August 1, 2015 at 5:13 pm #12763RobPParticipant
Maybe Ed can go back to radio…on second thought, maybe not.
Meanwhile Alex Wagner, Touré, Abby Huntsman & Krystal Ball begin their journey back to irrelevance. Have a safe trip.August 1, 2015 at 7:00 pm #12764paulwalkerParticipant
This is about two things, really. First Brian Williams is the new face of MSNBC. They will make him the premiere anchor for the network and he is probably OK with that. So from that standpoint, makes sense.
The 2nd thing is, (and this won’t be popular here), is liberal programming doesn’t generally work. Radio and TV have both shown this. I am making no political commentary here, just a media commentary.
Will be interesting to see if MSNBC makes some inroads in coming years.August 1, 2015 at 10:06 pm #12766
Liberal programming works just fine. Part of the problem with it and big media is the programming runs in conflict with big media.
We do not generally broadcast economic policy and news framed from the labor point of view, save for some seen on public media. Anyone who can watch the BBC, not just the exports, but the news as they do it, will see the difference.
Liberal programming without this is weak and often seen as not so worth it.
There are more factors in play too. Let’s just say the likes of Comcast, et al are not all that jazzed about airing populist advocacy, news and opinion because it will directly impact them.
Conflict of interest.
If we are to make media observations, let’s make a more inclusive set.
Another one that runs in conflict is media policy overall. The likes of Comcast do not cover things like the FCC and issues like Net Neutrality either.
On the other hand, HBO and it’s subscription nature lends itself nicely to all of these things and John Oliver had seen great success on all of them too. Unabashedly liberal too.
All of our big media has been diluting things down. It is noticeable now. FOX is looking a little less crappy and it’s not that FOX improved either.
I don’t watch much as a result. Many young people don’t either. Entities like HBO, TYT, Sl Jazerra, etc… have been moving to a freemium modwl, subscription, and are building on Internet means largely side stepping the big players.
Has we not seen the massive consolidation we have, the state of politics on traditional media would look a whole lot different today.
Alas, they just don’t cover that, leaving a lot of people with the idea of what works and what does not framed through a big media lens that has little to do with the actual appeal and or dynamics possible today.
The CBC and BBC both enjoy a freedom not present in the vast majority of US traditional media that is telling to anyone willing to spend a little time outside the bubble here.
Good news is liberal media is alive and growing nicely outside that bubble.
I share that a lot and I discourage big media of all kinds. It does not serve us well and being colsolidated is a rape of the 4th estate.August 1, 2015 at 10:08 pm #12767
All of which is why I cut the cord and took down the antenna and just have an amp in my daily driver car.
Don’t need em. They are hostile to me, more harm than good.
Suck that shit down if you want. Just be sure you swallow it all and don’t choke too badly.
:pAugust 2, 2015 at 12:06 am #12769RobPParticipant
Glad to hear you cut the cable and terrestrial radio “cords”, missing.
You seem like an intelligent person but you lose that cred with your puerile retorts like the one above.
Just one more cord to cut: your connection to this forum.August 2, 2015 at 6:34 am #12774
Feel free to make a factual rebuttal.August 2, 2015 at 9:09 am #12775
That is too bad about Ed’s Show bring cancelled. There is no mention of Chris Matthews or Rev Sharpton. Chris is pretty opinionated. I set the DVR to record the shows I like and watch them back at night, so I guess one less show to record (Ed’s). But I do know MSNBC’s ratings have been poor. One other factor is that in the case of FOX vs MSNBC, FOX is a staple on satellite and cable. Even the lowest tier’s get the FOX channel. MSNBC often is treated differently as the channel is only available in higher tier’s, so everyone does not get MSNBC. But at least some of the shows are still going to be on. It is also be interesting to see if the shows that stay are going to have a softer tone? I would hate to see MSNBC to become a clone of CNN. I kind of agree that Liberal talk does not hold the ratings that Conservative talk does. That is unfortunate for the moderate to liberal viewers. There is so much Conservative talk and little Moderate to Liberal talk. I bought a wifi radio to listen to Liberal/Moderate talk as there is still some in bigger markets across the US. The stations cannot be received OTA here. Oregon seems to have KBBR North Bend that is Liberal and that is about it on AM. I hope Ed will show up elsewhere, but it may only be on radio.August 2, 2015 at 9:14 am #12776
That is a good point. I stream a lot and I have a Roku and get BBC World and other news channels not available on most cable and satellite services. I am kind of a news junkie since my days in broadcasting. Most young people I know stream everything. They watch little traditional TV and do not listen to OTA radio. So things are changing. A lot of people get their programming outside the box.August 2, 2015 at 9:46 am #12777edselehrParticipant
And that’s the answer: the party of “traditional values” remains the larger consumer of traditional media (TV and radio). And when you look at the Republican demographic, it makes sense: workers on the job site listening to daytime radio; 8-hour shift workers getting home, putting up their feet, and leaving the TV on until they go to sleep; retired people that leave the TV on all day.
Radio and TV ratings are becoming less and less indicative of nationwide political attitudes.August 2, 2015 at 9:50 am #12778
The numbers for under 30 are not pretty. I’ve watched how they consume media and what they consider as worth their time and talking heads clashing on the TV ain’t it.
Ed actually does consistently present from the blue collar point of view. He can be found on http://wegoted.com I suspect he will work on some other arrangements over time. Last time I checked, he’s got a subscription option for archives, etc…
Support those who support you. What I did was take a portion of that ugly and rather useless cable bill and put it toward great programs I enjoy and like to share. A few bucks a month on a recurring basis really matters to those people, and it’s a few percent of their listener base who does it too.
And back to Rob’s comment: It’s not like I completely ignore big media and radio specifically. KNRK gets some listening time out of me each month, as does KEX when I feel like laughing at Beck, Limbaugh, and friends. Or maybe calling in a few advertisers for the Stop Rush guys. (you are welcome –fucking KPOJ over was fun wasn’t it?)
But, they aren’t the center or much of an authority anymore. I don’t like being lied to and I don’t like that a handful of people have such editorial influence on our politics, and I really don’t like how that same handful of people decimated radio, sucked the soul right out of it putting a lot of people on the sidelines.
Rewarding that makes very little sense.
Liberals did what they’ve done the whole time and that is trend younger, and use new media to get there. They were first to make use of the Internet, and they continue today with great programs available that way. It’s one hell of a lot easier to turn somebody on to good programming with a quick share they can check out right then, or when they want to stream, or add to their download queue than it is big media.
Actually having to sit down, take time, and dedicate it for broadcast is old news. Sucks. Being able to work it into little bits of downtime is so much better. Get a great phone, setup streams and wifi downloads with things like Stitcher, and it all changes! That drive home, or wait in line, or other activity suddenly becomes stay informed or catch up or be entertained time.
Not to mention the barrage of ADS. Some are OK, but broadcast is horrible now. It’s worth a few bucks just to get away from the majority of them, and or get more material, or just know the people who are trying to add value are getting paid for doing that.
IMHO, the primary reason liberal programming does not get the ratings conservative programming does is linked to:
1. Affirmation. Are you a racist, bigot, theocrat, self-interested asshole? Great! O’Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity and many more serve that shit right up every day. Those people need the normalization and they will write the letter, make the phone call, tell the friend, buy the product and cast the vote regularly in return for it too.
Liberals don’t need that as much as they do need action, advocacy, discussion of the issues, etc… And a lot of that runs in direct conflict to big media anyway, which dilutes the value overall. Many of the great voices very seriously improved once they moved onto subscription and or Internet media.
2. Demographic alignment. Older people trend toward broadcast. ’nuff said.
3. Conflict of interest
We don’t put real liberals on the TV. We don’t put poor people on it much either. Watch “Meet The Press” lately?
Might as well call it “Meet The Republicans” for all the meaningful dialog found there as of late. How many times has Newt, just one of many examples, fucked completely up, done his 30 day vacation only to return as if NOTHING HAPPENED and he was NEVER WRONG?
Watching that garbage is some good entertainment, like FOX is, but it’s not meaningful in so many terms I’ll just leave it there.
4. Here’s the big one!
Liberal programming is not generally compatable with two concepts that dominate big media today:
a. Both sides
This is simple. We can’t actually discuss the fact that one party shits the bed every other day, and on the few times it has to be discussed, there always has to be some compensation about it, like the one time the other party shit the bed 40 years ago…
b. Two sides to every story
This one is also simple. It’s about elevating bat shit nuts opinion and advocacy to some position of validity when it’s otherwise not deserving. “experts say” or “here is a strategist who says” or more generally, just always putting two or more clashing heads on the air.
Often there is a lot of opinion surrounding facts. Doesn’t mean it’s valid, or even rational. We very rarely evaluate all of that on big media, and in fact, frequently erect a shield around, “everybody has a right to their opinion”, which is true, but what is also true is everybody gets held to account for it too.
The same talking heads, and one example would be Chuck Todd, or David Brooks, forever reinventing history, making seriously bent arguments and nobody ever actually asks them meaningful questions or quotes their own words back to them for some dialog about how come it’s one way this week and another way a month ago, whatever…
Ha. Well, maybe Trump will actually stir things up some. Can’t wait. He’s gonna go there. I think he’s nuts, but I also think he’s got balls and has no problem calling anyone out at all. Great fun!
But we generally don’t debate on the TV anymore. Questions are carefully phrased as are the interaction rules so that we rarely see a back and forth that involves meaningful decisions and policy positions.
So why bother?
Again Rob, buddy. You’ve shown up here spouting off some stuff, and you generally slink away when called on it. Why is that?
Afraid of those mean old liberals?August 2, 2015 at 9:44 pm #12785
There is a lot of moderate to liberal talk around, but a person has to go looking for it. You generally will not find it on big Corporate radio as stated, but there is MSNBC (for now), Free Speech TV, and many other streaming TV services. For radio, with a wifi radio, there are still a few dozen stations that run the moderate to liberal talk. It is hard to find it on the car radio driving down the freeway in most areas though. Then Sirius/XM has some. The old liberal talk shows on KGO is no more after they were sold. Cumulus cleaned out and sent most hosts out the door quickly. That sent the listeners in SF into a frenzy, but Cumulus held pat on their change over. My son never listens to radio in his 20s. He steams everything. If this is the future for radio, it will be in real trouble in another 20 years.August 2, 2015 at 10:37 pm #12786
In searching the internet for more info, Politic’s USA reports that the old MSNBC we knew and loved is no more as of last Friday. Ed Shultz is indeed gone and Chuck Todd will take that place as of Monday. The word is Al Sharpton, Chris Hayes, and Lawrence O’Donnell are also on their way out. Rumors also that MSNBC may be making a deal to bring Keith Olbermann back. Don’t know why, as he did not leave on the best grounds. But it looks like those of us that have enjoyed the talk on MSNBC, the shows the way we have liked them is history. Tuning in on Monday should be interesting. If MSNBC turns out to be a disappointment, like I feel it may be, then channels like Free Speech TV or a streaming service will be it as far as Liberal/moderate TV goes. Radio, there are more choices streaming. But MSNBC trying to compete with CNN is not going to be an easy feat. I wonder if NBC will pour more money into MSNBC? It is really a shame, but NBC is corporate and like any broadcaster, they are there to make money. MSNBC does need to negotiate with satellite and cable to be a channel available on the lowest tiers like CNN or FOX to compete. Many with lower tiers do not get MSNBC.August 4, 2015 at 6:08 pm #12819paulwalkerParticipant
Not sure of the MSNBC business plan, but watching them today, I found very weak news programming. Anchors unsure of themselves, lots of fumbling, etc. Perhaps they are just waiting for Williams.
But Brian will not save this network on his own. He needs back-up.
Right now, MSNBC is a last place third, by a longshot. Any fans they had as “the liberal” news network will be lost. They have a big challenge ahead.
Yes, I understand (and this is to you Missing), that this is becoming not the traditional news service these days, but my comments are directly aimed at the multi-millions that are put into these cable networks. The future is dim.August 4, 2015 at 6:26 pm #12820
Roger that Paul.
Grim indeed.August 5, 2015 at 12:30 am #12830
I don’t see how MSNBC can compete with CNN, if that is what they want to do. Plus there are many all news services out there. I listened to Ed’s latest podcast and he has no bad feelings against MSNBC. Programming changes he said and you have to be ready for things like that. Apparently he must not have been under a contract. But Ed stated that he has hired a lot of people and has plans for more talk and his podcast. He did not elaborate beyond that, but he may be looking at going back into radio. He has plenty of money, so whatever he wants to do, he will. I don’t see Ed going away.
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