Ore. bakery will have to pay same-sex couple up to $150K

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Viewing 12 posts - 46 through 57 (of 57 total)
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  • #6201
    duxrule
    Participant

    Why shouldn’t they?

    #6202
    Amus
    Participant

    The KKK is kool
    Who said that?

    Gay marriage is not immoral
    It is to you.
    The rest of us are not subject to that judgement.

    Same sex marriage is not real marriage
    It is not to you.
    The rest of us are not subject to that judgement.

    #6203
    duxrule
    Participant

    I think where Jer misses the boat is that he fails to remember that under our system of government, language or even actions that he may find to be “immoral” or offensive are not just allowed, they are protected. However, for his sake, all is not lost. I can think of several countries out there where he could go and live under codes that are set by the religious leadership.

    #6204
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    It is more subtle than that:

    A baker refusing profanity isn’t being discriminatory to people.

    And the law is clear. No worries for the baker.

    Refusing to make a cake because gay Is discriminatory.

    People do not need profanity. Gay people simply are gay.

    #6205
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    One could argue the baker refusing profanity wants to preserve their reputation for clean products.

    That is OK and a business choice.

    That kind of reputation is seen as good.

    A baker concerned about preserving their reputation as a bigot is different because bigotry is not OK.

    #6206
    edselehr
    Participant

    Amus, I think you misunderstood F&B’s last post. He was asking if the message on the cake could include controversial statements, such as “The KKK is kool”.

    Is a cake baker (or a signmaker, I suppose) obligated to serve customers who require them to explicitly make statements on their products that the business finds offensive? I think this is a valid question.

    #6207
    Alfredo_T
    Participant

    I’m still unclear about rights, if any, to refuse to include a message:

    The KKK is kool

    Gay marriage is not immoral

    Same sex marriage is not real marriage

    Must the baker include those messages if required by the customer?

    I think that where this discussion was going was that if the baker refuses to make the above cakes, citing that he does not agree with the message, then freedom of speech issues can come into play (and the ACLU might even take up the suit). However, if the baker says, “Golly, we are so booked that we can’t fit you in. Why don’t you try the bakery down the street,” then the legal troubles are avoided.

    If a baker were asked to make a cake with a design that appealed to the prurient interest, then the baker might be legally in the right to refuse to make the cake if making it violates city or state indecency laws.

    #6208
    Amus
    Participant

    Amus, I think you misunderstood F&B’s last post.

    I did.
    Thanks

    #6209
    Alfredo_T
    Participant

    There is currently a court case going on where a Denver bakery was approached to create a Bible-shaped cake with a Phelpsian message about homosexuals. The baker told the client that she would bake the cake but that the customer would have to do the lettering himself.

    See: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/01/22/this-colorado-baker-refused-to-put-an-anti-gay-message-on-cakes-now-she-is-facing-a-civil-rights-complaint/

    #6211
    mike_kolb
    Participant

    Deane said….“My take on this might be a bit different. Why not just make the cake for them, take their money, and get on with life.

    Mixing political views and business is bad business.”

    And I believe he’s 100% correct. You can apply your principles to yourself, your family and friends… but choose your battles carefully.

    They should have zipped the lip, made the cake with a big smile, said “thank you” and pocket the cash.

    #6217
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    When you mix politics with your business, you risk offending 50% of your target market.

    A good business person knows this. A bad one doesn’t which is why they are out of business.

    #6218
    Brianl
    Participant

    +1 Deane. Hit it right on the head.

    I was talking to the CEO/President of Figaro’s Pizza (parent company of Schmizza) right when this broke. He put it best:

    “I’m Jewish, but I sure as heck am not going to turn down the money of someone who celebrates Christmas over a pizza.”

    If you look at the core issue, it’s a goofy business practice to turn away a paying customer.

    And Alfredo – you posted, inquiring about the “We reserve the right to refuse service” signs in a lot of establishments. That is primarily used as an out for unruly customers. I’ve had to 86 people before for being obnoxious (in one case, a family where the parents actually encouraged their kids to stand on my tabletops and counters and conduct a food fight), and used that as the justification.

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