December 17, 2020 at 3:24 pm #49098BrianlParticipant
“Some Doctors are now saying it’s better to get covid and then get the anti-bodies than taking the vaccine…more “healthy” ?”
And some doctors, like that quack down near Salem that got shut down, don’t believe that social distancing, wearing a mask, and washing your hands help stop the spread of COVID.
I’ll take my cues from Dr. Fauci and the scientists.
I’m interested in seeing how quick the vaccines make a difference. It just sucks that people aren’t taking this more seriously.December 17, 2020 at 4:04 pm #49099
Broadway: “Some Doctors are now saying it’s better to get covid and then get the anti-bodies than taking the vaccine…more “healthy” ?”
Yeah, 300,000+ dead Americans think that’s bullshit. Try suggesting this quack nonsense to their families or to some exhausted nurses working in the Covid wards and see what kind of polite response you get.December 17, 2020 at 4:30 pm #49100Andy BrownParticipant
Sweden tried that. It failed.December 17, 2020 at 6:04 pm #49101lastdayParticipant
“Some doctors say…”
ROTFLMAO. Yes, please ask Sweden how that worked out.
CDC has reduced the allocation of Pfizer vaccine to OR and WA by 40% for no apparent reason.
CBS News reported tonight that Pfizer has millions of vials of vaccine in storage because nobody (presumably CDC) will tell them where to ship it.December 17, 2020 at 8:43 pm #49102Chris_TaylorParticipant
I play in a band that has 3 doctors, a nurse and medical support staff. I have a neighbor who works as a nurse at Providence Portland and a high school friend who is a former EMT, firefighter and now works as a nurse at OHSU.
One of the doctors in my band along with another band member who understands the nuts and bolts of infrastructure in handling medical emergencies in such cases, have been on a local board and committee advising our local government officials and health authorities with updated data about addressing the ongoing Covid issue.
News out of California – There are no more ICUs available for patients. That’s zero percent, nada, no-can-take. You get sick, you have no where to go to get help especially if you are sick enough that you need to be hospitalized.
Really, Dan, you’re smarter than this and should know better.December 18, 2020 at 6:49 am #49105
Death rates from COVID-19 so far has varied from country to country, but seems to average between 2 and 3 percent in the developed world, and is as high as 9 percent in Mexico.
I’m confident the disparity has to do with quality of health care. As our hosptials fill up, and we don’t flatten the infection curve, our rates will no doubt go up to be more like the third world if we can’t deliver high quality care.
But, if we assume that folks don’t vaccinate, and this runs it’s course, perhaps 2 percent of the population here will die. That’s about 6 million. Another Holocaust. And we’re not counting the millions more of “long termers” with unknown lingering symptoms that make them disabled, and we’re not counting the effect on the economy from having this linger for several more years.
And that’s not paying attention to the rest of the world.
Yeah, sure. We’d be a lot better off letting this run it’s course and not getting a jab. Sounds like personal freedom.
I do have to say, if we kill off a significant number of the human race, and destroy our economies by ignoring the threat and listening to quack experts, in the long run this plan might help global warming a bit. After all, we humans are destroying the planet so fewer of us might be helpful.
EdDecember 18, 2020 at 9:31 am #49106
A more common sense explanation for varying death rate is that number of reported cases. The CDC did a study in September based on antibody tests suggesting that there were 8X more Covid cases in the US (at that time) than had been reported. Not everyone is tested even when they get symptoms (e.g. my brother almost certainly had Covid in February – he was very sick but never got tested), and there is a large percentage of asymptomatic cases that are mostly never tested.
So the “death rate” depends on several things but one is clearly how many people are actually tested in each country. If there are 8X more people with Covid than reported in the numbers, then the death rate would be much lower than reported.December 18, 2020 at 11:23 am #49107
OK Andrew, the website I looked at was John Hopkins U of Medicine.
Yes, my mistake on the earlier post, the % was of tests, but the same website reports deaths per 100,000 of population tested or not (so far the US is approaching 100/100K) so that still translates to potential of at least 3 million dead.
I’m sure that’s reassuring. Keep in mind, this is the death rate per 100,000 since the pandemic began, so if we are stupid and reject the jab then the rate per 100K will of course rise as over time more of each 100K are infected … so it will end up 6 million or more either way.
Hmmm. Edit. We currently have 300K deaths? The numbers don’t line up. Some more reading to do.
Edit 2. OK, a decimal error. 300K so far lines up with the death rate.
a) Still, this death rate will go up the longer this goes on, so perhaps we aim at another 300-400K dead doing nothing, or even more!
b) We’re doing horribly. Australia has 3.6 per 100k, we have 95 per 100K. Japan 2.1, Singapore 0.5.
We’re almost no 1! Go USA!
EdDecember 18, 2020 at 1:54 pm #49111Andy BrownParticipant
Setting the numbers aside for the moment and looking at the reason for the degree of peril facing every American, we have been led to this place by the worst president and most inept and corrupt administration in our history. Now the CDC under drumpf’s leadership has cut distribution of the vaccine to blue states.December 18, 2020 at 2:02 pm #49112
Speaking of being fucked by this administration …
If you’re a small business owner like me who took a PPP loan, press reports today state that Mnuchin is insisting that the bill currently being worked on will once again make PPP loans taxable (by denying the tax deductibility of the things paid for) even though a bipartisan group has lobbied him that the intent of Congress was that forgiveness would not be taxable.
In addition, they are supposedly talking about forcing the tax bill onto the 2020 returns rather than in the year the income is realized (if ever). So … do your company books show enough tax payments on file to cover the entire PPP loan as taxable in 2020, even though you haven’t applied yet?
This alone is enough to put many small business out of business.
EdDecember 18, 2020 at 2:54 pm #49114
Ed, the John Hopkins only shows actual cases confirmed by tests. As I said, the CDC study from September suggested the number of infected people has been underreported by 8X. E.g. in September, when there were only 6.9M confirmed Covid cases, they estimate there were really about 52.9M cases total.
If that multiplier is still true today, when we have about 17.8M cases documented, the real number may be around 140M Covid cases in the US (population 320M).
Some say the death rate is undercounted too – maybe not by anything close to 8X though. But that means that the death rate is really much lower than you get by comparing documented cases with documented deaths. If there are really 400K Covid deaths including some not reported in official counts and 140M cases, then the real death rate is something like 0.2%.December 19, 2020 at 9:22 am #49117edselehrParticipant
I wonder if there is a “hospitalized” v. “unhospitalized” death rate? When this all started back in January, the death rate was reported as about 1-2%. If it’s lower today, is it because of improved care protocols, or that we miscalculated the original rate? And if death rates are lower because of the care the infected get in hospitals, then what happens if we hit ICU saturation, and hospital care quality decreases?December 19, 2020 at 12:00 pm #49118
Well, we aren’t ever going to know the real death rate without an accurate count of infections (and deaths), right? And the death rate is going to vary by things like age. I’ll bet in some countries (e.g. Scandinavian countries with more homogeneous populations and universal health care systems) it would be easier to get a more accurate death rate.
All I was saying above is that the death rate is probably a lot lower in the US than you get considering only the documented Covid cases. And I worry almost as much about surviving but getting “Long-haul Covid” – so I’m not trying to minimize fear of the virus, either.December 19, 2020 at 12:14 pm #49119edselehrParticipant
You bring up a point that needs to be repeated; COVID-19 is debilitating as well as deadly.
I don’t know how many people died from polio, but what we DO remember are all of the people crippled by it. I wonder how society is going to deal with the aftereffects of COVID and the aftereffects of COVID vaccine reactions.December 19, 2020 at 4:18 pm #49120
I’ve not heard of any long-term effects from the Covid vaccines – just short-term reactions that people get over. A few people have had allergic reactions – maybe to the polyethylene glycol used in the vaccines.
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