Scalia questions place of some black students in elite colleges

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  • #16137
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Wow.

    http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/politics/scalia-black-scientists-scotus/index.html

    Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia raised eyebrows on Wednesday with a comment he made during the court’s hearing of an affirmative action case, in which he seemed to suggest some African-Americans belong in lesser colleges.

    Scalia was questioning the attorney for the University of Texas, which is defending its use of race as a factor in admissions in the case before the court.

    “There are those who contend that it does not benefit African-Americans to get them into the University of Texas where they do not do well, as opposed to having them go to a less-advanced school, a less — a slower-track school where they do well,” Scalia said, according to the transcript. “One of the briefs pointed out that most of the black scientists in this country don’t come from schools like the University of Texas.”

    The attorney, Gregory G. Garre, tried to interject, but Scalia continued.

    “They come from lesser schools where they do not feel that they’re being pushed ahead in classes that are too fast for them,” Scalia said. “I’m just not impressed by the fact that the University of Texas may have fewer. Maybe it ought to have fewer. And maybe some — you know, when you take more, the number of blacks, really competent blacks, admitted to lesser schools, turns out to be less.”

    Garre said the court had already rejected that argument in the past.

    #16142
    LurkingGrendel
    Participant

    I’m almost beyond being surprised by the illogical, not to mention often blatantly discriminatory and certainly inflammatory, opinions (and decisions) passed down via the Court’s conservative justices.

    It must be oddly comforting to not live in the real world with all its complexities and attendant problems. In the world of the conservatives justices:

    • There’s no racism. Modern society is a pure meritocracy.
    • There’s no need for campaign finance reform. Everything’s fine here, thanks.
    • Any checks and balances of any kind upon the process of purchasing a firearm is an assault upon the 2nd Amendment and must be blocked without consideration. Clearly, the answer is more guns.
    • Money equals speech. Certainly those with far more money than those without will have no problem being heard with equal access and facility.
    • Corporations are people. Yup. That’s clearly what the Founders envisioned.
    • Politicians are in no way influenced by the vast sums of money funneled into their campaigns nor beholden to those same donors when they take their place in the legislature. It’s complete coincidence that special interest groups have a death grip on many aspects of public policy.
    • Certain individuals or organizations can simply cite religious exceptions so as to avoid having to adhere to Federal law. Because, of course they can.

    I remember when being a “conservative” didn’t automatically denote someone was completely, totally, scarily, dangerously, fucking, crazy.

    #16150
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    It’s a Libertarian wet dream in progress.

    They really like the idea of having an excuse not to worry about the ills of society. To them, it’s all “blame yourself” and there is a very large bloc of the GOP clearly hell bent on actualizing those ideas at any cost.

    A lot of them do not recognize, and resent the social contract. Many of the arguments I’ve encountered center on consent. If they didn’t agree to it, any imposition on them is a clear violation of their “soverign” person, which is the extreme and logical follow through on their ideas of “ownership society” and “personal responsibility” with a very heavy emphasis on corporate / private ownership of everything, and personal, as in “fuck you, I got mine” type responsibility.

    War is peace, taxes are theft, corporations are people, etc…

    It’s seriously scary.

    These people quite simply do not give a fuck, and what galls me the most is the phrase, “in the real world” comes up in reference to these things near constantly! Remember our long discussions about faith and fact?

    These people have elevated this fantasy into fact, and see anything else as an aberration, unnatural, and something to be rid of.

    On one axis of this, we know the GOP courted every crank, bigot, racist, theocrat, dullard and clown they could. That won them elections needed to solidify the oligarchy in progress. They have been rather successful with that, given our last 40 years of social policy has seen only a few tepid progressive bits of legislation passed, and those passed at great cost.

    The ACA, being case in point here, as the most recent. Stimulus is a close second, tepid, and just enough to keep it all from going to hell, but not enough to validate, in the minds of ordinary Americans, the validity of a very real need to reconsider our current and increasingly liberitarian policy direction.

    I have to write that, because the trends really aren’t aligned with actual conservatism as I knew growing up. The GOP has moved into new territory, with the Bush administration enabling a great many people that should have never been enabled.

    Yet, it’s as if he was never elected! We don’t talk about that, or any other bad outcome we can link to our recent history and economic data. That’s not “the real world”, and this uncanny ability to just turn off reality and impose a fantasy as real is as surreal as it is worrisome.

    Recently, I’ve had a chat or two with the “taxes are theft” people, and it’s simply amazing how far they will go to avoid actually recognizing the value they get out of society, the people, labor and resources needed to deliver it to them. Their excuse, when pressed to justify how and why people should work for free to serve them and provide wealth and opportunity for them to profit?

    Consent. They didn’t agree, so it’s all bullshit theft and the sooner we can be rid of any common good, the better we all will be, and read that as “the better they personally will be” –in most cases. I’ve actually had one or two honestly recognize they may be worse off, but that is the natural, just and true, God says, outcome. (bat shit)

    In their world it’s simple. Everybody is in business, and it’s merit all the way. They ignore all the subtle things that can and will go wrong in such a simple, fuedal society, ruled by powerful corporate overlords, willing to run the place like kings and lords of old did.

    Really, we are back to the core basis for leadership. The United States was radical in how they derived the authority for government. It’s granted by the people with the intent of the people being better for having granted it.

    All other old world basis are unjust in some basic way:

    Divine Right = “God says I’m king, and off with your head!”

    Wealth = “I have the most gold, and so I make the rules, and I’m better, because I have more gold”

    Royalty = “Some of us are born to lead, while the rest of us are born to serve. Too bad for you not having won the genetic lottery.” Inbreeding usually puts this one to bed fairly quickly, but not after some real punishment gets dealt out. Geoffrey anyone?

    Potency / vitality / human prowess = “I can kill any one of you, so I’m in charge.”

    And there are others, all largely flawed, though some basic cultures, tribal ones, may be fairly just and true, depending.

    Truth is, this faction of the GOP completely rejects the American Experiment, lock, stock and barrel. I remain convinced they do this to avoid any reason to actually care about their peers in this world, preferring to be self-centered and free to make their own little world, where who they are isn’t questioned, only their relative status and power is.

    And that really bothers me. As many as a third of us really don’t give a shit about anything other than themselves. And, they really will live worse, if it means also realizing the promise of being freed from any real pressure to do that.

    Something really basic is broken, or has been snuffed, beaten, brainwashed right out of these people, and what remains isn’t pretty.

    Worse! We can’t really have a national dialog about it. What do we see in response to perfectly rational, defensible, and reasonably expressed criticism of Trump, for example?

    ATTACKS!

    Somewhere in this sea of fucknuttery, we’ve lost the distinction between a factual criticism and a fallacious critique of character, or competency.

    When somebody really is an asshole, or psychopathic, or racist, or some other damn thing, citing that reality with their own words and deeds as material support is not fallacious! That’s politics! That’s precisely why we have the First Amendment.

    There is no shield in the First Amendment.

    But, there is this very disturbing trend to always be nice, always be civil, etc…

    I’ll mention Quora here, because that is the default there. At least people can say Trump isn’t demonstrating the character we need for President, but it’s not without an awful lot of pushback and claims all related to “not nice” and “everyone has an opinion”

    Notably, college campuses have been moving down this road, granting people more safety and security from this kind of ordinary social pressure to be better humans. The media is gone. “Always two sides to every story”, translates into “we all have a right to our opinion”, which we do, but we do not have the right to be respected for it, or to express it unchallenged.

    And the media does this, “both sides are equally bad” mess all the damn time too. “But the Democrats” gets rolled out every single time we see somebody from the Republican party shitting themselves in public. It’s as if they HAVE to say it, or something bad will happen.

    Damn right it will. When they don’t do that, they don’t get to be on the TV. Worse, when they don’t do that, people ask simple questions, and the answers to those require that we actually do look at our history and we actually do consider the data we’ve got and actually do have to understand that some of the policy advocacy we see being pushed hard every day doesn’t fucking work!

    And they don’t put the kind of people on TV, who refuse to play ball. They are out. Trump style, “those people have just got to go!” and we find them on little radio stations, blogging, building networks on YouTube, and basically every where the big corporate media doesn’t yet have authority over or own.

    This all plays into understanding how come Trump is so popular with the “shit in their hair” crowd. They see him as validating all of this garbage. He’s wealthy, just the type they have been conditioned to idolize. Run the government like a business. CEO and MBA to the rescue!

    Bullshit.

    He’s an asshole, bigot, racist, theocrat, gambler, etc… and yet he’s up there, demonstrating absolutely no shame at all, and the media is pinned!

    The only way they can actually challenge him is to pull back the curtain on the web of lies and games they have been playing, which leads to those ugly questions again. Can’t have that.

    Or they have to hope he, himself will botch it.

    Interesting position they are in right now.

    So, back to SCOTUS.

    We have Roberts, who the Democrats were brutally pressured into confirming. He’s got a list, and he’s checking it twice, and it’s all about rolling back progress made since the New Deal, taking many things we take for granted today, right along with a lot of the modern world, right back to the 20’s. “The real world”

    This election is about a lot. SCOTUS is primary in that the voting bloc Roberts was placed in the court to exploit gets rendered the minority. Roberts won’t do much to further progress, but his ability to roll it back from the bench, sometimes undoing decades of case law, would be marginalized big time.

    All of us, who are not bat shit, really do need to figure out how to get along well enough to turn out the vote and do it for real.

    And it’s about the overall direction of the nation. Right now, despite a lot of effort, we are still moving toward that mixture of liberitarian ideals with some nice social regression sprinkled on top. We’ve managed to raise the question and implement some modest moves, and the response to that has been all out, ugly, no holds barred, war.

    These people do not do democracy. They want rulers, and they want to be ruled. The world is much simpler for them, and that’s your classic authoritarianism in play right there.

    Even when they personally are worse off, it’s OK, because it’s simple, and they get a stiffy over real power being demonstrated, and they love it when others, who aren’t authoritarian “get taught a lesson” because everybody should be authoritarian! And it keeps the noise down.

    In a more general sense, it’s about giving a shit. The idea of the common good comes with some requirement to actually see our fellow citizens as peers, people, and have some basic human respect, empathy and regard for our society and the many people in it.

    But there is a catch! When people actually do give a shit, they also have some obligation to do their part. And that is what this election is about too.

    About a third of us do not want to recognize any obligation to give a shit. To them, it’s simple. “I’m getting mine, you go get yours, and if you don’t get yours, it’s your fault, and you can’t have any of mine, because I worked for it, and I’m better than you, and I deserve it, and you don’t.”

    This third is loud, favored by our media, favored by wealthy people just drooling over the idea of returning to a state of society where all their self-ego driven visions of how things should go and how much better they are, because of the money they have is reality, unchecked by little bothers, like the common good, or even basic human decency.

    And you know the worst part to me?

    We’ve been saying this every single election for a long time now!

    Authoritarians respect only one thing, and that’s other authoritarians and their position in the overall power structure.

    They won’t rest. Ever.

    And our side? And this is mostly Democrats, but it’s also a fair number of reasonable conservatives, galled at how things are going too.

    We are hobbled, actually abiding by the greater good, actually honoring the process and our founding principles.

    These people do not care. They see exercising power as just and true. Doesn’t matter how either.

    They abuse the rules, abuse the process, lie, cheat, steal, and worse and the only real consideration is the cost of doing that and or the overall rewards for doing so. To them, the “big government” has got to go, and given it’s unjust and untrue and not legit in their minds, there is no basic check on their actions against it.

    To them, it’s “good vs evil” and when dealing with “evil” no holds barred. It’s EVIL, not worth consideration, respect, or deference of any kind.

    This is why they will fillibuster everything, default on our full faith and credit of the nation, commit crimes in office, and every other thing they can to win. To them, it’s total destruction, or “the real world” as they see it. Compromise is for weak people who do not understand the simple things, etc…

    Obstruction is a point of pride! None of it is legit, save for the very basics of a military with which to dominate the rest of the world, and a police to keep the baddies off their lawn.

    That’s what this is all about.

    #16159
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    And it’s about this too:

    http://qz.com/566579/most-violence-in-the-world-is-motivated-by-personal-morality/

    These people, who worked hard to get people aligned with their morality into the courts, want it the way they want it, and they really don’t care about anything else.

    Authoritarians cross all boundaries. Where they exist, problems like this exist.

    …and that’s the appeal of this meritocracy. The more difficult problems of getting along, managing social norms, the common good, can all be set aside, leaving the world simple and clean.

    #16225
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    WOW!

    Just listen to the audio. It’s unbelievable to me that this isn’t getting more traction. The power a SC Judge has is huge. Scalia is unfit to serve if you ask me.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/supreme-court-releases-audio-in-affirmative-action-case/vi-AAgi9JL

    In his own voice! This is 2015. He sounds like 1963.

    #16272
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    I had a hard time playing this one. Finally managed to get it done.

    (VPN issue)

    No kidding! This audio is great GOTV material for sure.

    #16293
    Dxer1969
    Participant

    Ok. I never figured I’d do this this early. Never figured I was worthy you know. I am not the smartest man in the world.. Not on par with you guys. I’ll be honest! But I have to agree with Vit! What he says is dead on! Peace!

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