October 11, 2014 at 8:13 pm #2719
“Unfortunately, because the new carriers are closer to the analog signal, and we are feeding the analog and digital with separate transmission chains, the HD3 carriers are very susceptible to getting stepped on by the analog signal.” I think this is what is happening with KFBW-HD3. I turned on my table radio and was surprised that the station kept cutting out. I raised the antenna and that seemed to help but there were still short bursts, where it would cut out. I’m in a little bit of a hole and thought that might be the problem. Shortly after that, I drove to work and it actually got worse! I haven’t had trouble with dropouts for about a decade. I noticed that I was losing signal lock but only on the HD3. I didn’t even know that was possible. Normally, when I drive out of the area, both HD1 and 2 channels seem to go out at the same time. There must have been around a hundred dropouts, on my way to work, including the top of the Fremont Bridge, where I was staring at the antenna! This is not conducive to continued listening by the general public or anyone else. I hope the problem is something like a bad connection and can be easily fixed. Otherwise, something is radically wrong! If the problem is related to the law of physics, perhaps they need to drop down to 12kbps, instead of 24. It doesn’t sound as good but at least, it’s consistent. The translator sounds fine.October 11, 2014 at 8:32 pm #2720jr_techParticipant
The “robustness” of the HD carriers added in “MP3” HD service mode is also less than that of MP1 carriers. I believe they get more bits per kHz for the program material by reducing the number of bits employed for error correction.October 11, 2014 at 9:24 pm #2721msndrspdxParticipant
I watched the videos posted above from the new NYC and Philly Me-TV outlets. The transmitter for the NYC station is at 4 Times Square in Manhattan, which was used as a temporary site by WNBC after Nine/11 and they have a low power fillin and a backup full power transmitter on that tower today according to my understanding. They have a nice view of Times Square from the roof!
I also noticed that when both of these stations started, they went from Testcard right into network programs already in progress. No station ID or signon announcement! (Maybe they did signon announcements at the next commercial break, which we didn’t get to see.) interesting nonetheless!
Best, Mike 8)October 18, 2014 at 8:58 am #2722
On October 11th, I posted about a plethora of dropouts on KFBW-HD3. I got to thinking that if the problem is related to the system itself(increasing well beyond 96kbps), it might show up on KKCW-HD3 also but I thought that since they were running more power, it might not be as bad or not be a problem at all. I listened and would have to say that it’s just as bad. It’s still possible that since both stations are co-owned and sharing the same antenna, that it wasn’t engineered correctly on either station but I think it’s more likely that the expanded bandwidth is the problem. If so, this should never have gained traction, in the first place!October 18, 2014 at 4:41 pm #2723jr_techParticipant
“I think it’s more likely that the expanded bandwidth is the problem”
My tuner reports that both stations are operating now in service mode “MP3″…. see table 8 (page 11) of the Ibiquity white paper that I linked above. The additional 24 Kbs data stream added by employing “MP3” mode is less “robust” than the 98 kbs that service mode “MP1” provides.October 18, 2014 at 5:50 pm #2724Matt JonesParticipant
Semoochie, see chrisweiss post on page 3 of this thread. It’s the 3rd post from the bottom of the page, dated October 10th. It explains the issue to which you refer.October 18, 2014 at 6:55 pm #2725
Thank you Matt. Yes, my October 11th post quotes that of Chris Weiss and responds to it. If it’s the fault of the system itself, not the setup, I stand by my idea that the HD3 should be reduced to 12kbps, if that’s the only way to avoid incessant dropouts, even if the quality of the audio suffers. My concern is that the average person will hear the dropouts and think the whole HD Radio system is like that!October 18, 2014 at 8:34 pm #2726e_dawgParticipant
Speaking of translators if it wasn’t for the lpfm priority. Will we have 96.7, and 100.7 on the air? Also will 97.5 and 105.5 will be able to move to west hills?October 18, 2014 at 8:58 pm #2727itsvernParticipant
I got an Insignia Armband portable HD receiver at Goodwill. I actually get IHearrtMedia’s HD Channels in McMinnville. I only get 105.9 in mono.
I heard the Trailblazers on 100.3 hd2 and after the game Radio 102.3 returned. I also get hd on 103.3 and heard Smooth Jazz. It’s nice to have more formats to listen to!October 18, 2014 at 9:39 pm #2728Andy BrownParticipant
“Speaking of translators if it wasn’t for the lpfm priority. Will we have 96.7, and 100.7 on the air? Also will 97.5 and 105.5 will be able to move to west hills?”
Not sure what your first question is, but 96.7 will be coming on the air in two locations. CP’s for two new LPFM’s are issued for Bull Mt. and Rocky Butte.
Bull Mt. is OPAL ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE OREGON
Rocky Butte is COMMUNITY ALLIANCE OF TENANTS
100.7 is still in a six way MX logjam with no apparent movement towards a time share and last time I checked a few weeks ago, no petitions to try and have competitors thrown out had been filed either.
An LPFM on 97.5 has been granted to Rusted Sprocket in Vancouver moved from 106.3 because of probable interference from KLOO in Corvallis. It is also limited to moving 5.6 km from its original filling location and couldn’t be in the West Hills anyway because of a translator on that channel in Newberg K248BS, which also means that a translator in lieu of an LPFM would have the same spacing issues.
At 105.5, as I have reported on numerous occasions on this board, is a three way MX in the midst of multiple Petitions To Deny being filed by Portland State Univ., Reed College, and the Portland Russian Media Center. If you read through the Portland Metro LPFM review thread http://feedback.pdxradio.com/topic/lpfm-portland-metro-review-licensed-cps-applications you can get the details of that one. Suffice it to say that the eventual grant or grants on that frequency will at most be able to move 5.6 km (3.5 miles) so PRMC’s proposed site will remain in Northeast Portland and Reed and PSU’s proposals will remain in the downtown area as well and in fact have less than 5.6 km margin because of K288FT located north of Forest Grove, and it too can’t be moved any further east towards the proposed LPFM’s.
Now if you mean by “if it wasn’t for the LPFM priority” would any of these frequencies be able to host a translator, the answer is probably yes, but without spending significant time checking their channel studies to see if they meet translator requirements it’s not a certainty. It is almost a certainty that theses LPFM’s will get on the air one way or another so it is highly unlikely that in the next translator window for applications that anyone could use these frequencies anywhere near where the LPFM’s are located. The next translator window will probably be for AM stand alone owners, but that is not certain. The worst thing that could happen is if anyone with an AM could file on them, which means the mega owners would just assimilate them in order to broadcast more crap that’s already on the dial locally.October 19, 2014 at 1:37 am #2729e_dawgParticipant
I was talking about the mx exclusive translator application that was recently dismissed by the fcc. The 96.7 & 100.7 fm app. Of way-fm vs emf.October 19, 2014 at 4:08 am #2730Andy BrownParticipant
“mx exclusive translator application that was recently dismissed”
There is nothing that meets your description.
The FCC dismissed thousands of translator applications in February of 2013 to make room for LPFM including Way Media’s on 96.7 and 100.7 (both in the Portland Metro). EMF had several dismissed but nothing close to Portland (The Dalles was the closest). There was no MX situation on the frequencies you mentioned involving those two applicants in the Portland area. Since that time no applications for translators were allowed to even be made on any frequency until the next translator window which hasn’t even been scheduled yet and certainly won’t until after the LPFM’s are settled. These applications dismissed had been made in 2009 I think.
Here are the translators dismissed in Oregon:
Here is a list of dismissed translators by state if you want to check on your own::
There were two in Southwest Washington dismissed on 100.7, originally tendered by Calvary Chapel and Pacific Lutheran University that might have been MX, but that’s about as close to Portland on that frequency that might have been MX with Way Media.
In other words, what the heck are you talking about?October 19, 2014 at 6:47 am #2731
I noticed that the Tailgate Country translator is running RBDS. I don’t believe I’ve seen a translator do that before.October 19, 2014 at 3:26 pm #2732washnotoreParticipant
Turned Off (D)TV Sets Can Jam Signals
Quote from Webpage
When I was a kid, I quickly discovered that if you turned on two AM radios and put them in close proximity, one could interfere with the other if tuned it just right.
Turns out DTV’s can do that too … except in this case while one TV is actually off.
So, if you have 2 TV’s connected to the same antenna, and one is off, this is a possibility. Fascinating.October 20, 2014 at 4:31 pm #2733chrisweissParticipant
102.3 has been running RBDS since it moved to Skyline.
On the topic of the MP3 carriers on the Skyline signals, this is a weakness of the system that is used for the combining of the analog and HD signals. As the digital signals are “backfed” into the combiner system there is no way to fine tune the analog to digital isolation of the antenna. The two signals are being combined in the air so there is no way to keep the stronger signal from stepping on the weak one. If the analog and digital were both being generated by the same transmitter it would be a lot simpler to isolate the analog from the digital, and provide a consistent RF product in the field.
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