November 22, 2016 at 4:36 pm #25139Andy BrownParticipantNovember 23, 2016 at 9:56 am #25149LurkingGrendelParticipant
No, I really don’t expect an answer.
That would imply both courage and honesty. I’ve seen scant evidence of either from the usual suspects. Donald Trump is not even in office yet and his supporters and The Republican Party seem ill equipped and unwilling to confront in an honest manner any of the deeply troubling aspects of his ascendency.
The transcript of the New York Times Q&A with Trump is horrifying on several levels. Not that it’s surprising in any way, we received a pretty clear snapshot of who this man is during the election, but the levels of both narcissism and ignorance on display throughout make me deeply uneasy. It
His vocabulary and manner of speech are below that of high school level, he’s clearly hasn’t given any serious thought or consideration to any of the policy actions he blithely discussed during the campaign, his opinions seem to bend and sway dependent whomever the last trusted person was he spoke with, and as was the case during the campaign, he’s mistrustful to the point of being a conspiracist regarding both critique and empirical information that runs counter to his own viewpoints or what’s in his own self-interest.
If any of the “conservatives” on this board were being remotely honest, they would be as alarmed as I am. The same collection of traits and actions by a Democratic President elect would be eliciting howls of outrage (and fear, and laughter) from every quarter of the conservative world. I’ve said it before, I’ll likely say it again, Donald J Trump is not a Republican. He’s certainly not a Christian. He’s an authoritarian leaning demagogue who took over The Republican party from the inside.
The voices of dissent are in for trying times. The freedom of the press is going to undergo horrendous assaults. The courts are going to be busy. That latter point of course assumes that Donald J Trump or The Republicans plan on even respecting or adhering to the law. There are already a number of signs that indicated they may not.
I’m both well-educated and a student of history. I’ve seen this before.November 23, 2016 at 10:15 am #25151proud2baconservativeSpectator
“The fact remains The KKK and a host of white nationalist organizations, including the actual Nazi party, have been celebrating the election of Donald J Trump.”
The fact remains that these are fringe groups with tiny memberships.
The fact also remains that millions of good Christians and others of goodwill have supported Trump. These people believe racism is wrong, murder is wrong, stealing is wrong, etc. They also believe in being kind and giving to those who need food and shelter. They believe and do many good things. They vastly outnumber KKK and Nazi members.
So what does that say about Trump and his policies that MILLIONS OF GOOD PEOPLE voted for him?
What does it say about Obama that the Black Panthers supported him? What does is say about Obama that black militants who advocated the killing of cops supported him? I say it’s not his fault or the fault of others who supported Obama and they shouldn’t be blamed for injustices of groups or individuals who also supported him.
Also, let’s not forget to add into the mix that the liberal media tends to smear almost all Republican appointees as racists. The “racist card” is played often by the left.
I’ve never made a racist comment on this board and am not a racist yet I have been called one here many times because of my conservative beliefs. That seems to be what liberals do. If you don’t agree with them, you’re a racist. In fact, by stating that I’m not a racist, according to the “logic” used by many liberals, that is “proof” that I AM one.
So perhaps you can now understand the reluctance of Trump supporters to justify themselves to you. You’ve set yourselves up as being morally superior and you’ve closed your minds to any possible good motives on our part. It’s a useless exercise, so we will continue to speak to you from the ballot box, and maybe eventually you’ll get the message.November 23, 2016 at 10:49 am #25152Andy BrownParticipant
Mostly all hyperbolic baloney from bacon. So you claim to never have made racist comments on this board? I’ll debunk that later when I have the time but meanwhile perhaps you could explain why you have been banned from this forum at least six times.November 23, 2016 at 12:09 pm #25153LurkingGrendelParticipant
I display a general garment, and Pope Bacon finds a way to claim it was custom tailored. Interesting, that.
You’ll note he didn’t address the bulk of the questions raised, deflected and dissembled from others, offers inaccurate false comparatives, and continues to ignore the most significant questions raised.
Failing to stand up to racism and bigotry is tantamount to support thereof. I.e. you may not be one, but you are supporting those who inarguably are. Or at the least, willing to accept their support if it furthers your own goals. A significant portion of Donald Trump’s entire Presidential campaign was run on a platform of fear, bigotry, racism, and ignorance. Yours and others continuing unwillingness to confront reality was a problem then, and is now very likely to prove a far more serious one for the entire country now.
White Nationalist organizations, including the KKK and the Nazi Party are celebrating Donald Trumps’ victory. His victory has emboldened the worst elements of our society. There’s been a huge spike in hate crimes since his Election Day victory. Claiming otherwise, or offering false comparatives as a limp justification for failing to stand against such activity, only shows you to be fundamentally dishonest and ethically compromised and hypocritical.
Such organizations have never before embraced a Presidential candidate from either party. It’s both frightening and embarrassing. This is not what the United States of America is supposed to be about. Those elements need to be, loudly, challenged. It’s happened without exception in the past; now it’s not. That dynamic alone is nightmare inducing.
Whether or not such people small in number is beside the point; and the one point you continue to duck n’ bob n’ weave in a childish attempt to avoid.
As for what you clearly consider some kind of logical coup de grace, here’s a considered retort:
Q: “What does it say about Trump and his policies that millions of good people voted for him”?
• One, I would question your definition of “good”. To my previous point, whether or not you or others are personally racist or bigoted or misogynistic or mean spirited or a bully or a narcissistic or lie with every breath, you voted for someone he is and does. You and others are seemingly willing to overlook any number of ethical lapses of both a personal and professional nature, and for that matter any kind of word or action no matter how patently offensive if not dangerous, as long as you “win” some isolated and divisive point of contention. It’s frightening.
• Two, there were even more millions of people who voted for someone else. So, what’s your point, exactly? As Donald Trump did not even win a majority of the voting electorate, as a matter of practicality and real politic it would be smart of him to seek consensus wherever possible, and seek out the most highly qualified people available regardless of their political ideology, to buttress is alarming lack of experience. Instead, he’s building a far right coalition around him. One that those very same White Nationalist organizations, as comparatively small in number as they may be, are also celebrating. That, again, is something we’ve never before seen in this country. Whatever one could say about the development, it’s certainly nothing good. That you and others continue to deny that dynamic is even an issue, is a big part of the issue.
• You and others love talking about these supposed Trump policies as justification for voting for someone so odious and so patently unqualified for the office he sought and ultimately won. What are those, exactly? The tax breaks for millionaires and billionaires? The elimination of the estate tax, which again only enriches the already extraordinarily wealthy? That wall that will never be built to address a nonexistent problem? Those manufacturing jobs that will never come back no matter what he said during the campaign? Running up trillions of dollars to the Federal deficit? Is it cheering him on as he attacks many of the norms of our Democratic process which in turn undermines the foundations upon which the country was founded and built? Or attacking first Amendment protections as he’s too thin skinned to handle critique? (Keeping in mind, that “lying” mainstream media is simply quoting him, holding him accountable for his own words, and asking pointed questions in reaction to his own words and actions. Which is, of course, their critical role in our Democratic system of governance.) Or, is it him using the office of the Presidency to continue to enrich himself, his holdings, and his allies while in turn doing literally nothing for the white, middle class voters who foolishly supported him?
As has been stated from the outset by myself and others. I am not rooting for him to fail. Quite the contrary. Yet to date, he’s done very little to allay any of the very real, not at all hyperbolic, fears that myself and tens of millions of other American citizens have about this man.
Many people are scared. I’m sorry for you that you find that funny, or have so little care for those whom disagree with you that you’d be so callously dismissive and unendingly dishonest.
It’s not my job, nor anyone else’s, to quietly fall in line. Until at such time he begins behaving in a manner that inspires some level of trust, he’s not likely to receive any from another rather than the already sold. I think Donald Trump is dangerous. He’s already making dangerous decisions. You go right on feeling smug. History would suggest you’re not going to have a whole lot to feel smug about when the dust settles.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of The President, or that we are to stand by The President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public”
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