September 28, 2020 at 12:54 pm #47985
Brianl, there’s plenty of room for you to think the way you do about Trump.
I think there are two things to think about concerning Trump relative to 4 more years. One is that philosophically, he represents the old line free thinking world we used to live in. Less regulation, less political correctness, etc., etc. This appeals to a lot of rural America.
The second point is that one can’t try to run the country the way he does. Clearly, he doesn’t bother to know much of anything about anything. Just do what feels good at the moment. I need not waste space going into detail, you know what has gone on in the first four years.
I’m torn between him being re-elected, and him not being re-elected. I long for the America I grew up in. I’m fed up with over regulation, political correctness, etc., etc. On the other hand, I question 4 more years of his nonsense and where we’ll stand at the end of that time if he is re-elected.
To further confuse the issue, think about where we’ll be down the road with Kamala Harris if Biden buys the farm during his term. She becomes POTUS and now we’ve got a screaming Califonria liberal running the country. Let’s see now, Trump for four more years shooting from the hip or a screaming California liberal qualifying for 8 more years. Barf. Which one will do the biggest distruction job on the American way of life!
I could care less about his taxes, his lies, his previous sexual behavior, I’m only interested in what actually happens to the country moving forward.September 28, 2020 at 1:12 pm #47986bookemdonoParticipant
Trump, without a freaking doubt.
Nowhere in your explanation did you even mention trump’s handling of COVID.
He KNEW how deadly it was in february yet didn’t take it seriously because it would hurt the economy and therefore his election chances. Does it not matter to you that over 200,000 fellow americans have died because trump did not take it seriously?? That alone should disqualify him for re-election and qualify him for crimes against humanity.
September 28, 2020 at 1:38 pm #47988
- This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by bookemdono.
No question, his pronouncements were totally stupid and uncalled for. Keep in mind, however, that nobody needed to follow them. There was plenty of good advice around from qualified individuals without taking cues from an unqualifed source such as Trump.September 28, 2020 at 1:41 pm #47989lastdayParticipant
If your fear of Kamala Harris is greater than your hatred of Trump, well, vote your conscience. Then try to sleep well for the next four years if your guy wins.September 28, 2020 at 1:45 pm #47990
Lastday, you called it right. That’s the dilemma, not only for me, but for many others.September 28, 2020 at 2:00 pm #47991Andy BrownParticipant
Deane: “ I could care less about his taxes, his lies, his previous sexual behavior, I’m only interested in what actually happens to the country moving forward.”
Unfortunately those two items are interconnected. All that debt makes him a major national security risk. Your choice boils down to continuing to support either a known negative or a perceived possible negative.
We all yearn for the old days at some point in our lives. The old days are gone and they aren’t returning. Neither is 45.September 28, 2020 at 2:07 pm #47992
You’re right, they are gone forever. But, we can desire to have them not get even worse.September 28, 2020 at 2:33 pm #47993bookemdonoParticipant
But had he taken it seriously from the beginning rather than saying “there are 15 cases and soon it’ll be down to zero” or “it’ll magically disappear” his followers would have been far more receptive to safety protocols, including wearing face coverings.
His “downplaying” of the pandemic caused the loss of lives in this country. He cried out for Obama to resign over 1 death during ebola. We’re over 200,000 and going up daily. Trump’s response borders on criminal.September 28, 2020 at 3:01 pm #47994Andy BrownParticipant
Precisely. So Deane, this about your fear of the liberal agenda. Even if ,la ascends to the throne, what makes you think she would be any different than any other president of either party since it is the US Congress that executes the agenda and controls the budget. The current POTUS would be near powerless without his enablers in the Senate (and previously the House for the first two years of his presidency). They are mostly going to be exiting the arena here shortly, too.
It underscores a theme I have promoted about why the government policies under Republicans post Reagan works great for folks with money (like you) and doesn’t work for the middle class (which is almost gone entirely) and the poor. If you want to know why there is such venom towards Republicans by 58% of Americans, read below. It pretty much shows how we got here. I’ve felt this way concerning the Telecom Reform Act of 1996 and how it destroyed radio broadcasting, but since the days of Bush 43, this phenomenon that Thom describes has found its way into many other industries. Have you heard about the impending layoffs at the airlines? If you’re strictly B2B, you might survive for a while but consumer spending is about to take a nosedive without further stimulus and the shit will hit the fan. Eventually even B2B will sink because without the consumption of goods and services at the retail end the entire chain collapses eventually. The GDP lost 30% last quarter, Deane. 30 fucking percent. That’s unheard of until now. Greed driven and killing people as a result.
The current situation was not conceived by drumpf. He’s just amplified it. There is a history to how we got here and it is summed up in the viewpoint that follows, written by ex-Portland radio guy Thom Hartmann and Independent Media Institute on July 17, 2020.
We have now reached peak Libertarianism, and this bizarre experiment that has been promoted by the billionaire class for over 40 years is literally killing us.
Back in the years before Reagan, a real estate lobbying group called the Foundation for Economic Education (FEE) came up with the idea of creating a political party to justify deregulating the real estate and finance industries so they could make more money. The party would give them ideological and political cover, and they developed an elaborate theology around it.
It was called the Libertarian Party, and their principal argument was that if everybody acted separately and independently, in all cases with maximum selfishness, that that would benefit society. There would be no government needed beyond an army and a police force, and a court system to defend the rights of property owners.
In 1980, billionaire David Koch ran for vice president on the newly formed Libertarian Party ticket. His platform was to privatize the Post Office, shut down all public schools, privatize Medicare and Medicaid, end food stamps and all other forms of “welfare,” deregulate all corporate oversight, and sell off much of the federal government’s land and other assets to billionaires and big corporations.
Since then, Libertarian billionaires and right-wing media have been working hard to get Americans to agree with Ronald Reagan’s statement from his first inaugural address that, “Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.”
And Trump is getting us there now.
Every federal agency of any consequence is now run by a lobbyist or former industry insider.
The Labor Department is trying to destroy organized labor; the Interior Department is selling off our public lands; the EPA is promoting deadly pesticides and allowing more and more pollution; the FCC is dancing to the tune of giant telecom companies; the Education Department is actively working to shut down and privatize our public school systems; the USDA is shutting down food inspections; the Defense Department is run by a former weapons lobbyist; even the IRS and Social Security agencies have been gutted, with tens of thousands of their employees offered early retirement or laid off so that very, very wealthy people are no longer being audited and the wait time for a Social Security disability claim is now over two years.
The guy Trump put in charge of the Post Office is actively destroying the Post Office, and the bonus for Trump might be that this will throw a huge monkey wrench in any effort to vote by mail in November.
Trump has removed the United States from the Paris Climate Agreement, and fossil fuel lobbyists now control America’s response to global warming.
Our nation’s response to the coronavirus has been turned over to private testing and drug companies, and the Trump administration refuses to implement any official government policy, with Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar saying that it’s all up to “individual responsibility.”
The result is more than 140,000 dead Americans and 3 million infected, with many fearing for their lives.
While the Libertarian ideas and policies promoted by that real estate lobbying group that invented the Libertarian Party have made CEOs and billionaire investors very, very rich, it’s killing the rest of us.
In the 1930s and 1940s, Franklin Delano Roosevelt put America back together after the Republican Great Depression and built the largest and wealthiest middle class in the history of the world at the time.
Now, 40 years of libertarian Reaganomics have gutted the middle class, made a handful of oligarchs wealthier than anybody in the history of the world, and brought an entire generation of hustlers and grifters into public office via the GOP.
When America was still coasting on FDR’s success in rebuilding our government and institutions, nobody took very seriously the crackpot efforts to tear it all down.
Now that they’ve had 40 years to make their project work, we’re hitting peak Libertarianism and it’s tearing our country apart, pitting Americans against each other, and literally killing hundreds of people every day.
If America is to survive as a functioning democratic republic, we must repudiate the “greed is good” ideology of Libertarianism, get billionaires and their money out of politics, and rebuild our civil institutions.
That starts with waking Americans up to the incredible damage that 40 years of libertarian Reaganism has done to this country.September 28, 2020 at 3:11 pm #47995BrianlParticipant
Deane: “I could care less about his taxes, his lies, his previous sexual behavior, I’m only interested in what actually happens to the country moving forward.”
That is also my main concern. I AM concerned about his taxes, from the standpoint where I believe that it should be a law for ten years’ tax records for ALL federally elected public officials to be public, but the main thing is that Trump truly feels he is above the law. From what is being reported (and I agree that it should be made public for all to see), there’s some illegal shit in there. If you or I were to do that, we’d be looking at federal time. Our elected officials should be held to HIGHER standards, if anything, not the standard that they are above the law. Lead by example, that is my #1 rule of leadership.
My biggest concern is Trump’s complete disdain for the Constitution of the United States of America. He doesn’t give a crap about checks and balances, the separation of powers, the right to vote … he is setting the table for our democracy to end. That is the only way to see it. He has been asked, repeatedly, if he will honor the wishes of the people and cede power, peacefully, to Biden, and he refuses to answer. His non-answers and dancing around the subject IS the answer – no, he won’t. He is defunding the USPS to cover for his battle cry that vote by mail is fraudulent and cannot be relied on, despite the mountain of evidence that shows there is literally NO voter fraud in the states that do it. Hell, he himself has voted by mail the last few times, but it’s not okay for the rest of us?
He has also mounted a call to arms, for armed militias to fight for him to remain in power if he loses. This doesn’t concern you? HE IS CALLING FOR CIVIL WAR!
This doesn’t include the over 200,000 deaths on his watch because of his blatant, intentional mishandling of the pandemic.
I completely understand you want things how they were. That’s the conservative mantra. I don’t agree with it, but I respect it. If Trump weasels his way back into office despite losing the election, nothing will ever be the same again because our vote, our democracy, our constitution, will be null and void. They will be finished.September 28, 2020 at 4:01 pm #47998radiogeekParticipant
Broken Record Deane seems to be stuck on the crazy idea that Harris is a flaming liberal.
It’s the last resort of desperate folks, to make up shit and try to turn the conversation.
I don’t know if you were paying attention, but the “flaming liberals” in the primaries flamed out (much to the chagrin of the Bernie Bots) and what survived the process are the folks who are solidly in the middle.
Bill Clinton was a centrist who gave the GOP nearly everything. Obama was a fiscal hawk who put our finances back into order after the chaos of 2008, only to see Trump fuck the economy again. “Obamacare” is really Romneycare, where the best part, a public option was dropped so it could get through GOP objections in Congress. Richard Nixon, while he was a paranoid crook signed into law the EPA, workers rights, eventually ended the Vietnam War, and while it didn’t turn out as imagined opened up the relationship with China. Some of our best legacy in law here in Oregon is because of Republican centrists like Hatfield and Packwood (ouch).
Biden/Harris is a move to the center, not crazy left. If you oppose their leadership you must have some emotional baggage that makes you want crazy destruction instead of good governance.
EdSeptember 28, 2020 at 5:25 pm #48000
Ed, if she’s not a flaming liberal, what is she politically?
Let’s see now what she’s known to favor:
Busing of students and forced desegregation!
Government paid tuition for college students with parents with incomes of less than $125,000!
Opposes the death penatly!
Charge parants as criminals if their children are truant!
Supports gun control!
Supports sanctuary cities!
It goes on and on. Doesn’t seem very moderate to me.September 28, 2020 at 5:58 pm #48002lastdayParticipant
This isn’t 1955 any more. Gotta keep moving forward. 🙂September 29, 2020 at 12:37 am #48009semoochieParticipant
How many liberal prosecutors do you know?September 29, 2020 at 2:13 am #48012BrianlParticipant
Deane, wow. Just wow.
You make her sound like she’s the second coming of Marx and Engels. She’s not.
The ideas you listed aren’t “flaming liberal”, they’re common freakin’ sense.
This isn’t 1955.
Do you REALLY want to go back to Jim Crow laws?
Holy hell. You’re better than this.
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