Rolling Stone on Trump

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 26 total)
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  • #18342
    missing_kskd
    Participant
    #18343
    skeptical
    Participant

    Agreed.

    Thoughts on how Hillary is going to handle Trump?

    #18344
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    The GOP convention this summer has an erie seduction to me. The train wreck will pull into the station and then…whoomp…who knows!!

    #18345
    Dxer1969
    Participant

    First off, the forum sure is slow today. But yes, Hillary and Donald? That will be a matchup for the ages, no matter what!

    #18350
    Amus
    Participant

    I did not know he was using The Beatles “Revolution”.
    That’s extraordinary.

    It’s almost as if he’s mocking his supporters.

    “But if you want money for people with minds that hate. All I can tell you is brother you have to wait”

    #18351
    paulwalker
    Participant

    The trend has been that whatever Trump says, it is looked upon as “the end”, but just takes him higher.

    I firmly believe this trend will end at some point before the GOP convention. Some are already hinting at his back and forth on Ku Klux Klan supporter David Duke. Not sure if this is the moment, but I believe this moment is indeed coming, and probably sooner than later.

    Then, hopefully we can look back at this past 6 months as an aberration in U.S. political history where most of the Republican electorate simply lost their minds.

    And I will predict now that within the next few posts here on PDX, the overwhelming response will be, “They lost their minds a long time ago”. As so it goes here.

    #18355
    Amus
    Participant

    I’m not so sure Paul.
    I hope you’re right, but the more obnoxious he gets, the more popular he seems to become.

    The really interesting thing to me is that Trump seems to be the darling of the evangelical community.

    Take a listen to this recent episode of This American Life.

    The story I’m referencing begins at 8:10:
    https://youtu.be/GMHb03NL2hA

    #18357
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    “They lost their minds a long time ago.”

    Let’s talk about that just a little bit.

    For me personally, and this goes way back in our discussion here, I see the GOP establishment as not having lost their minds, but all too willing to validate, empower, and elevate a whole bunch of people, who have lost their shit in various ways. Goes back to the Southern Strategy, and in general, mentioned here many times, the idea that the GOP benefits from garnering the favor of pretty damn ugly people, isn’t new.

    Many of us have documented that in, out, sideways, up, down, and you name it.

    So I’ll give you that. Seems a bit odd to call us out on it though. Maybe you aren’t. Hard to read Paul.

    Either way, we did it. Solid.

    Really, this is the year that “other people” are finally joined by ACTUAL REPUBLICANS who are openly admitting to all of this stuff. To me, that’s huge! For year after year, we would see the worst just shitting themselves on TV with basically NO consequences.

    And that goes to the things I find most grating:

    1. Both sides.

    Well, now we know there is one side rubbing shit in their hair, and another side who isn’t. Metaphorically, of course, that means we can finally start to talk about real, meaningful, qualitative differences between the parties. (finally)

    2. No memory of the past.

    It’s as if W never ran for office, and history begins with Obama, and he followed Clinton. On a more micro level, look at Newt, Brooks, Kristol, and others, who are wrong a lot. Not just, “difference of opinion” type wrong, but really fucking wrong, as in, “holy shit! didn’t that guy just say the opposite not two months ago?” type wrong.

    And the worst they get is a little suspension, then they are back on the TV, continuing to be wrong. It’s amazing really.

    3. (and this is a doozy) Two sides to every story.

    The sky is orange! Our coverage tonight at 10!

    This one has done the most damage, and it’s very strongly linked to #1, in that the likes of the worst of us, and who hold very toxic policy preferences, both social and economic –often foreign policy too, and who would normally get laughed out of the room for being bat shit, get elevated to some reasonable status.

    Why?

    Cause ratings, or something. I don’t quite understand this one. Every time I think I do, some wrinkle comes up, and there it is. Still confusing.

    But, what I do know cold, is this need to manufacture controversy means finding the most batty of the bat shit to go head to head with basically everyone else! This is true, even when the case is very clear, which is why I always make the color of the sky joke.

    That shit happens on the TV. Every freaking day.

    Anyway, it’s a bit more subtle than, “those guys on pdxradio didn’t think much of Republicans anyway…” and it’s more like, “can you believe this shit?”

    So, along comes Trump, and it’s perfect! As we’ve seen.

    If the GOP does somehow end up at a brokered convention, who exactly do they put forward, if it’s not “the winner” Trump? Truth is, Trump has bloodied the whole front line! Solid. I mean, left deep marks.

    Quite frankly, amazing sauce.

    And those true believers? Does anyone honestly believe they will go quietly after having felt that rush from having Trump validate their bullshit, while giving the media the bird, and pissing on the party establishment, AND DEMOCRATS?

    I’m concerned. Trump is GREAT entertainment, but I’ve seen something here I’ve not really seen before. And the author of this piece sees it too. Sees some scary shit.

    I’ll put it out here right now. The only way the GOP is going to beat Trump is to post up somebody offering a better deal than Trump is.

    Who can do that?

    Democrats! No joke. The GOP is miles from even playing that game, as the bloody front line clearly shows. The party vision isn’t there, and the non stop toxic framing plays right into the game Trump wants to play hard too.

    Because of all that, Amus has it spot on:

    Can Clinton deal with Trump? Really?

    Can Bernie deal with Trump? Really?

    Bernie has the way better deal, and that’s where my bet is placed. He doesn’t have an ugly history like Clinton does either. But, he’s unknown, and not appealing to the really old school crowd, but winning huge under 35. Clinton isn’t all that appealing under 35, but doing big numbers otherwise, and most importantly, does have more of the old school votes than Sanders might ever have.

    But will that beat Trump.

    He’s a master at the room. Frankly, she kind of sucks. Always has.

    This could be brutal. I’m not entirely sure she has what it takes to go 10 rounds with Trump, and her deal is an awful lot like, “Oh shit, I better mooch some of that Sanders mojo”, rather than something to get people interested and excited about.

    The Trump crowd! They are rabid, ready to go, full on WWF style, looking for that one in a million cage match. You bet your ass they will vote. Hard.

    #18358
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Oh, and I have to put this here too:

    “Make America Great Again!”

    That’s the Trump deal. Never mind the details, we will get to that. Just you wait. Elect Trump, and it’s gonna be awesome!

    Normally, our media and those fine, critical minded journalists would punch a million holes in that, but they just can’t. Why? Because they are as owned as most of our leaders are, and Trump, along with Sanders are the only two out there actually calling that out. Worse, the media is COMPLICIT! Remember all those, “can you believe the lies?” events we’ve had and discussed! Now what?

    Trump, in classic sales minded style, isn’t going to be bothered with selling actuals. Those we could talk about, weigh, value and decide on. He’s selling a feeling, and himself associated with that feeling. That feeling is finally getting “the win” and “teaching other people a lesson” and “getting ours” etc…

    Without a good check on the overall sanity of our political dialog, a long running complaint of many liberals and for sure much of the crowd here, how the hell do you deal with that? More lies? Hell, Trump will just put ’em right out there, point fingers, and he could give two shits who he throws under the bus to do it too!

    This is of concern to everyone, who isn’t bat shit, Democrats, Republicans… everyone.

    Additionally, Trump is actually airing Republican dirty laundry! It’s hilarious, and worrisome.

    For the GOP to get out in front of this, they are going to also have to somehow get past that dirty laundry, and it’s really dirty, and there is a lot of it, and the best?

    All those years of lip service wins only to fuck over the voters time and time again are now coming back in spades! People are angry, as they should be given how hard and often they have voted for people who then shoved those votes right back up their ass hard.

    “Sorry about not getting right on that abortion issue. Next time. But, we did give more to the wealthy, and have those safety net cuts on high priority. Hope you make it to vote next time, hugs and kisses. GOP Oh, and we need 5 more dollars, because Jesus and Baby killers. Thanks.”

    Stupid Party indeed! They really do think people are stupid, and now here we are with Trump airing all of that right in the open for all to see.

    #18359
    paulwalker
    Participant

    Missing, thank you for your reasoned comments. However, you don’t recognize or comment on my main point, that being that Trump will likely implode at some point. Do you agree or disagree, and why?

    #18360
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    You are right! (though I did imply it in the above)

    I don’t think he will implode. He won’t, because his supporters are not well informed, frustrated over years of bad policy outcomes, misinformation, and that impact on their lives. They’ve also been given a LOT of lip service to validate their issues, racism, homophobia, and so on…

    Those people are all in. Not going anywhere. Trump is actually helping them see what has been done, and he’s going to totally validate and focus their anger, and their need too. On him.

    It’s a show, and it’s one they really like, and there isn’t a whole lot the GOP can do about it, unless they want to start coming clean, and if they do that? lol What to do about the establishment and it’s relationship with a lot of powerful actors, whose interests do not align with ordinary people much at all.

    Trump could screw up. Could say something just a little over the top, but I don’t see that happening.

    The media, and the GOP could get after Trump big. Just smear the shit out of him. He’s got a lot of history to work with, but he’s not really running on much of it, nor appears all that unwilling to discuss it. He can pivot any of those talks with far more ugly history associated with his opponents. And his “open up Libel laws” rhetoric is absolute genius. Not sure it’s deliberate, but who cares? It is perfect.

    The media is complicit, right along with the GOP. If they want to marginalize Trump, assuming he doesn’t do it himself, they have one hell of a coming to Jesus party in their future.

    We could see a union of “the establishment”, Dems and Republicans both working to present a case to marginalize Trump. Can’t see that happening, but it could. Doing that might just get them Sanders, which neither wants much, but they may well find they want Sanders a lot more than they do Trump.

    His weak spot, in my book, is foreign policy. Trump is going to piss most of the world off large, and he will do it rather quickly too. We really don’t need that. Nobody does.

    The GOP made Trump, and we all know how, saw it happen, and here we are watching as they even now, as you read this, don’t actually realize what it is they have done.

    He might implode as the race goes on, but he’s got a lot of slack and momentum. Besides, he did bloody everybody up. Who would replace him? Cruz? He’s hated by everybody. Rubio? He’s dumb, and the establishment puppet.

    As many as a third of us might just say, “fuck it” and stay on the train, just because they enjoy the view.

    #18363
    paulwalker
    Participant

    Thanks for that.

    I appreciate you following up. Super Tuesday will be extremely interesting. And likely will make or break the entire election. If Trump continues on, he will be the loser to Clinton in November, if Clinton doesn’t implode. Lots to wait out here. One of the more interesting elections in decades.

    #18365
    radiodork
    Spectator

    So far we have Whoopi Goldberg,Al Sharpton and Raven Simone promising to leave the country if Trunp becomes president. Can we get these promises in writing? Lol

    #18369
    skeptical
    Participant

    I’d suggest that Trump’s popularity is an illusion. It’s akin to asking people people who gave money to Creflo Dollar’s new jet if they think Creflo Dollar is cool.

    The stars have lined up for only this election year for the bat-shit crazy to be heard and media-manipulator/attention-whore Trump was in the right place at the right time to capitalize on it. This hysteria (as in swamp gas sightings) has infected both the GOP presidential primaries and the media reporting on it.

    So, of course it LOOKS like everybody is cool with Creflo Dollar . . . I mean Trump.

    On election day, if Trump’s on the ballot, “moderate” Republicans who are terrified of Trump will vote for Clinton, and the ones on the right disgusted with Trump’s less than family values won’t vote at all.

    What we will see then, is a huge popular vote margin of victory for Clinton.

    #18371
    Dxer1969
    Participant

    Think Skep is right. But my take on it? Why does the media keep putting Trump in the spotlight. Just shut him down and shut him up. They do have the power, right?

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