Open letter from a very tired Christian

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  • #21192
    Amus
    Participant

    No doubt there are those here who would question the Christian credentials of John Pavovitz

    In fact I do believe Chris brought some of his work up here before.

    Below is his open letter to “Offended Christians” from a “very tired Christian”;

    Dear Offended Christian,

    I’m terribly sorry that your feelings are hurt again. I feel badly about that. None of us likes to be criticized, so I totally get it.

    I know I’ve said some pretty hard words to you recently, and maybe I’ve been somewhat less than “cheery” in my delivery, but that happens when you’re tired.

    And I am really tired:

    I’m tired of hearing you telling gay people that they can’t simultaneously be both gay and Christian.

    I’m tired of having to explain what “Transgender” means to adult Christian people, who I’m quite sure have Internet access and should know better by now that it ain’t “a guy in a dress”.

    I’m tired of arrogant pulpit bullies who believe they’re entitled to tell people where they can pee and who they can marry and whether they really love Jesus or not.

    I’m tired of you regularly dispensing damnation on the queer community, and then offering empty “thoughts and prayers” in the face of tragedy before resuming your normal schedule.

    I’m tired of you being more outraged by red coffee cups and department store restrooms than by poverty and racism and gun violence and our crumbling school system.

    I’m tired of gay people being accused of the kind of predatory behavior that straight men [And Catholic Priests *] have been exhibiting, since the man cave was—an actual cave.

    I’m tired of reminding you that the number of times Jesus spoke about gender identity and sexual orientation in the Gospels—is zero.

    I’m tired of having to explain to people that although I am a Christian, that I’m not that type of Christian; the kind that is generous with damnation and stingy with Grace.

    I’m tired of LGBTQ teens cutting their forearms and jumping off buildings because they’re told by their church friends that God hates them, because their Christian parents told them, because their Christian pastors told them.

    I’m tired of followers of Jesus who don’t seem interested in cracking open a book to see what we’ve learned about the brain and the body in 2,000 years, or to realize that gender identity and sexual orientation don’t equal the word “homosexuality” in the Bible.

    I’m tired of all the time I have to spend undoing the damage the Church has done to queer kids and their families.

    I’m tired of religious folk who seem to want small government everywhere except the bedroom and bathroom.

    I’m tired of Scientific ignorance being treated as if it’s a Christian virtue.

    I’m tired of hearing you preach verbatim the gospel of Fox News.

    I’m tired of high-profile pastors blaming gay people for 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina and ISIS and child obesity.

    I’m tired of waiting for you to show up in this world and actually show the freakin’ love of Jesus to people the way he did and told you to, without excuses or caveats or theological tap dancing to avoid it.

    I’m tired of this wasteful, fruitless, mean-spirited, unprovoked, unbiblical attack on the LGBTQ community, that is squandering so much time and life and beauty in the name of a God who is supposedly Love.

    I’m tired of so many people believing that “Christian” and “bigot” are synonymous—and not disagreeing with them.

    I’m tired of a Church which seems to be so ambivalent toward the teachings and example of Jesus.

    I’m tired of a Christianity that is making me more and more embarrassed to be associated with it.

    So I get that your feelings are hurt. I understand that you’re offended, and that’s not my intention.

    But listen, if you’re going to tell a group of people that they’re going to Hell simply for existing, and you’re going to continually target those people through the Church and the Law and your social media accounts, don’t get angry with me when I tell you you’re being hateful and judgmental and ignorant.

    It could be worse.

    At least I’m not damning you for all eternity.

    Sincerely,

    A Very Tired Christian

    * Emphasis added is mine

    Dear Offended Christian, From a Very Tired Christian

    #21193
    LurkingGrendel
    Participant

    Offered without ironic intent: Amen.

    #21194
    Broadway
    Participant

    >>I’m tired of a Church which seems to be so ambivalent toward the teachings and example of Jesus.

    Matthew 22:37-39 Living Bible (TLB)

    Jesus replied, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. The second most important is similar: ‘Love your neighbor as much as you love yourself.’

    This is the church’s focus, not a fixation on sexual rights. The standard is high.

    #21197
    LurkingGrendel
    Participant

    You are a grade A hypocrite, bigot, and ‘tard. That is all.

    #21200
    Amus
    Participant

    This is the church’s focus, not a fixation on sexual rights

    No, their fixation is on denying them.
    And not all churches, just the fucked up ones.

    #21202
    Andy Brown
    Participant

    Christian bigoted and racist hypocrites are the absolute worst. Their hypocrisy lies in what they believe their rights are. They believe that their rights include the right to dictate to others how to live their lives, and to legislate to achieve this, and to elevate themselves above everyone else, while marginalizing those that they particularly hate. They don’t realise that rights are a two way street, and that while they have rights that cannot be taken away, other people also have rights that they cannot take away.

    The world would be a better place if these people were taken to task. They need to attend a boot camp of sorts which puts directly in their face this inability to understand that equality is not theirs to adjudicate.

    In addition, this hypocrisy is one of the fundamental reasons there is so much hate coming out of the Christian right wing bible thumping group who can not speak their true mind and instead are so afraid of the penalties of their religious dogma that their only course of action is to provide quotes from an ancient book that has been handed down through the generations, each time suffering bad translations at the hands of a small group of people with a severely flawed agenda.

    #21204
    Amus
    Participant

    Barry

    #21208

    I’m unclear who is the “offended Christian”? One of a particular denomination? I notice he took the usual cheap shot at Catholicism, but otherwise his criticisms don’t seem to apply to Catholic thinking and teaching.

    But I’m not going to bother to be offended by an obscure internet blogger looking for donations.

    His reasoning is fallacious regarding Jesus’ words. If Jesus wasn’t quoted condemning a particular behavior or sin then that means he approves of it? That would be a form of cherry-picking as the New Testament should be taken as a whole and all of it is directly or indirectly the words of Jesus.

    All Christians are sinners. Being a sinner doesn’t mean that someone is not a Christian. But telling a sinner his sin is not a sin is a sin in and of itself and is harming the sinner.

    I don’t know where this fellow is coming from as I do not know and have not experienced the type of Christian he is referring to.

    I think he’s missing the point about the purpose of Christianity which is to help souls find eternal life and end up living happily in Heaven forever.

    It’s not easy to be a Christian. It requires discipline, sacrifice, self-denial, and much humility, because we fall so often and have to face the fact that we struggle to live up to our ideals. And nobody who doesn’t want to be a Christian has to be one. Nobody is saying that our faith should be forced on others. What I’m objecting to is those who would change Christian principles and doctrine to please others or to align with their own behavior. That’s not what Christianity is, however. It’s not here to put a stamp of approval upon our lifestyles, but to help us rise above them.

    #21210
    Andy Brown
    Participant

    No doubt, the evangelicals have a racism problem. The evangelical belief that homosexuality is a sin is of no legal bearing. It’s nothing more than a super minority opinion, and those that wish to live by that creed are free to believe whatever they want.

    What you continue to ignore and evade is referenced here:

    I’m tired of hearing you telling gay people that they can’t simultaneously be both gay and Christian.

    I’m tired of having to explain what “Transgender” means to adult Christian people, who I’m quite sure have Internet access and should know better by now that it ain’t “a guy in a dress”.

    I’m tired of arrogant pulpit bullies who believe they’re entitled to tell people where they can pee and who they can marry and whether they really love Jesus or not.

    You, F&B, continue to invade this spot on the internet and have failed every time to convince anyone here that you are the representative of any church nor God forbid part of America that has the right to be a racist and bigot because of your religious dogma. Get over it. You do not dictate the rules of being Christian. Many churches have opened their doors to the LGBT community and if you don’t like it, don’t join. But don’t sit on your pope bacon throne and claim anything because you are nothing more than a single voice and you can not speak for Catholics nor Protestants as a whole.

    #21211
    Amus
    Participant

    Just to set the record straight, it was I who took the “cheap shot” against Catholicism, not the author.

    Only I call it “pointing out the obvious”.

    but otherwise his criticisms don’t seem to apply to Catholic thinking and teaching

    Not so fast there;

    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Catholics-Mormons-allied-to-pass-Prop-8-3185965.php

    This from the cult that turned a blind eye to child molestation for years and years.

    #21213
    LurkingGrendel
    Participant

    Cersei Lannister’s new book on how to properly separate Church and State is a smashing good read.

    #21214
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    Yes, it was I that introduced the forum to John Pavlovitz.

    Hardly an obscure blogger, his growing blog – “Stuff That Needs To Be Said,” is a direct response to Christians, like myself, who have felt for years the hijack of our faith. I regularly read John’s blog, or John’s blog is regularly featured in other blogs I read.

    For the right-wring, conservative evangelical Christian crowd, he’s probably not the blogger you want to read regularly, as you can see by this posting.

    But for me and others, he speaks the words that need to be spoken. To cut through the garbage that so much of Christianity has imploded on.

    Of course when you speak your own truth in a blog, you will be criticized…but John handles it with the same grace, honesty and humility like his blogs.

    I’m glad his voice is growing and being heard. We need more like him in today’s “American Christianity.”

    #21218
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Religion is the root of all evil. Wouldn’t our world be a better place without religion telling people they need to act like assholes in the least and mass murderers in the worst?

    All conflicts worldwide are the result of religion.

    You don’t see Agnostics in the world causing such strife. We are the reasonable ones.

    #21221
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    Vita, while I do agree that religion has played a role, it is ultimately human agenda that creates the carnage we see.

    #21222
    paulwalker
    Participant

    The Pavovitz notes are indeed quite good, and I can relate to most of it.

    However, Vit, I think religion is important, as it offers a passive-restraint on most humans. Yes, it has created much strife, but I would hesitate to even wonder what life would be without it. In that sense, religion is good, and perhaps at the end of the day was meant to be. Simplistic answer? Perhaps. And so be it.

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