Trump asks Ukrainian president to help Giuliani w/ investigation of Biden's son

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This topic contains 69 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  Andy Brown 3 weeks, 3 days ago.

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  • #42513

    Andrew
    Participant

    Add another scandal to the list of “If Obama had done this, he would have been impeached that weekend” scandals that Trump will get away with. At least while he’s president. Maybe he can still be charged after he leaves office.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/20/20875221/whistleblower-ukraine-trump-biden-military-aid

    #42516

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    It’s a new low every single day.

    And every single day, Trump is putting right wing judges into lifetime appointments.

    At what point will Trump finally step in it? Is this it? It should be, but the GOP will continue to look the other way.

    #42517

    edselehr
    Participant

    If wonder if those 85,000 voters in those four key states that put Trump over the top will be reflective enough to realize exactly what they did.

    #42527

    Andrew
    Participant

    Naturally, Republicans are responding to Trump’s Ukraine initiative by calling for an investigation of Biden – e.g. Lindsey Graham. Would be like calling for an investigation of the DNC after the Watergate break-in in 1972.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/sep/22/lindsey-graham-calls-biden-ukraine-justice-departm/

    #42552

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    News is coming out tonight that Trump halted aid a week before his conversation with Ukraine. With what we know now it’s pretty clear this was a quid pro quo effort by Trump. And certainly not his first.

    I’m thinking Trump may have stepped into it on this one. Some say he got too sloppy and too arrogant and too emboldened.

    I was against impeachment prior to this but I’m more open to it now as I think it may be a duty Democrats have to pursue even if the Senate won’t convict.

    Republican Senators must be shitting their pants right about now.

    #42553

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Don’t blame them!

    Blame the one who LOST HER ASS TO A CARNIVAL BARKER. Hubris.

    Going forward, don’t expect votes from people who get shit on, ignored, told they aren’t important, etc…

    “they” didn’t do anything wrong.

    It’s wrong to expect votes from people. Those need to be earned, and she was above doing that. Not POTUS material.

    Trump sucks, but blaming ordinary people for him being in office isn’t going to be helpful. And it’s likely to see him there again too.

    #42555

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    You helped elect Trump so go fuck yourself. Your sack as been bruised and battered by Trump. Hillary would be 1000% better. But no, you choose to lose.

    And you appear to be on track to do the same in 2020, which is sad but exactly what Trump hopes you’ll engage in.

    Bernie Bros for Trump 2020. That’s your current slogan.

    Loser! Sad!

    #42557

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    The hell it has! Right now, progressive politics are on an awesome upswing. Never been better.

    Here’s the choice you face:

    Either actually give a shit about ALL Americans, or it’s extremely likely you get more Trump.

    Those votes are needed. Best get behind those things those voters really care about. Or, don’t expect the votes.

    Pick.

    #42560

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    No. The choice I face is four more years of Trump or a Democrat. You appear to be willing to accept 4 more years of Trump. I’m not.

    And, go fuck yourself for acting like such an asshole!

    #42561

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Pick

    #42565

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Oh, and just because why the fuck not?

    This isn’t just me.

    Pay attention: Very large and growing numbers of Americans have had enough Dem party bullshit.

    If you want to know what this is all about, it’s that. Party bullshit.

    Failure to perform economically, despite considerable social progress, just is not good enough. Why?

    Well, it tends to force really ugly choices:

    Say, feeding the kids being a priority over whether anyone can use a bathroom.

    Or maybe, paying rent being a priority over seeing a doctor about that strange lump.

    That’s why.

    And when any of you call me an asshole, when any of you say “Defeating Trump is all that matters”, what you are really saying is:

    People struggling don’t matter. People dying does not matter. The world burning does not matter.

    I don’t fucking matter. (frankly, and I know I do)

    Now, you get to do that. And it’s all good. Trust me when I say it’s not a bother, just sad.

    But, doing that and then somehow expecting people to vote in a way you find favorable? Seriously?

    Blaming them for Trump after basically telling them it’s all their fault for being in a struggle anyway? Are you high?

    I very strongly suggest you wake the fuck right up and ask yourself some very basic questions:

    Just what is worth what here?

    And what have you got to lose? Whatever it is, know that plenty of Americans are already there! And you could be.

    Worse?

    “Those other people” you are trying to blame? They don’t have to care. In fact, many of them will care about you exactly as much as you care about them. Think about it.

    Telling people they are not a priority, that they are not worth consideration, while at the same time telling them they have some duty to vote to coddle your addled asses?

    Nobody with even a small measure of self-respect would take that kind of shit, and large, growing numbers of them aren’t. Worse, they know they just don’t have to. All truth. Painful truth!

    And that’s why she lost. She didn’t do the work. She didn’t actually give a shit, or at the very least, she could have done what Trump did, and lie her ass off to sell the people on the idea she does.

    Didn’t even do the sell job guys. Never mind actually giving a shit. I know that’s too big of a stretch for the wealthy party elites, but not even doing the sell job?

    Come on! That’s what the party leaders DO. That’s what they are there for right now.

    She just didn’t do the work. Ran a hubris campaign as if!

    And at that time, it was less than 100K that could make the difference. She was in CA, running up the pop vote totals, sending cardboard –fucking cardboard cutouts to the people who she needed to vote so she could win.

    Now, it’s a lot more ugly than that. 100K is off the table now. It’s a lot more. Think about people aging in, while people like us are aging out. The trends absolutely favor Berners, and they do not favor the party as it has failed to perform for the last 4 or so decades.

    And they want, and really need shit. Basic, reasonable, human things that most of the modern world gets right, while we drop bombs, let our infrastructure rot, and tell people we can’t afford anything else! Not OK. That’s not sustainable and way too damn many know it.

    They want to matter too. They want their struggle to mean something more than, “just vote and we will get to you maybe, someday, later on.”

    That is why I said:

    PICK

    That’s the choice. Democracy in action. Our party didn’t do the minimum to placate the people.

    And so now here we are dealing with pissed off people, who really don’t have to hear a fucking word you say. And when you are basically doing the same damn thing Clinton did, trust me when I say you won’t be heard. At. All.

    They sure as fuck don’t have to vote, and won’t, unless there is something meaningful in that vote for them.

    Yes! Hello! That could, and likely will be given this kind of conversation going on, mean more Trump. And that’s terrible. Cry me a river. Until you actually find your soul, that part somewhere down deep that’s a reasonable human, and can give an actual shit about your fellow countrymen, Trump is what we are likely to get stuck with.

    Know what they are going to say about that?

    Good, maybe you can struggle too. Maybe you too can feel the pain for a while.

    Then maybe we can talk about what makes sense for ALL Americans, not just a minority thinking somehow they deserve better while a majority can fuck right off.

    And guess what? They get to do that too. Same as me.

    Yeah I know. Bash the messenger. Feel free. You all know I can take it and laugh. (and I do, along with sometimes sharing exchanges like this for educational value)

    Also know I’m not wrong on this. There are choices we are facing, and the people making it about policy have position and solid standing to do what they are doing too.

    What are they doing?

    Forcing the choice, because absolutely nothing else has worked.

    And they are desperate now. Need something to work. Raw human pain and suffering lies at the root of all this. Doesn’t go away. Can’t be ignored. Can’t be lived with.

    Know that. It is the truth.

    Ask yourself what entitles you to live reasonably, while others are told they can fuck right off proper?

    It better be good, or Trump.

    Or maybe, just maybe, you could give a shit. Like you asked them to do for you?

    PICK

    #42567

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Just for shits and giggles, I took the very best said here. In the last year, I’ve been all over the country. Tons of States. Left, middle, right. Worked it, just because that’s the kind of thing I do, and you all know that.

    Fell flat. Was not heard.

    Right now, if you paid me big bucks, I can’t sell that shit to the growing number of Americans struggling right now, who want change. That’s true for the party message right now too.

    “Because Trump” and “It’s a little better” works with a fair number of people. Don’t get me wrong. But, it’s not gonna work with enough Americans to matter, and that’s why we’ve got ugly choices in play that we didn’t have before.

    So I’m not gonna bother. Can’t. Fact is there are a ton of people WAY worse off than any of us are, and too many of them have had it with that shit.

    Frankly, I don’t think any of the big money candidates can get that sell job done. It is all about the constraints big money donors bring to things, along with the basic neoliberal bent the party leadership has right now. Those economics just do not perform well enough for our people, and we are not the only nation struggling with it today too.

    That includes Warren. She means well. I like her. I will vote for her, but it’s not gonna matter, because she’s still extremely likely to lose. Could win, maybe, but doing that is ultra high risk.

    I wrote why.

    And I want to win, otherwise I would not even bother. I have every other fucking thing in the world to do. And I want it actually better instead of as bad as it can get, and not a return to sort of bad, like we had before.

    And if we lose again?

    That’s precisely what I am going to do too. Take the fam, execute some plans I’ve got to weather a long, ugly storm, and be happy as I can with me and mine. Do every other thing in the world besides care, because why bother?

    If that shit is how the nation goes, fine. I know what to do with that, and just will.

    Just putting it all on the table raw. So we are ultra clear on all this and why it is the way it is.

    #42572

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    You’re an unhinged idiot. I can’t wait to see Bernie lose and watch you babies pee on your own pillows.

    #42573

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    That’s not really a meaningful contribution, and you know that.

    (Edit: And on the list. Yes, I keep one. You haven’t done anything new on that front for a while.)

    Hubris, it’s a thing. Clearly.

    Had you read it, you would know what I’m going to do. And it’s fine, as I have plans either way.

    Bernie losing won’t be the end of the world. Even another 4 of Trump won’t be the end of the world. But, it’s gonna be rough, no doubt.

    Not an outcome I want to see happen.

    You also didn’t read earlier, or keep forgetting, or just don’t process it well yet, but whether Bernie gets the nom or not has no real impact on the progressive policy push.

    It’s ultra nice if he can become POTUS. Can pick a cabinet, and some options become more effective, shorter term. But, if not, the current plan is the running plan for the future.

    For most people landing where I have on all this, there really isn’t a go back and okie dokie on the party at this point. Economically, that’s a failure. Needs reform.

    I’m afraid you will be major league disappointed. It’s not going to play out how you envision. Sorry man.

    The difference for me, is this:

    With a Dem having won, stay active on either the Bernie as POTUS plan (and yes, he’s a Dem, despite the propaganda stating otherwise), or the current Bernie not POTUS plan, no worries. Either is fine. Either will advance things, and it’s mostly about the timeline.

    With another Trump 4, I will dial back my activity some, and settle in for a rougher ride. Will have to get through that mess as a priority, and that means taking really good care of me and mine. Yeah, selfish I know, but really, it’s OK as I will be caring just about as much as others appear to. On that path, just dig in and wait some to see what opportunities make sense.

    It’s amazing to me just how committed you are to a very selfish and uncaring frame.

    Might as well just say FUCK THE POORS. Go ahead. It would be honest at least. I won’t mind.

    One could argue, and I just did, that trying to assign blame to people in the fashion you and many others are, is just as uninformed, and unhinged as it comes.

    You really expect people to respond favorably, when you shit on them like that? Dude, it’s really ugly. Nobody deserves all of that. NOBODY.

    I know you would not personally, so how is that supposed to work for others?

    Asking for a friend.

    😀

    #42575

    paulwalker
    Participant

    Another classic battle between Missing and Vit! Kind of like rubbernecking a car accident. “Good Radio”, as those of us from the other side sometimes say. However, this may represent exactly what is wrong with the democratic party today and may cost them in 2020.

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