Time for F&B to go

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    It’s a friggin’ internet forum. If you’re getting that worked up over something that someone is is typing on a computer screen, then you need to find a less stressful pastime.


    LP: Vern has been kicked out 3 separate times. All for the same reason. That’s a record for this site as far as I know.

    And this isn’t about disagreement, this is about bigotry. Would anyone in this forum tolerate a poster that always used the N word when discussing a black person? Roughly 95% of the forum would want a poster banned for posting crap like that.

    Why should it be different when it comes to gays? A gay person and a black person have something in common. Both are biological traits. Unlike religion, being gay or being black is not a choice.

    The use of words like: “disordered”, “immoral”, “meanspirited activists”, “vindictive gay pricks”, “Gay Gestapo”, “Homosexual activists”, “two people of the same sex can be united in Holy Matrimony, which is impossible and an offense to God”, “They’re such a petty and meanspirited lot”, “This extreme vindictiveness and anxiousness to to go beyond being reasonable and going for the jugular exposes gay activism as being more than a desire for “civil rights”, and “morally reprehensible” when referring to gays is over the top offensive.

    Those above words ARE YOURS. I copied and pasted it from your recent posts. All in the last day or two. It even surprised me how vile the totality of hatred you’ve spewed in just the last few days.


    It’s interesting that vitalogy didn’t post my words in context. I wonder why. A text without a context is a pretext. In this case, it’s a form of lying. A total distortion.

    I honestly expected that this thread was going to be a feeding frenzy, but have been pleasantly surprised by many fair and reasonable responses. Thank you.

    I thought a thread that generates many responses is a successful thread. I thought that was an interesting discussion. This board is very inactive compared to what it used to be and many regulars are gone. Why not welcome activity? Why not welcome diversity? Why not ignore a thread if you don’t like it?

    Lastly, yes I was banned and yes I was pissed about it and came back a couple of times and was banned again. That was then and this is now, two years later. I am here with Dan’s permission. And I have not done any ban worthy posting. Not close. Its just that a couple of posters think a personal vendetta is grounds for banning someone, or that people of certain religious persuasions ought to be excommunicated.

    Why not have fun with these discussions? I am. The level of anger I have seen in a couple of posters here is so inappropriate for what should be a place where all ideas can be shared and discussed.

    On the other hand, if there are restrictions and rules they ought to be plainly stated so nobody gets blindsided by a ban when they are posting in good faith.



    Go try those words on a prominent, reputable site like Quora, for example.

    Be sure and keep track of the days to warning and ban.

    That site has be nice, be respectful as its primary moderation criteria.

    That means not calling someone an ass, but it does not disallow profanity.


    It also means racism, bigotry and theocracy are not Ok.

    Discussing them is, advocating, or practicing them on others is not.

    Those rules are solid, respectable and fair. Nobody gets bad treatment for who they are and the targets of those things share their experiences and it is amazing what they go through at the hands of those who would just put words on a screen.

    Recently, we had to bulk ban mysoginists making it too hostile to women. The women were brought into a room, material referenced in an anonymous way and the ban hammer applied. We found them out as they did not appear again. Nobody knew the names, just judged on content. It was kind of amazing to see and it got the message out.

    I’ve been there from near the beginning. That site uses real names and people can do anon postings, but lose that option if they break those rules too. The system knows who posts anon, so administration can be done, but nobody else, including administration knows. Clever. And enlightening to see work.

    So this site is interesting because we do real dialog, and basically filter BS and criminal speech. You don’t have to be nice or respectful, but you also need to back up what you do say.

    That experiment led to this place we are at now.

    Quora also got to this same place on a different rule set.

    Being nice does not justify open bigotry, despite the many claims made here.

    I been in other places with the more general rules, and those result in open bigotry being accepted as much as it is not accepted.

    I don’t frequent places where it is accepted.

    Finally, I frequent tech forums that ban all politics and religion.

    Gay people have no trouble here, given we manage open bigotry. Gay people have no trouble on Quora where it is explicitly managed. That site is filled with prominent, powerful, wealthy, notable people who have dialog with ex cons and others. Amazing.

    Know who does the most bitching about the Quora rules? Conservatives by a mile.

    I find that quite interesting on a site where one can have a dialog with a one percenter, porn star, ex con, middle class person, startup founder, professor, phd, and it all works just fine, but for conservatives complaining about the rules. They aren’t the only ones, but they make a clear and consistent majority, frequently calling for a conservative version just for them.

    Gay people often have trouble at sites that do not have rules etc that insure people get a fair dialog. Not ok.

    Gay people do not have trouble at no religion no politics sites either.

    We are fair here. We do not have an unjust, unworkable rule set.

    Want to try the Quora rules? I know them cold and am recognized there as a top writer for every year it has been awarded.


    And F&B would get told to knock it off, then he would get a ban, and a longer one, then not be welcomed back without an appeal where he would be required to show he gets it.

    I know orthodox Roman Catholics who went through that and now contribute just fine.

    It is entirely possible to contribute about the faith, issues and other things without open bigotry.

    My call for this shit to not be tolerated here is just, true and reasonable, which is why I expressed support for the post Vitalogy made.

    What F&B wants is a platform to rant on and not face an accounting for it.

    Not gonna fucking happen.

    He has options, and I put them out there as they were put there the last few times, and they are reasonable too.

    No excuses.


    Okie dokie.


    Knock your shit off, or the emails will get sent gleefully.

    No joke asshole.


    Gouge sez; “If there’s really any indication of how this board has burned out, it’s this thread.”

    Way to go nube! I believe we first heard something like that on this board back in 2002.

    Facebook, Otto and consolidation failed to kill this forum so your little observation is without merit.


    “Thank you Paul and Gouge for being fair.” Two of my favorite Beatles! 🙂

    Knock your shit off, or the emails will get sent gleefully.
    No joke asshole.

    One of the criticisms conservatives have for liberals is that they are not tolerant. You and Vitalogy make that case in spades. You do not own this website, Dan does. You should let him manage as he sees fit.


    Yes. You are totally right, spot on accurate. Intolerant as hell.

    I have no real measure of tolerance for racism, bigotry and theocracy.

    And I don’t have to, nor want to. And guess what? I totally get to do that. No regrets, no apologies, no fear.

    Liberals are very tolerant, but we aren’t stupid, nor are we going to enable harming our peers.

    I am happy to reconsider all of that. All you need is a positive argument for tolerating those things.

    Got one?

    By the way, I’ve written back and forth to Dan over the years. He’s 100 percent in support of this conversation. Racism, bigotry and theocracy are not OK.

    It’s not about ownership. This is about being quality humans to one another.


    >>Liberals are very tolerant
    accept to people of faith that live their beliefs…sayin….
    >>being quality humans to one another
    I have never in my life been so demeaned by postings here because of what I have written/say/believe…but still love to contribute and be a part of this community.


    It’s not being a quality human being to destroy a woman for obeying her conscience. That’s pretty darn crappy, and though she might lose in the courts, she’ll prevail in the court of public opinion.

    The ink is barely dry on laws that redifine marriage, and now it’s clobbering time. Fair-minded gay people as well are feeling very uneasy about this heavy handedness.

    At any rate, it’s a topic worthy of discussion and worthy of hearing all opinions. If “our kind” aren’t to be served here, than that’s something the admin needs to make clear, and the board bullies and self-appoined admins and moderators will be ignored, and I politely say STFU to the abusive lot of you, while expressing my gratitude to those here who have common sense and are fair. I will therefore stop judging all liberals by the few who are abusive and intolerant.


    The only crap you have got here is related to your judgement of others.

    The only reason your faith got involved is you justifying judgement on it.

    Andy Brown

    And why is it Vern that you have been thrown off the board no less than three times?


    I’ve enjoyed this board for years. Even among some of it’s ugliest moments.

    It’s sharpened me. I’ve learn to take some pretty harsh feedback. Hold to what I believe and show why I believe that way. Also, I’ve been willing to show that maybe I got some of this wrong or need to reconsider somethings.

    Faith isn’t about being right or wrong. For me it’s about working towards a deeper faith that manifests daily in kindnesses and good will towards others. It’s not about “saving” people its about walking the talk, at times quietly.

    Tim Shriver, Chair of Special Olympics, writes…”You cannot believe in or practice unitive consciousness as long as you exclude and marginalize others–whether it is women or people of different sexual orientations or people of religious or ethnic minorities or, in my experience, people with intellectual disabilities.”

    Jerry, this is where, IMHO, your perspective keeps you stuck in an old paradigm. The gospel, though written centuries ago, is progressive because one of its main topics is helping the poor and marginalized. Holding on to your one trick topic, is not progressing the gospel. I really pity you at times.

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