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This topic contains 31 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Andrew 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

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    Actually, it is a large enough body of people to win elections and advance much better ideas. This isn’t about me. It is all about US, inclusive.

    And guess what?

    You are just going to have to deal.

    Deal equitably? Maybe no Trump.

    Dick moves? Likely more Trump.

    Your move.

    I am backing those ideas 100 percent. No reason in the world not to.



    Oh, and you cannot have it both ways. If I am some isolated loon, then I am no real worry and for sure not a cause for Trump. Same for all progressives, Sanders, Cortez et al.

    On the other hand, if I am right? We are right?

    LOL, you bluff is getting called. Progressives mean it.

    We are going to find out.

    And I will lay thick odds down right now: The same politics that got us here are no where near as popular as the politics I am all about. Not even close.

    And playing it that way?

    Well either the party has the votes or it does not. Wins or loses on it’s own. You don’t need people like me, until you do.

    And when people like me are needed, there are terms. The terms are we represent all Americans, not just a few of them, economically.

    Simple, ordinary, straight up business. I am perfectly happy to play that game.

    Are you?



    Missing: “Actually, it is a large enough body of people to win elections and advance much better ideas. This isn’t about me. It is all about US, inclusive.”

    Evidence? AOC won in a lefty-left district that Trump lost by 55%. That’s on the extreme left on the US political scale, nowhere near a “mainstream” point of view.



    Isolated loon.

    Cutting off your nose to spite your face is not a viable game plan to win a beauty contest.



    Rail Grijalva
    Ro Khanna
    Ayanna Pressley
    Rashinda Tlaib
    Ilhan Omar
    Alexandria Ocascio-Coretz
    Pramila Jaypal

    Seven small money, people powered politics in the house. They will caucus with some others next year.

    Congress has a M4A caucus now

    Public support for M4A continues to grow beyond a majority, and is currently majority among Dems, Indies, Republicans

    I could go on and list a ton of stuff.

    Many of the people involved in the 80 plus progressive campaigns are xurrently heading up or are contributing to advocacy, action amd organizjng groups today.

    Hey, like I said, either the party has the votes, or it does not.

    If it does, it can afford to tell all of us to go pound Sand, like Clinton did. And it won’t matter, though it clearly did for Clinton. Maybe the next nominee will ask for votes, not just expect them, because Trump.

    Meanwhile, we are just gonna keep building. Takes a lot. Big money comes pretty easy, but it has ugly strings attached.

    Nice progress all things given.

    No worries here. Where progressives are running the platform and asking for votes they are winning. That will continue.

    My real support goes to the people looking to represent all Americans. Like I said, I have zero reason to change that.

    That divide? Well, now it’s advancing to the house. Not going anywhere and everyone is perfectly happy to support the party exactly as much as it is willing to support ordinary people.

    2020 is Dems to lose. They really could. And they really don’t have to.



    Raul Grijalva – AZ 3rd; Trump lost by 30%
    Ro Khanna – CA 17th; Trump lost by 54%
    Ayanna Pressley – MA 7th; no info but Boston, presumably very liberal
    Rashinda Tlaib – MI 13th; Trump lost by 61%
    Ilhan Omar – MN 5th; Trump lost by 55%
    Alexandria Ocascio-Coretz – NY 14th; Trump lost by 55%
    Pramila Jayapal – WA 7th; Trump lost by 70%

    These are all liberal districts or very liberal districts; AZ 3rd is the least. And again, that’s my point: these people you hold up as part of some new movement represent extreme lefty left congressional districts. We’ve always had a few extreme lefties in Congress. This is nothing new and not evidence of any new trend. You might as well point to some extreme right-wing candidate winning in Oklahoma as evidence that America is getting more conservative.



    None of that actually matters!

    We don’t beat Trump and the GOP by basically running mini me types.

    We win by advancing ideas with massive public support, actually represent the people, not big money.

    And there again is the divide, amd it is not going away.

    Choices from there.

    Trump, or no Trump from there as well.



    Nice dodge Hannity.



    Missing: “None of that actually matters!”

    Of course it matters! It was your supposed evidence of a shift to your viewpoint. I contend your viewpoint is a extreme minority point of view, not a a shift in mainstream attitudes.

    You said above, “People are no longer in support of the establishment economic vision.” By “People” you presumably meant not a tiny fringe minority of voters – but that IS what it seems to consist of, based on the last election. Those people you listed represent very liberal areas; their election does not represent any sort of national political shift.

    The 40 seats Democrats picked up in Congress last month do represent a shift – and they were NOT part of this fringe left-wing group you claim no longer “support of the establishment economic vision.”

    Elections matter.

    Like Herb, you are welcome to believe without a shred of evidence that Jesus and the Easter Bunny are really right-wingers, but they are just beliefs, not facts.



    No, it really doesn’t.

    The dynamic in play here is subtle, but important. When people get the progressive platform presented to them in a competitive way, it works. And it works, because it is best aligned with the issues the nation faces right now too.

    A whole lot of big money, and supporters absolutely do not want to talk about any of that.

    Tough. It’s gonna get talked about.

    At this moment, the party, and most of mainstream media isn’t interested in seeing that discussion. We don’t talk about the poor people on TV, but we do on TYT.

    We don’t talk about who was funded by who, why and shitty legislation on TV, but we do person to person, in a growing number of direct advocacy organizations, etc…

    It’s taking time. The truth is, most of us know the party machine is eyeballs deep in the money, dependent. And we know about when that all went down too.

    So, our own political machinery is being built as you read this. it runs on small money, and it’s beginning to bear real fruit. Soon, a new media check org will launch. Volunteers all over the world actually. It’s purpose will be ordinary people framing on all of it. News, opinion, facts, advocacy all written from the labor point of view.

    See, Clinton actually paid that dumbfuck Brock to do that, only it was a lot of lies. Progressives are going to do that same thing, only keeping it really simple. X got paid Y, voted for Z, which impacted you on 1, 2, 3, and your alternatives are, A, B, C. Wash, rinse, repeat.

    Want to know who owns under 40 in political discussion right now?

    It’s not either party, nor Cable news. 😀

    The future isn’t Biden, or any of these corporate clowns. As people age out, and others age in, the shift, this divide you see is going to become more of a focal point. It’s not going away.

    Honestly, I put some of the basic pieces, vision, plans here years ago. Was laughed at.

    Every single one of those things have come to pass and more.

    Most of the basics were planned out late 2016. It’s been execution, organization and growth since then.

    I’m in touch with local progressives here. Most of us are connected nationwide too. Party meetings, a mini-caucus, and other things are all going on. Growth each time, bottom up, person to person. Got a few things to say about that later. After a few other things have happened.

    Again, just like you, yourself seemed to lecture over and over Andrew.

    This is what it looks like. And I might as well tell you the same thing I told Vitalogy, and that is you really aren’t capable of even leaving a scratch.

    I, and a lot of others, numbers growing every single day, are done. Not going to advance the same 40 some year old politics that got us here and basically fucked the kids.

    Might take a decade, but the party lost me as a supporter the moment it was made clear it’s not really going to perform economically for the people as it has socially. That’s not OK. Isn’t going to work. Will leave way too damn many people out, and doing that simply is not necessary, nor even sensible. Greedy and cruel is what it is.

    I can toss a fuck the GOP vote, and am happy to do so, but that’s it. All the real work, money, advocacy is aimed 100 percent at reform. The future, not the economically failed past. A Clinton run would get a protest vote from me this time though.

    We could be doing all of this without Trump, and it would be easier in some ways, definitely less painful, and harder in some other ways.

    She didn’t have to lose that election and should not have. That’s not forgivable.

    Anyway, it’s super good entertainment, usually leaving me a few shareables. Thanks for that.

    Just know we mean it. I mean it. The party economic path both puts our social progress at risk, and it’s done a lot of harm. Definitely time for reform, or worst case, something else that can compete.

    Either is fine, though I do prefer reform.

    What we won’t do is sit down and shut up, nor give blame and shame any consideration at all.

    The way I see it, anyone seriously worried about another Trump term has more than sufficient cause to give a shit about the unnecessary economic trouble going on right now, and if they don’t?

    They deserve precisely what comes. We all do. I care about the party, and leadership issue / concerns exactly as much as they do mine. That’s how most progressives are going to play this. Lots of room to put good policy together and go win. No real excuse not to.

    We can get along, and we can do politics for all of us, not just a few select people here and there.

    “those other people” are generally our kids, people next door, the ones shoveling your shit, and more. They deserve and need solid representation just like anyone else, and progressives are about making sure that is gonna happen.

    Happy holidays!

    It’s been fun, but I have better things to do.



    Hoping something will happen is a lot different than it actually happening!



    Given one can watch it happen, yeah there is a difference.



    But we haven’t watched it happen yet! You’re hoping it will. That’s simply making a prediction. Like: I hope I win the lottery – I just KNOW I’m going to win it this time!!!



    Who are you kidding?

    Lots going on, growing.

    And I am doing my part. Lots of people are.

    Like I said, you are not gonna see it much on the TV.



    When are we going to see it on election day?

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