March 2, 2015 at 11:06 pm #7520e_dawgParticipant
I’m not sure if the reason why KMCQ can’t become Class C1 is it because of KDUX 104.7 in Aberdeen, WA and KKRV 104.7 Chashmere/Wenachee(sp) WA? I’m not sure about KMNT 104.3 (Class C3) in Chehalis WA effect the class upgrade for KMCQ?
Also, I don’t think it’s CHHR, because they already short spaced with KAFE 104.1, and the minimum separation between US and Canada stations are different.March 2, 2015 at 11:29 pm #7523
To be a C1 their power must exceed 50 kW. With their current height they can only go to 7 kW DA to be protecting all those stations as a C2. Their DA already has a maximum deep null. Also, with that Canadian station, their distance is only 2.5 km from being short spaced.
Go here http://tinyurl.com/mo6jjvt and look over on the right at the column titled “margin.”
Trust me. I’ve done applications. These guys were able to get to C2 with a deep null antenna. It’s as good as it is going to get.March 3, 2015 at 3:31 pm #7547e_dawgParticipant
Again, US and Canada has a agreement to be short space between channels. Look at KISM 92.9 and CKYE 93.1, KWPZ 106.5 and CKAV-FM2, KZOK 102.5 and CKPK 102.7, KHTP 103.7 and CHQM 103.5. They are all short spaced.March 3, 2015 at 3:50 pm #7551
Short spacing is only acceptable if specific contours don’t overlap and with Canadian stations those contours are even more of a challenge than between U.S. stations, using different contours (e.g. it’s not a 60 not going over a 40, it’s a 60 going over a more distant contour I think it’s the 37, so like I said it’s even more confining). Try reading all of 73.215. That brings us to the minimum requirements for C1 which is 50 kW unless you are over 450 m HAAT, which they are not and even so, at that kind of power at their existing height they would not just be short spaced but they would be exceeding all those stations contours both in U.S. and Canada WHICH IS NOT ALLOWED.
Give it up, e-dawg. You don’t know what you’re doing.March 3, 2015 at 4:45 pm #7553outsiderParticipant
….KKRV 104.7 Chashmere/Wenachee(sp) WA?….
Cashmere/Wenatchee is the correct spelling.March 3, 2015 at 10:22 pm #7567
Andy, you just brought up something I’ve never heard before and I want to see if I understand it: I thought a maximum C2 was 50KW @ 150 meters HAAT and anything beyond that(but below the requirements of a C0 or C)was a Class C1, regardless of the power. It sounds like you’re saying that a 50KW minimum is an iron-clad rule until you reach 450 meters. The only example I can currently think of that contradicts this is that KUPL used to be 37KW @ 440 meters. I thought you said this in the last two posts. I must be missing something.March 4, 2015 at 12:32 am #7573
C2 ERP maximum is 50 kW but 150 meters is the reference HAAT, not a maximum or a minimum. Only stations of class C and C0 actually have “minimum” HAAT. It’s all about the distance to the 60 dBu contour. If you are operating at the maximum power, your HAAT must not exceed the reference height. If you are operating at less than the maximum power, your HAAT may exceed the reference HAAT but your distance to the 60 dBu contour can not exceed that of your class.
Here are some excerpts from 73.211
(v) The ERP for Class C2 stations must exceed 25 kW.
(vi) The ERP for Class C1 stations must exceed 50 kW.
(vii) The minimum ERP for Class C and C0 stations is 100 kW.
The maximum ERP for C1, C and C0 are all 100 kW.
(3) Stations of any class except Class A may have an ERP less than that specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section, provided that the reference distance, determined in accordance with paragraph (b)(1)(i) of this section, exceeds the distance to the class contour for the next lower class. Class A stations may have an ERP less than 100 watts provided that the reference distance, determined in accordance with paragraph (b)(1)(i) of this section, equals or exceeds 6 kilometers. (Hey, that’s how I got KMUZ’s application compliant)
So the station e dawg is referencing has ERP of 7 kW and a HAAT of 388 m. The power of 7 kW does not meet the C2 minimum of 25 kW but the HAAT of 388 m provides a 60 dB contour that exceeds the class contour distance of the next lowest class C3 which is 39 km. For them to go to the next class (C1) is simply impossible because they already exceed HAAT of class C1 (so they would have to operate below the 50 kW C1 minimum but they would have to have sufficient power to push their 60 dBu out beyond that of class C2 which is 52 km and they just don’t have the room to do that. Look at their DA http://tinyurl.com/pkrpr3n
and you can see they are already sucking it in in the main lobe pointing west. Or look at the values in the chart on the app at http://tinyurl.com/o95rql6 and see not only are they totally nulled between 10º and 170º (east) but have a null west between 260º and 300º west, to protect all those stations to the west. They are only 100% to the north and south, and the margins north to Canada are very small and that means there will be next to no clearance between correlating contours. After all, spacing is based on contours for average stations with a small buffer.
This would be clear as a bell on my spacing software but I upgraded my OS and have do some other upgrading to use it again, but it’s clear as a bell that pushing out their contours to exceed C2 coverage is impossible.
Also take note of the below concerning older stations that seem to be non compliant:
(d) Existing Class C stations below minimum antenna HAAT. Class C stations authorized prior to January 19, 2001 that do not meet the minimum antenna HAAT specified in paragraph (a)(2) of this section for Class C stations may continue to operate as authorized subject to the reclassification procedures set forth in Note 4 to §73.3573.
Here’s the pertinent rules:
Also previously noted that threw off e dawg, when you are filing to be short spaced (like these guys did) you still must meet minimum short spacing distances (they are separate from standard spacing distances) and can’t overlap the other guys contours. Which contours get compared depends on whether you are comparing co channel or first, second and third adjacent. In short, the proposed 60 dBu must not overlap co channel 40 dBu, first adjacent 54 dBu and 2nd and 3rd 100 dBu contours of any station that is found to be between the normal minimum spacing and the short spaced absolute minimum spacing.
Most folks don’t realize that there is a second table for short spaced applications minimum spacing.
It’s all right here:
except for Canada and Mexico.which are found somewhere else. It would take another hour to explain Canada and Mexico, but my earlier explanation holds. For example, the proposed 60 dBu contour can not overlap Canadian contours over Canadian soil (they can over U.S. soil) but stations up in Washington have to look at their signals across the border where Canadian protected contours extend further out (to 54 dBu not 60 dBu for all non C class stations and 58 dBu for C’s). So the proposed station’s 60 dBu contour must not cross the Canadian co channel’s 40 dBu and the proposed 34 dBu can not cross the Canadian 54 dBu over Canadian soil. For a first adjacent Canadian, the proposed 48 dBu can not overlap the Canadian 54 dBu.
Hey, I didn’t say it was easy. Mexico is a little easier, you just pretend there is no border but the protection extends out to the full class equivalents.March 4, 2015 at 10:35 pm #7619
After three turns of going around and around, I clicked on the “pertinent rules” link. I was confused before because in the first two posts, you didn’t mention “reference HAAT”. By the time you did, I was so confused, I didn’t know what to think. Here’s the exception that explains not only what you meant but also confirms that I’m not crazy: “(2) If a station has an antenna HAAT greater than the reference HAAT for its class, its ERP must be lower than the class maximum such that the reference distance does not exceed the class contour distance. If the antenna HAAT is so great that the station’s ERP must be lower than the minimum ERP for its class (specified in paragraphs (a)(1) and (a)(3) of this section), that lower ERP will become the minimum for that station.” Yes, I was aware that there are minimum and maximum power levels at a given “reference HAAT”, a term with which I was not actually familiar. Thank you for your patience!March 12, 2015 at 3:54 pm #8040
This from Al Peterson’s “NTS Media Online”:
————KJR’s Spring Roster Update————
Sports Radio 950 KJR-AM/Seattle announces an updated lineup, including the contract renewal of 20-year morning show host Mitch Levy that will keep the popular wake-up host in his familiar 6-10am weekday slot.
Joining KJR after a 15-year run in Phoenix, is broadcast radio veteran Chuck Powell who now follows Mitch In The Morning, hosting a new 10am-noon weekday show on the iHeartMedia-owned Sports/Talker. “Mitch has been a huge part of our team as one of the best in the country, and we look forward to his continued success,” said KJR Program Director Rich Moore. “And adding Chuck Powell to midday’s will bring a new sound to the lineup and round out an amazing bank of personalities for the local Sports radio listener.”
Meanwhile, former Seattle Seahawks head coach Mike Holmgren has also extended his contract with KJR and will continue as an NFL expert and regular contributor to the station for the upcoming 2015 football season through the 2016 Super Bowl.April 14, 2015 at 2:22 pm #9578
This from ALL ACCESS:
——-KLCK Jettisons Morning Show——-
HUBBARD Hot AC KLCK (CLICK 98.9)/SEATTLE has parted company with JACKIE, MARCO and MOOTE. The trio, along with Producer JUSTIN NETTLEBECK, had joined the station for wakeups in MARCH of last year (NET NEWS 3/10/14).
CUNNINGHAM posted on her FACEBOOK page, “So, looks like word got out fast that CLICK 98.9 had to make a business decision to move forward and they decided the morning show was not a priority. So, no more JACKIE, MARCO and MOOTE. Thanks to all of you who stayed and prayed and cared about the show!! We love you!!”
Prior to joining KLCK, JACKIE CUNNINGHAM spent over 13 years across the street at iHEARTMEDIA Top 40 KBKS (KISS 106.1April 15, 2015 at 5:22 pm #9610
This from ALL ACCESS:
Ed Hill Exits KMPS; Carey Curelop Upped To Cluster VP/Programming
CBS RADIO Country KMPS/SEATTLE PD ED HILL exited the station TODAY (4/15) after three-and-a-half years on the job. Concurrently, Classic Rock clustermate KZOK PD CAREY CURELOP has been upped to VP/Programming for the cluster, a role which includes PD chores for KMPS.
HILL joined KMPS in 2011 after a long tenure with CUMULUS Country KUBL (K-BULL 93)/SALT LAKE CITY (NET NEWS 9/30/11).April 29, 2015 at 7:45 am #10115
This from ALL ACCESS:
—–Garett Michaels Leaves The End/Seattle—–
ENTERCOM Alternative KNDD (107.7 THE END)/SEATTLE PD GARETT MICHAELS has exited. Until a successor is found, ENTERCOM/SEATTLE VP/Programming DAVE RICHARDS will be the Interim PD, ENTERCOM/SEATTLE Digital PD LESLIE SCOTT will serve as THE END Associate PD, and KNDD APD/afternoons JON MANLEY will oversee all music operations.
You can reach MICHAELS at Garettsd@gmail.com.May 6, 2015 at 6:25 am #10403
This from ALL ACCESS:
SEATTLE STREAMING RADIO, LLC is selling Silent KBRO-A/BREMERTON, WA; KNTB-A/LAKEWOOD, WA; KLDY/LACEY, WA; and K221FJ/TACOMA, WA, until MARCH the ESPN DEPORTES SEATTLE simulcast, to IGLESIA PENTECOSTAL VISPERIA DEL FIN for $600,000 plus operational costs until closing ($13,500 payment for airtime during MAY, $10,000 plus estimated costs of $3,500 per month costs during pendency (to be credited to the total consideration), $60,000 at closing, $40,000 within 90 days of closing, $500,000 in a 3% per annum promissory note)May 6, 2015 at 11:49 pm #10439Craig_AdamsParticipant
This from All Access:
SEATTLE STREAMING RADIO, LLC is selling Silent KBRO-A/BREMERTON, WA; KNTB-A/LAKEWOOD, WA; KLDY/LACEY, WA; and K221FJ/TACOMA, WA, until MARCH the ESPN DEPORTES SEATTLE simulcast, to IGLESIA PENTECOSTAL VISPERIA DEL FIN for $600,000 plus operational costs until closing ($13,500 payment for airtime during MAY, $10,000 plus estimated costs of $3,500 per month costs during pendency (to be credited to the total consideration), $60,000 at closing, $40,000 within 90 days of closing, $500,000 in a 3% per annum promissory note).May 7, 2015 at 12:08 am #10440
Craig, this is about the point where Bob Dye would say, “Those short naps are great, aren’t they?”. You might want to make note of the post just before yours. 🙂
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.