Why Bernie is unelectable

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  • #44450
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    When confronted with how much it will cost for Medicare for All, he had no answer. Well, maybe not, but his clearest answer was you will lose your private insurance and taxes on the middle class will go up. Most likely more than what you pay for your insurance today. But no guarantees but trust us!

    Read the disastrous transcript here: https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-2020/index.html

    Then there’s the comments on Cuba.

    A Democratic Socialist standing up for Cuba? Not a good look. I can already imagine the attack ads. Communist, Socialist, raise your taxes, take away your healthcare.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/24/bernie-sanders-cuban-revolution-117279

    #44452
    paulwalker
    Participant

    Again, Sanders winning the dem nomination is a clear path to 2nd Trump term. Too bad the Democratic Party is such a mess. I hate to say it but Bloomberg is the only hope now.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by paulwalker.
    #44454
    mwdxer1
    Participant

    That is true…However, as he states, we are the only country without decent health care for many Americans. Also we spend 3/4 of a Trillion dollars for a military that we do not need. As a country we waste so much money and stick in our nose everywhere in this World and wonder why we are hated. Backing crooked governments, and all. If we used half of the military budget, we could a lot to help many in this country with raising taxes. But of course that will never happen. But that is only one way to achieve a good result in helping Americans.

    #44457
    Deane Johnson
    Participant

    If Bernie hits the main stream as the candidate, people will begin to realize he’s a left over hippie from the 60’s who never mentally progressed beyond that era. All he did was get older and louder.

    I don’t think the country is quite ready for a reincarnation of the Age of Aquarius.

    #44459
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Bloomberg has nowhere to go against Trump.

    His policy sucks, meaning people are not going to be excited about Bloomberg at all, and his personality is kind of like a wet paper towel. Any debate? Trump will win, make Bloomberg out as the stick up his ass prick that he is.

    #44460
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Bernie is not a leftover hippie from the 60s.

    A clear majority this country wants to deal with Healthcare, and free at the point of service medicare-for-all is a total winner. Across the board.

    Voters, from the Bernie point of view, breakdown like this:

    Establishment corporate Elites. These people hate Bernie, and Bernie hates him right back. Not going to happen. And these people are a very small fraction of the population.

    There’s the Democratic base, the vast majority of whom are going to vote for the Democrat, because that’s what they do, also because Trump.

    And then there’s what I will call the gettable votes. Indy’s, irregular or no voters, and some Republicans poor struggling right now.

    Even the racists, bigots and theocrats need and want to see the doctor. You really should not underestimate just how potent that policy position really is. We got a good look at it in Nevada, where The Culinary Union leaders went against Bernie, but the rank-and-file went for Bernie, in public fashion because it’s a caucus, and did so because they want their relatives and friends to get the same Healthcare they get. Powerful stuff. I suspect that’s going to resonate very strongly among the growing minority and people of color population in this country.

    Bernie’s campaign is aimed right at the gettable votes. And he’s getting a whole lot of them. And Bernie has the ground game right now ready to go and working, to go approach those people.

    Bernie campaign people have been in Super Tuesday States for a while now. Just announced efforts include most other States. The other campaigns, with the exception of Trump are trying to figure out how to fund and reach Super Tuesday states they think they can perform in.

    While they are watching for results, the Bernie people will be rolling out nation wide and have been in key States almost the whole time.

    Nobody else on that stage has anything even close.

    And as far as the debates go?

    Bernie will make Trump look like the shallow troll and Carnival Barker that he is. Bernie has spent the last few years making meaningful entirely truthful statements about Trump that are going to resonate.

    Go down the list of people, to see who Trump has an advantage on when it comes to debates:

    I already talked about Mike. End of story.

    He’ll take all of Liz’s failed over-inflated virtue arguments, take her off script, and she’ll be standing there deer in headlights style. Not good.

    Mayor Pete is a weasel, full of platitudes, and is currently copying people, most recent examples being Obama voice, and the Bernie hand gestures. And minorities hate Pete.

    Biden recently just mentioned that he was running for Senate in South Carolina. By the time he gets to debating with Trump he might forget he’s running. There is something wrong with Joe. It’s becoming extremely obvious. Joe has the moxie to do Trump in a debate, given he can remember he is there.

    Klobuchar actually might have a little Moxie against Trump in the debate too. Her particular style makes her a little bit impervious to his bullshit, but she’s not exciting at all.

    In terms of the organization, and ground game, Trump has a pretty good one. He’s kind of a stupid idiot, but he has got good people working for him, and they’re using Advanced Techniques to Garner votes. Bernie is the only other one doing that, and at similar scale, with Bernie’s overall game being larger than trumps anyway.

    Any of you have friends or family who are black? I suggest you ask them about these candidates. It’s not pretty, except for Bernie. And Joe, but there’s something wrong with Joe, and it’s going to come out.

    And just yesterday on Twitter, Peter daou made a great point. During the Clinton campaign, he worked for an organization whose sole purpose was to fuck Bernie over. His own organization that he founded.

    He vetted the living shit out of Bernie. Now he’s in the Bernie camp, and a part of that is his complete fail to actually find anything that would resonate. The larger part of that is being very excited about the policy, and its impact on voters.

    Conflating Dem leadership and the major media with voters is the big disconnect here.

    Anyway just a few thoughts. You guys thinking that Bloomberg is the savior are high in my opinion. And that’s okay it’s legal here in Oregon. I might join you for the entertainment.

    #44461
    Deane Johnson
    Participant

    I doubt Bloomberg has much of a chance against Trump, or for that matter even much of a chance for the nomination.

    I think there are a number of obstacles for him. One is the attempt to buy the election that’s going on right now. Then after that,some of his baggage starts coming to the surface. Nothing drastic that I know of, but it all adds together.

    There’s one additional thing that might be against him with some people. That’s the fact he’s from New York City, Jewish, and rich. There will be a certain number of voters who are not warm towards that combination. I think New Yorkers of any background have an uphill battle with some New York outsiders. Trump is an exception. He is so dynamically noisy, they never mentally get to the “New York” part. There’s significant “other” with Trump to base one’s opinions on.

    #44468
    missing_kskd
    Participant
    #44469
    Deane Johnson
    Participant

    Missing your analysis of Bernie’s opposition is reasonably accurate, IMO. That’s been part of the reason for the Democrats jumping around on supporting candidates so much. They can’t find anyone they want.

    Bernie is doing what he’s doing vote wise mostly because he’s got a grassroots organization that’s whipping the young and politically naive into a frenzy. Good for him. Well organized campaigns have always been formidable. The first one I remember in my lifetime was JFK.

    I will give you a couple of things. Bernie is very good at articulating his position. Better then most anyone else running. And, I’ll also say that the man is one of the hardest working of the bunch at campaigning, especially when you consider his age. He didn’t even slow up for his heart attack.

    BTW, has Bernie ever had a job?

    #44470
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Dem leaders and donors can’t find anyone who can win.

    They would take anyone but Bernie.

    The bench is empty.

    The voters should not be conflated with a loud elite class.

    The majority of them want Trump out and a brighter future and plausible policy to get them there. True also for more Republicans than anyone would care to discuss right now.

    Bernie has excellent alignment in these basics. Most potent challenger on the stage right now.

    Just thinking Clinton costs 20 points in the polls.

    #44471
    Deane Johnson
    Participant

    The one thing you want to forget is that he has a history of being a Communist sympathieser. I know you’ve read enough to know about his past. Oops, maybe not so past given his recent comments on Fidel Castro. Maybe he’s not so good at masking his true feelings as we thought.

    I don’t want to live in a socialist world. I don’t want to be successful and have my money taken from me by the government and buying health care for the poor. That’s not my job in life.

    As they say about socialism, it’s OK until you run out of the other guys money.

    #44472
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Obama made similar comments, there’s nothing wrong with factually relating history to people.

    And there’s nothing communist in any of the agenda. There never has been.

    Really, all we’re doing is catching up to the rest of the developed world, and when we do that we’re going to be more competitive it’ll be a lot less hassle to exist here on this planet.

    And you live in a socialist world right now.

    Bernie calls it Democratic socialism for good reason. Nobody wants to socialize the whole thing, that’s a mess. And we lose the very real benefits and beauty of capitalism.

    You know I’m a capitalist, I know how to make money, love to do it, and it’s beautiful when happens.

    Here’s what I know, and that is if we get most of this agenda done reasonably? It’ll be easier to make money!

    #44473
    Deane Johnson
    Participant

    Tonight’s debate should be interesting, only in the sense that it could have a fair amount of influence on the direction this all takes.

    It’s time Warren and Biden excused themselves and departed. They have nothing left to offer, they’re only taking up time and space. I look at Biden on stage and think to myself, why doesn’t someone help him to a chair so he can catch his breath.

    Buttigieg is playing in a sand box he’s not ready for. He needs a decade in Congress in order to have any credentials. Mayor of Fort Wayne, or wherever it was, doesn’t count for much.

    Steyer shouldn’t even be there. He’s spent a ton of money and been around for some time now and people are just looking at him and saying “who’s that guy”.

    All eyes will be on Bernie and Bloomberg. Bloomberg will either hit a home run tonight, or all his money won’t buy him anything much in the future.

    #44474
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    They’re all going to pile on Bernie super hard. Should be exciting times. Enjoy.

    I think you’re right about the dropouts. The Democratic party establishment really needs a clear alternative to Bernie if they’re going to go ahead and run against Bernie. Having this Big Field helps Bernie frankly.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by missing_kskd.
    #44476
    edselehr
    Participant

    No one’s going to step aside to make room for Bloomberg unless they run out of money. Everyone else left standing resents that Bloomberg bought his way onto that stage, and will not cede to him easily.

    In fact, I think everyone is staying put until Super Tuesday – only then will the real parsing begin. Biden is sticking around because he still can’t believe he isn’t at the top of the pack. Warren is sticking around because she hopes to pick up voters who like Bernie’s ideas but can’t vote for a “socialist” (and if anything takes Bernie out of the running for any reason, she is ready to scoop up his supporters). Pete has some big money donors that are going to stick with him for awhile. Steyer and Klobuchar don’t seem to have much life left in them, and *might* bow out after tonight – but again, why not wait until next Tuesday?

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