The Bruce Jenner Interview

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  • #10078
    Alfredo_T
    Participant

    I think that the reason that there a “transgender tipping point” is that many tragic stories have been coming out in the news about transgender suicides. Ironically, Matt Walsh is right that these are people who are in a fragile emotional state. What would one say that is not condescending or demeaning to a person facing gender identity issues? I don’t think that “Gotta have faith!” will cut it.

    #10103
    skeptical
    Participant

    Alfredo, most trans suicides is the result of society placing a burden on them. If left alone (acceptance, no pressure to conform), there would be no reason to consider suicide. Unfortunately, many trans kids are pressured (rejection) by their (usually conservative) parents, (also conservative) friends and (ignorant) colleagues, never mind outright rejection from their Churches. They literally have no safe harbors. Kids in moderate to liberal families have more options if not complete acceptance.

    If people would mind their business and shut the fuck up, the trans suicide rate would drop considerably.

    #11191
    duxrule
    Participant

    Did everyone get to meet Caitlyn?

    null

    #11192
    Alfredo_T
    Participant

    ^^
    When I woke up this morning, this was the story playing on KEX. According to one of the announcers on KEX, the most offensive subject that one can bring up to a transgender person is that of the surgery.

    #11194
    duxrule
    Participant

    I haven’t read the article, but in the Diane Sawyer interview, Jenner said that he hadn’t had “the surgery,” and wasn’t sure if he was going to.

    #11195
    Langston
    Participant

    Look no further. The next Rose Parade Grand Marshal has been found.

    #11196
    Amus
    Participant

    If I never hear the words Jenner or Kardashian again, I’d be fine with that.

    This is news.

    #11203
    duxrule
    Participant

    Does this fall under the realm of “unintended consequences”?

    Caitlyn Jenner
    New Identity Creates Problems
    at the Golf Course

    Caitlyn Jenner has some tricky day-to-day changes in store, including where she eats, drinks and changes clothes … at the country club which has become her home away from home.

    Bruce Jenner became a member of Sherwood Country Club in Thousand Oaks, CA 15 years ago. He golfed there almost every day and established close relationships with his golfing buddies, including Wayne Gretzky. It’s a very exclusive, ritzy club with an initiation cost set at $225,000.

    But now that Bruce is Caitlyn, there’s a new set of rules that segregate her from the male members.

    For starters, the main dining room and bar are male only. They’re actually attached to the men’s locker room and women are not allowed. The women’s restaurant is way more scaled down … in other words, not nearly as nice.

    Our Sherwood sources say the board will enforce the rules, which means the camaraderie Bruce shared with the other members will be greatly impeded now that she’s Caitlyn.

    But we’re also told the board is open to an appeal by Caitlyn herself. She can attempt to make a case that she can keep the same privileges she had when she was Bruce.

    The club is closed for renovations until December, which means there’s time to sort things out.

    http://www.tmz.com/2015/06/02/caitlyn-jenner-golf-course-sherwood/#ixzz3bvNYWuBw

    This reminds me of an old golf joke:

    On his death bed, a man calls his wife of 20 years (both are avid golfers) into the room and says “I have a confession to make…Not long after we were married, I was unfaithful to you, but only the one time. It’s a millstone that I have borne all of these years.” The wife blushes, hems and haws, and then says “I too have a confession…Several years before I met you, I had a sex change operation. I used to be a man.” The husband falls silent for a while, as his rage builds, and then he roars “YOU USED TO BE A MAN? …AND YOU’VE BEEN HITTING FROM THE RED TEES ALL OF THESE YEARS?”

    #11205
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Those country club dynamics are interesting!

    The status change makes sense. She’s actualizing her gender, and with that comes the norms, laws, and other things associated with that gender. In a simple sense, the board is processing it rationally. But, they recognize the dynamics in play.

    There is history, friends, relationships too.

    That’s always the most difficult part of trans people for me. The right thing to do is map over what you know and feel, and where there are gaps, meet the real person and work from there. Tough to do. Rewarding though. A good friend is a good friend. I learned that.

    I suspect some of the people in that club are experiencing similar things, and it’s making the gender norms there stand out, which is a good thing. Perhaps they will spiff up the women’s portion of the club, and leave the separation there, but provide a more meaningful experience for everyone. Perhaps they won’t, but will instead modify the rules some.

    If she makes the appeal, how does that work? And, that’s kind of a denial about her gender, or a lot of what trans is, unless other women can appeal too. Should that happen, how does that work?

    If she doesn’t, will the pull of established relationships cause change, or will she go and form new ones and step away from others who may be close, or feel strongly about it all?

    High society is getting an education up front, close and personal. Good. Let’s see how they do.

    BTW: That’s a pretty great, and brave photo. Well done Vanity Fair. They could have done a lot with that, but what they did do was honest.

    #11206
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    TYT does their usual solid overview. If you aren’t watching The Young Turks, you should be.

    #11211
    Andy Brown
    Participant

    Rob got this one right. All the coverage is not about Jenner’s struggle. It’s about ratings and money. I think some of you need a reminder, the reason TV is on the air is to play commercials. To play commercials you need to sell air time and to sell air time on TV, you must have ratings. To get your ratings share you MUST cater to main stream and lowest common denominator tastes, and everything that has anything to do with sex organs is in that category.

    Oh, and Broadway, Skeptical is 100% spot on. No one needs or cares about the “conservative” view on this especially when the world of Christianity has been so infiltrated and decimated by perverts and abusers who in come cases hold power to do wrong to so many people.

    http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/religion/christianity/christianpedofile.shtml

    #11220
    Broadway
    Participant

    >>decimated by perverts
    If you don’t consider what Bruce Jenner is doing to his life as perverted, we’ve lost society as we know it…heck…who’s he fooling…keeping the plumbing he was born with…he’s still a male.
    There’s some really sick stuff going down here…they all just need some real help. There is a cross dresser in the line every night where I serve meals downtown in my city and have struck up conversations with him…nothing about his appearance…I really don’t care to go there…but on issues of eternal importance is where I hope to go. No hate here…just concern about lives…don’t believe me…that’s your concern.

    #11221
    edselehr
    Participant

    per·vert·ed (pərˈvərdəd)

    adjective: (of a person or their actions) characterized by sexually abnormal and unacceptable practices or tendencies.

    Broadway, you can’t call transgendered people “perverted”, that they are “really sick” and they “all just need some real help”, then put yourself on a pedestal and say “No hate here”.

    If Jenner and other transgendered people are “perverted” as you say, then they are acting unacceptably and (as you would say) breaking moral laws. That is a call to action! That is a call to condemnation and the end of such practices! Because you are saying they are dangerous to society!

    Sorry, Broadway, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t condemn transgender behavior, then claim to not be a hater.

    #11223
    Andy Brown
    Participant

    Broadway, you are clearly pretty ignorant on the subject. Caitlyn has yet to confirm whether or not she’ll actually go through with the full genital transition, but the article in Vanity Fair points out that this operation isn’t required for one to be a transgender man or woman. In fact, only about a quarter of transgender woman have had this surgery done! Plus, the World Professional Association for Transgender Health’s “Standards Of Care” advises that genital surgery not be done until at least a year after transition, Vanity Fair reports. Caitlyn still has some time! So, Broadway, your statement above “who’s he fooling…keeping the plumbing he was born with…he’s still a male.” only underscores your lack of prowess on the subject. Meanwhile, the little step stool you stand on is crumbling. How about in 1985 when Methodist minister Emyr Owen, a homosexual later found to possess a collection of sado-masochistic pornography, was imprisoned by Chester Crown Court for secretly cutting the genitals off corpses of his parishoners which were placed in his care for burial and for threatening to murder a four year old girl. Police found photographs of severed genitals together with knives and surgical implements at Owen’s vicarage. Owen was in charge of severalchapels in North Wales and at one time had been the Chaplain to the High Sherrif of Gwyned. Sentenced to 4 years imprisonment. Or how about in 1988 when Pentecostal minister Rev John Terry beheaded one of his parishoners and burned down his church with the body in it in an attempt to assume a new identity and disappear with 25,000 of church money. And you, Broadway, have the gall to pass judgement on all of transgenders? Less than 3 in 10 Americans believe in the literal Bible translation du jour. Isn’t it about time you bible thumpers find a more universal and contemporary reality? Or would you rather live out your life with that sign hanging down on your chest that says “Religious Bigot?”
    http://tinyurl.com/q8up4ps

    #11224
    Andy Brown
    Participant

    “If you don’t consider what Bruce Jenner is doing to his life as perverted, we’ve lost society as we know it…”

    Speak for yourself. You are the outcast. You are the one with perverted beliefs and the societal pariah. You and the few bible thumping bigots are shrinking in number. Thank God for that.

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