The fallacy of Conservative Christianity

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Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 328 total)
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  • #3950
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    Oh Herb, as much as you want to make Jesus a conservative it just doesn’t work in today’s vernacular. Jesus was neither Republican or Democrat, liberal or conservative. He was a Jew.

    I mentioned many years ago about faith-based organizations that had started places like the Red Cross, hospitals and the like. You will find among those folks many women in leadership roles. They was no liberal or conservative thought. It was about doing what was right.

    But over the years, many other faith-based organizations have sprung up by Muslims, Jews, and the nearly 40,000 denominations that currently reside on the globe. One is no more nobler than the other. If they are doing the right thing, who cares where it comes from.

    Many non-faith based organizations do outstanding work, as well.

    Even my former conservative church does great work within the community as well as some of the progressive churches I’ve attended in recent months, including the church where the pastor is gay and 90 percent of the congregation is too.

    Do the right thing, Herb.

    #3951
    Broadway
    Participant

    Chris, would you agree about what Jesus said in John 14:6 that He was the way, the truth, and the life…the only one that brings redemption to mankind via His death, burial and resurrection???

    #3962
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    I love John. Who do you think johns intended audience is, Broadway?

    #3970
    Broadway
    Participant

    All of humanity…

    #3971
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Believing that somebody who died will come back to life is silly.

    It’s never been proven ever in any circumstance to be a possibility. Or even possible.

    #3972
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    Broadway-

    That’s a westernized answer and incorrect.

    #3974
    skeptical
    Participant

    Speaking of which, doesn’t anyone find it odd that the the apostles have English names — Peter, Paul, John, Matthew et. al.? This, of course, was quite long before England was much of a country.

    If these names got changed along the way, for whatever reason, this ought to make the Bible even less legit in the eyes of many.

    #3975
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    This whole thing would be much simpler with people taking their faith personally, not judging everybody else.

    Yeah, I know. “But just think of the children!!”, or, “But we have to save the masses before it’s too late!!”

    Whatever.

    If you actually think people will burn eternal for walking into a different building, or reading a different book than you did?

    Seriously?

    That’s a fucked up pile of baloney.

    #3976
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    …and what is worse?

    The idea that people can’t get to these basic realizations without also realizing they’ve been entertaining false choices for a long time. A long, painful enough time to be embarrassing!

    So people don’t. They just play the numbers game; otherwise, they have to ask themselves some rather ugly questions they really don’t want reasonable answers to.

    Plus, it feels great to put on good clothes and pretend once, or maybe even a few times per week that they have all the answers, if only everybody else would see it their way.

    #3977
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    I take the bible seriously, not literally. I choose a more intellectual approach than the westernized, evangelical approach. The bible for me has great statements of faith. The gospels: I see them as sermons and great nuggets to chew on.

    However, through scripture we can and do find some historical data along with biblical archeology. Over 5000 pieces of evidence exist that are directly connected with scripture. The irony is, what we have about Jesus is very small, and historians, scholars and theologians continue to look for more evidence, which does exist, most of it in a library in Egypt written on papaya that you can’t even touch or it will crumble. Hopefully, technology will give us the chance to read those 12,000 scrolls at some later time.

    #3984
    duxrule
    Participant

    Broadway and Herb need to let me know which translation of the Bible that this “Christian” is reading:

    Arizona pastor predicts ‘AIDS-free Christmas’ if all gays are killed, as God commands

    “…“Turn to Leviticus 20:13,” he says in the video, “because I actually discovered the cure for AIDS.”

    “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them,” Anderson read aloud.

    “And that, my friend, is the cure for AIDS,” he said. “It was right there in the Bible all along — and they’re out spending billions of dollars in research and testing. It’s curable — right there. Because if you executed the homos like God recommends, you wouldn’t have all this AIDS running rampant.””

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/arizona-pastor-predicts-aids-free-christmas-if-all-gays-are-killed-as-god-commands/

    #3985
    jerry1949
    Spectator

    Plus, it feels great to put on good clothes and pretend once, or maybe even a few times per week that they have all the answers, if only everybody else would see it their way.

    Most of us dress casually. I miss the days when everyone wore their “Sunday best.” I recall two exceptions. Black Catholic Churches in the southeast. Almost every man wore a coat and tie and all the women wore nice dresses. But there’s no pretense in that. That inspires me to buy some new sport coats. Nothing wrong with making that a special occasion worthy of special dress.

    None of us feels we have all the answers. The older I get the more questions I have. And we all have family and friends who have fallen away. We don’t judge them or others who “don’t see it our way.” And we’re well aware of our own sins and failings. Where do you dig up these Christians? I don’t know any like that.

    #3986
    jerry1949
    Spectator

    Peter and Paul are English names in my English bible. In my spanish bible they are Pedro and Pablo. I don’t know what they were in the original Greek or Aramaic. I’m surprised that of all things “changing” a name to suit the language would cause any skepticism.

    Back in Jesus’ day, nobody called him “Jesus.” It was “Yeshua.” We had to change it for English speaking people, otherwise the response would be “gesundheit.”

    #3987
    Andy Brown
    Participant

    I think the point you’re missing or evading is that the Religion practiced by many of the conservative Christian ilk bears little resemblance to the original Religion founded in the name of Jesus of Nazareth after his death. That is not an attack on any one individual, but a simple and documentable statement.

    As we have discussed before, the Conservatives only embraced evangelism in the last 40 years. Or if you prefer, Conservatism has embraced evangelism. The history of Christianity is hardly a standard bearer for the basis of conservatism which abhors change of any kind. The Christian denominations have changed a lot (including parts of the so called untouchable “doctrine”) and sufficient proof of that has been presented here in the past (whether you agree with it or not is not the main point). To claim that the various Christian dogmas have not changed would be not only irresponsible but also an indicator of cluelessness.

    Put another way, if Jesus were alive today, do you really think he would condone the presentation and communication tactics of people like Broadway? I think not. People like Broadway only exacerbate the conflictual aspects of the topic due to poor language skills. For example, if you are a truly devout fan of baseball but can only communicate with other devout fans of that sport, can you really be an effective spokesperson to others that are not devout or totally reject baseball as America’s greatest game? In the modern world, it takes more than devotion to any topic to be a good marketer.

    Ultimately, there is a lot of evidence to the contrary of the point that Christianity has any connection to conservative thought. The notion of mixing politics and religion in this day and age is automatically invalid. That is not to say that there can be factions within any religion that diverge over the need for change or not, but associating conservative political dogma with religious beliefs as a grounds for correctness is ludicrous to the point of acrimony and why it brings out so much negativity from not only non believers but other Christians as well.

    http://americanvision.org/5984/the-fallacy-of-conservatism/

    #3988
    Alfredo_T
    Participant

    I believe that the unlikely marriage of enthusiastically pro-private entities, pro-laissez faire policy with Christianity that we experience today is a direct result of the Cold War. Even though the Cold War was over more than 20 years ago, with the collapse of the Berlin Wall in 1989, followed by German reunification and the collapse of the Soviet Union, we are living in an environment that I do not think has changed much since before those events took place.

    I find it interesting that many people fail to grasp that with the collapse of the Eastern Bloc, the main principles behind communist societies were debunked–these are that the economy should be centrally planned and that businesses, farms, etc., should not be privately owned. As far as I know, only the leaderships of Cuba and North Korea still subscribe to these ideologies. It took me a long time, but I have finally come to understand why people who fear “creeping socialism” today do not know what they are talking about.

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