May 24, 2015 at 11:58 pm #10946skepticalParticipant
Generally, one wouldn’t wish ill will on people, but there comes a point where enough bodies have piled up, one stops being polite.May 26, 2015 at 1:52 pm #10986
Is redemption allowed??
http://www.christianpost.com/news/finding-redemption-in-the-josh-duggar-story-139495/May 26, 2015 at 2:04 pm #10987VitalogyParticipant
Not in his case. Too much hypocrisy to forgive.May 26, 2015 at 2:19 pm #10993AmusParticipant
Prior to this coming out, I was only peripherally aware of these people and their show.
The fewer reality TV shows the better.
But what I took from the news story that ran in the original post on this thread is that the family knew about this for years and never reported it.
Now that it’s out, the statute of limitation is up.
What does that tell you?
And like Brian said in his earlier post;
I guaran-damn-tee you that the (so called) Christian Community are far more accepting of this guy as a child molester than they would have if he had come out as a (non-child molesting) gay.
From the opinion piece that Broadway posted I took this;
But would we have had this same attitude of mercy and forgiveness if this was the child of a gay couple? Would we have said, “This proves that gay parents are no good?”
Can you pass this test Broadway?
If you were to be honest, I believe you’d have to say no.May 26, 2015 at 3:41 pm #10999BrianlParticipant
There should NEVER be a statute of limitations on child molestation. Ever.May 26, 2015 at 5:09 pm #11004Mrs.MerkinParticipant
If it weren’t a media circus and so invasive I would hope the (or an) accuser(s) are brave enough and now old enough to now enough to say “this is what he did to me”.
And Broadway, You are embarrassing yourself and making yourself look and sound like a giant pompous sphincter and giving ALL other ALL Christians a big fat black eye with your holier-than-thou crap and bible verses that you constantly act like you invented and then twist to your personal interpretation and situation. You’re defending a pedophile? A reality-TV fundy criminal? Seriously, stop it.
God is pissed. At YOU.May 26, 2015 at 7:50 pm #11007
Those who have enjoyed revealing these long ago sins in order to discredit the Duggar family have actually revealed their own insensitive blood thirst. There was no consideration of the fact that the victims wanted this to be left in the past, he says, and ultimately a judge had the information on file destroyed—not to protect Josh, but the innocent victims.May 26, 2015 at 7:55 pm #11008
Get back to us when he is willing to discuss what happened, not blame those who are having that discussion.May 26, 2015 at 9:06 pm #11010
>>discuss what happened
Why is there a need for that….guess Huckabee was right about revealing “their own insensitive blood thirst” and zero sensitivity regarding the victims.May 26, 2015 at 9:32 pm #11012
It’s simple: A lot of Christians are very seriously threatened by the idea that society isn’t going to tolerate their out in the open discrimination.
(and good, the time for that shit has passed)
The core idea here is, “it’s a family matter”, which can be used to excuse all kinds of crazy shit. When authorities do get involved, somebody somewhere has a case for harm that extends outside the family. We need that to be possible so that abuses are not enabled by trapping people in various ways that present high costs for their speaking out.
And that keeps a good family honest just as much as it does enable somebody suffering at the hands of an abusive one from doing so without having options.
Truth is, the Duggars are anti gay marriage. And another truth is racists, bigots and theocrats center their justification for discrimination on faith.
Essentially, “God says it’s OK to hate fags” or some other damn thing with no rational basis otherwise.
Now, that’s compelling to fellow people fighting for the right to discriminate openly without being held accountable for their discrimination. This is a common theme with the religious right, who very consistently assert their “first amendment protections” get violated when they actually are held to account for offensive, discriminatory and or harmful to others speech.
As they, and all of us should.
Remember, the first amendment is not a shield. When people say and do shitty things, others can and will talk about it and the end result is generally not going to go well for the people doing shitty things.
This is as designed and intended.
Because nobody needs people doing shitty things!
And it definitely looks extra shitty to see those asses being anti-gay LGBT icons when their own house isn’t in order, doesn’t it?
Hell yes it does!
Because they are doing advocacy! And advocacy is a contact sport Broadway. Some advocacy is light contact, like “save the kittens” type advocacy centering on, “awww, poor things!” type issues. It’s easy, and most people can do that advocacy with few worries because the issue is not really all that controversial and their background isn’t too meaningful, unless it is!
Say we’ve got a save the animals campaign going from that guy who got caught running dog fights! Wouldn’t that be just a bit shitty? I say it’s extra shitty. Total hypocrisy. Nobody would have that kind of spokesperson with that kind of background, unless that person actually did own their ugly deeds and were doing the advocacy from a position of contrition and genuine good intent to make it all good. That might work, depending on how believable it all is.
Back to the Duggars then.
They have invited the inquiry! It’s they who have decided to go on anti-LBGT advocacy, and advocacy involves the emotion, rational or reasoned arguments, and character.
They are attempting to validate how others live, and the moment they do that, they themselves are open to the same critique. Contact sport. It’s not anyone’s fault but theirs as to how they are seen as advocates, and by engaging in the dialog, and particularly how they are attempting to marginalize others and their lives and loves, they themselves get the same treatment.
Huckabee wants to promote the idea they can hide behind the Bible, and that quite frankly is a serious crock of shit.
Doesn’t work that way in the USA. If they really do want to live private, quiet lives and keep their matters in the family, then they need to actually do that, not engage in some curious spectacle as they are right now.
The First Amendment is not a shield. Advocacy, politics and speech in general is a contact sport. Others can, do, will, should judge us on the merits of our speech, actions, beliefs.
Secondly, faith is not any kind of authority in the USA. God is entirely optional. The law is a secular thing, and the protection of the first amendment is all about limiting the ability of the government to regulate your speech, and that includes your beliefs.
We as people are completely free to judge the merits of those beliefs and speech as we see fit, which is exactly what is happening right now. We’ve got some disturbing people attempting to take some sort of high ground and speak against other people with some sort of implied authority based on some faith they have.
The only authority their –or any faith has is that authority people choose to grant it. Any of us are completely free to ignore that shit.
Just remember that. Huck is standing up for people who would definitely be deemed odd, creepy and much worse, because their anti-agenda is aligned with his own anti-agenda, not that any of them are right about even a single word of it all.
Not only should the rest of us call this shit out, but we are obligated to do so before our gay brothers and sisters see uncalled for, unjustified harm at the hands of these very scary people.May 26, 2015 at 9:33 pm #11013
Put very simply, if any of us have dark secrets to hide, we would do very well to stay out of politics and avoid controversial advocacy.
Don’t judge lest ‘ye too be judged.
Law of the land buddy. The Duggars and Huck are both about to learn all about it at the school of really hard, “should have shut the fuck up” school of hard knocks.May 26, 2015 at 9:41 pm #11014Mrs.MerkinParticipant
What the hell is that? What does that even mean to you, Mr. Narrow-Way? That is such a ridiculous phrase. And used for sensationalism, which you swallowed like a carp: hook line and sinker.
These religious fanatic zealot idiots put themselves on TV, are making a LOT of filthy lucre and they and YOU are sad they got caught in hiding molestation charges of little girls (or boys?) and that they forgot to tell the producers? And you’re talking about throwing stones? You are sadly misguided in your faith. Change the channel and go back to Pat Robertson and listen to him tell you about the devil living in used clothes at Goodwill. Go make cabbage soup in the park so you can brag about what a “Personal Jesus” you are to all of us. Or just stop quoting bible verses and ‘man up’, read Missing’s post. Real slow and out loud to yourself, then come back and give more than your usual 3-sentence-quip-quote-and-run BS.May 26, 2015 at 11:01 pm #11018Randy_in_EugeneParticipant
Here is an interesting take on a number of related issues, including whether or not Josh Duggar would likely re-offend, and what Christian fundamentalism and Bill Gothard-ism do not teach about things like consent, cross-gender friendship, etc. http://fiddlrts.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-duggars-how-fundamentalisms.html?spref=fbMay 26, 2015 at 11:44 pm #11023
Randy, that’s a good read. I suffered quite a bit at the hands of Gothard. Ugh…
Because the perpetrator in this case (and in my cases as well) was a minor – age 14 – a boy in the throes of puberty – the issues are not quite as straight forward as they would be in a typical pedophile case.
While I would not defend what this boy did – it was pretty clearly sexual assault – I do understand some of why, and strongly believe that Gothard’s teachings contributed to the way he acted out.
…is actually spot on, and the author does an absolutely stellar job highlighting how and why too. Awesome. You all should read this and think hard. Lucid.
That blogger has enough experience to see it for what it is. Many of my peers, also undergoing Gothard style sex and gender education, demonstrated things mentioned in that blog, and here is a light expansion on how that might be so:
I SO should have kept my “Mens Manual” During one of the larger events, a good friend of mine wanted to switch, so we did. Holy crap! We both were amused! Her “Women’s Manual” was just as crazy, and both highly enabling to this sort of thing. BTW, had we been caught at that? I don’t want to even imagine. It was bad enough to just be friends. No joke.
Edit: And that’s my own Gothard sourced harm. Not only did I have to spend a lot of my 20’s sorting things out, but the taboos over the other gender affected my early marriage and ability to have women as friends. This took some significant work to resolve. Work that I would never had to do otherwise. And it’s painful. And it’s over. Whew! That’s hard to say, but I can now. Good.
Like the author, I’m absolutely not going to excuse it. However, combining young minds, hormones, and this kind of garbage may well have undesirable results.
Specifically, there is no path in the Gothard authoritarian family operating manual for open discussion of sex and gender issues! Seriously. It’s all framed in terms of fear, lust, shame. And that’s how this kind of thing can gestate.
Further, I had to deal with an underage incident. My adopted kids were special needs, and they saw some stuff in life that most kids did not see. Careful management of that event brought a perfectly fine, healthy resolution. There are no issues today.
But, there could very easily have been. And that’s where the double edged sword of “keep it in the family” can do great harm or great good.
The good comes from a rational assessment of intent. If it’s not attraction to young people for their age, it’s not pedo behavior. It’s something else and professionals can sort it and will, given access and parents willing to do the education needed to actually deal too. In this scenario, one may edit what gets seen while taking steps to get everybody where they need to be. A misstep here could result in a label placed too early that isn’t warranted and that is damaging. Some careful decisions here are totally in bounds, ordinary and expected.
But, if the family really isn’t open enough to make that rational assessment of intent?
They are fucked. No joke. All happenings will be kept secret, with only the bare minimum needed to comply and exit authorities and professionals privy. From there, it could be the wrong behavior and nobody will know, which is seriously borked. Or, it could be somebody needs education and other professional resources to sort themselves out too. And they won’t get them, which means the problems are extremely likely to fester and escalate to bad ends.
Again, nobody is going to know, and worse, a family ill equipped to have the dialog means a family of festering issues that is highly likely to present all kinds of ugly over time.
If you want to know the truth, this whole mess angers me. Not over what happened. I’ve explained how and why that’s just a mess and it’s very likely we can’t know enough to even begin to sort out what is what. No, I’m angered over how dysfunctional it all is, the harm being done, and all that while these clowns pose as some kind of moral advocacy authority?
Please.May 27, 2015 at 1:43 am #11030skepticalParticipant
Unlike Broadway, who is a one-face monster who drives transgender people to their deaths.
Michelle Duggar is a TWO-faced monster who also drives trans people to their deaths, she is addition a hypocrite, falsely accusing trans people of being child molestors while at the same time harboring them within her own family.
Of the kids molested, there’s a risk they one of them will eventually take their life as well.
Of 19 kids, at least 3 are likely to be gay, and a 25 percent chance that one of the kids will be transgender.
Congrats Christian extremists for the “glory” that is Michelle Duggar.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.