Sanders Artery Clogged 2 stents All Campaign Events Canceled forums forums Politics and other things Sanders Artery Clogged 2 stents All Campaign Events Canceled

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    I was partial to ICQ myself. Eudora! Such a nice bit of software, and a great time too.

    Has been a long ride hasn’t it?

    Don’t know about you, but I had a lot of fun too, running everything from a junked together 386/25 with 5, count ’em, 5 megs of RAM, to an SGI Indy. Good times.


    Hey, you know I’m still running 98SE on my junked-together Northwood with 1GB RAM as my primary Doom II and audio machine. I slapped that monstrosity together about 15 years ago from components from neighbors and the Habitat for Humanity market since I was a broke-ass college kid desperate for anything sort of resembling computing power.

    There’s still that ’94 Packard Bell in the rack (the one that did Eudora duty) that still worked last time I had it on, but the battery in the Dallas RTC took a dump years ago so the time/date in the BIOS is all jacked up.

    Eudora had a pretty competent (auto-routing!) UUCP component. At least the version I used did (pirated obtained from my school library on 4 or 5, 1.2MB 5 1/4″ disks) but I think it was a customised distro with UUCP as a plugin or external program, or something. I don’t remember, it’s been too long. I don’t believe the default commercial distribution of Eudora supported it out-of-the-box.

    Around 1995ish as a geeky-ass fifth/sixth-grader, despite just about everybody supporting POP 3/IMAP/SMTP by that point, I thought UUCP was hot shit.

    Doesn’t seem like that long ago but it was.

    Did you ever get into AOHell back then? I remember all the hysteria about “hacking AOL accounts” and it being all “illegal” and all that BS. I never considered it “hacking” and never got into warez, but it was just stupid phun for a while. I didn’t have a very fulfilling life back then.


    I don’t hate Bernie. I hate his supporters. I used to be a big fan of Bernie before he became popular with all the kids and Johnny come latelies. I always enjoyed his appearances on Real Time back in the Bush years.

    My issue with Bernie and his supporters is that I place blame on them for disparaging the Dem nominee. Seeing Bernie Bots post stuff like Hillary and Trump being the same?

    And when it was mathematically impossible for Bernie to win fair and square, Bernie Bits were chanting ‘take it to the convention!!!

    77,000 of you fucks in 3 states got a Trump elected.


    You do know there was no “fair and square” in 2016, don’t you?


    I don’t buy into conspiracy theories.

    Bernie lost by a substantial margin. More people voted for Hillary. End of story.


    No need for theories. Clinton’s own emails tell that tale.

    This year, she’s reportedly not on the DNC papers of incorporation. She was in 2016.

    He did great! Over 40 percent of delegates. For a campaign that started in Vermont back yards, 60 points down, it’s a totally respectable showing.

    And I agree with you. The process, biased as it was, was the process. There are rule changes this time around, most of them pretty reasonable.

    But, that’s a digression, the real talk is this Bernie is OK, but fuck those other people bit.

    So, back then we had roughly 40 percent of voters voting no confidence. Not worth it. And we had roughly 70 some K voters who didn’t want to vote Clinton.

    They all have reasons. And they all have agency.

    Seems to me, Clinton could have done just a bit more work and would have been just fine. Actually visiting Wisconsin would have sealed the deal, as would actually listening to her staff alerts telling her the numbers were not there. But, let’s also say she had her reasons and agency.

    It is likely I am as pissed at her as you are “those people.” Both got us Trump, if you want to be entirely rational about it.

    Let’s talk about those people then, because Clinton isn’t a part of it today.

    They are generally living very different lives from the ones you and I are. How do I know? Well, I have actually spoken with a few of them. As as Bernie, others interested in all this. Wasn’t hard.

    Boils down to a basic conflict. You, many others, roughly half the Dem party at present, see all that as a civic duty.

    They don’t. Some of them used to. But they don’t today, and worse! There are a lot more now. Millions. At least a few mil.

    What do we do?

    Serious question!

    Now, I’m ignoring your anger directed at me. Last time, I did the duty. May not this time, if the nominee is Kamila. But otherwise, yeah. Why not?

    To them, it’s different, and the question is, WHY?

    Goes back to those different lives. You, me, most of us here, aren’t living in a shit hole state. We’ve got income that meets needs. We’ve got stuff to lose.

    Those people?

    Either not so much, or they just don’t fear any of it.

    So again, what do we do?

    Of all the campaigns out there, one is reaching out to those voters specifically, no voters, protest voters, and it’s putting a very clear VOTE FOR vision out there.

    We both know who that is.

    The way I see it, why not take the very best weapon we’ve got against Trump and win big?

    It’s not like tons of people are long overdue for some policy aimed their way for once. Decades of fluffing up the top hasn’t exactly gone well, has it?

    On that note, depends right? For a few of us, it has. For the majority, it’s a big “meh” on a good day. Fair number have seen worse, despite being told it’s better.

    So there it is. What to do?

    Being angry with them won’t help with GOTV, nor will blaming them, shaming them, etc…

    Do we have enough otherwise, enough to say Fuck ’em?

    Dude, I do not think so.

    And Trump?

    All his peeps are going to show. They fucking love the guy! And he raised 120mil, which is damn near 5x the best Dem, which is Bernie, followed closely by Warren, both in the mid 20mil range.

    The DNC? Pretty much dead on donations. 7’ish, and that doesn’t really cover debts. Pretty much zero cash on hand.

    RNC? Flush.

    I think taking it personal is harmful. And I think we will lose when we do.

    What to do?


    Missing: “He did great! Over 40 percent of delegates. For a campaign that started in Vermont back yards, 60 points down, it’s a totally respectable showing.”

    You might stop pretending that everyone who voted for Sanders in the primary was a big supporter of his. I have a couple of friends who voted for him simply because they didn’t much care for Clinton, but once she won the nomination, they supported her enthusiastically – not because they suddenly liked her better, but because they were realists, smart people who knew that supporting Clinton in the general election was crucial to the country’s future.

    Most likely, Sanders isn’t going to win anywhere close to 40% of the delegates this time.


    There is a difference between the primary and the general election. And there’s no pretending in any of that. Sanders kicked ass. Not really debatable.

    In this primary, we’ve got more people, many running a similar message. Seems to me, running the guy responsible and most credible for the message makes better sense than the people emulating him. The greater number of players will change the dynamics on percentages, and that’s going to mean looking at other metrics.

    One million individual donations.

    One million phone calls in 10 days.

    One million plus volunteers.


    Secondly, looking at who has their game on, it’s Sanders first by a mile, followed by Warren. The others aren’t even close!

    Sanders is running a general election capable organization right now. Nobody else is. The 2016 one kept in touch and working on software, recruiting people, etc…

    Or… hope we got enough without that kind of outreach. Much higher risk.

    And hope the nominee has what it takes. Biden is looking awful sad. Saw him yelling and pointing fingers at people last week. Not good. Kamila is toast. Warren is doing well, but I’m not sure she’s got the mettle to face Trump when he plays hard ball. Have you seen her when confronted off script? Deer in headlights.


    And this right here is what I’ve been tying to tell you:

    >but because they were realists, smart people who knew that supporting Clinton in the general election was crucial to the country’s future.

    That was not a point of solid agreement in 2016. Today, the numbers on all that have grown considerably. Million ranges now.

    It’s not a point of solid agreement in 2020 either. And that’s where the election will be decided too.

    “Trump is a bad guy” is not a winning strategy. Counting on that will be extremely likely to be a loss.

    Way too many Americans to ignore do not believe returning to the same politics that got us here makes sense for the future of the nation. And that favors Trump, not us.


    Missing: “There is a difference between the primary and the general election. And there’s no pretending in any of that. Sanders kicked ass. Not really debatable.”

    Actually, it is debatable. Other than Martin O’Malley, Clinton had no other real primary opponent. You are fooling yourself if you think at least some of the Sanders primary voters weren’t voting for the candidate named “Not Hillary Clinton.”


    And she should have won by far more than she did. After all, it was she who had the massive political machine, was she who was former first lady, and on it goes.

    Bernie, disheveled socialist?

    No contest right?

    And OF COURSE!! “Not Hillary Clinton” happened quite a lot.

    The question is WHY it happened. Frankly, had there been any meaningful funds and campaign machinery in place in 2016, the story may well be very different. All that got built ad-hoc, in motion. And the difference today is the fact that it largely stayed built, and in motion, just not in campaign mode, technically, to build platform support.

    Fast forward to current times. Say whatever you want, but the Bernie campaign is doing excellent. You don’t get the kind of numbers being posted up without actually being a potent candidate. Already it’s historic, never been realized before, ground game levels. And it’s super early.

    He would have won against Trump then.

    Right now? Strongest against Trump.

    Warren is likely second strongest.

    The others? Ultra high risk. Dubious on a good day.

    It’s an excellent time for progressives. 😀 The vast majority of them are going to work it for all it’s worth too.

    The only reason the Democratic party has any strong VOTE FOR policy visions at all is progressives. Without us, it’s Biden, Klobuchar. Losers.

    Andy Brown

    “One million individual donations.

    One million phone calls in 10 days.

    One million plus volunteers.”

    It’s about votes, and nationally Sanders is trailing.
    Falling further behind, now by double digits.

    Same in Iowa, down by 10 and in New Hampshire by 6.


    We will see. You know how polls that do not disclose their methodology and or detail stats are. Don’t forget who funded them.

    Me? I’ll take the historic and growing numbers. Just learned my name is on a nice “Not Me, US” wall today. Spiffy.

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