Medicare For All and Free College Tuition are Wildly Popular Policies

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  • #39083
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/08/medicare-for-all-free-college-tuition-abolish-ice-polls-bernie-sanders-socialists

    Quote:

    Seventy percent of Americans said they support a single-payer or Medicare for All health insurance system — including 85 percent of registered Democrats and 52 percent of registered Republicans. Compare these numbers to 2014, when only 21 percent of Americans thou

    #39085
    Andrew
    Participant

    …and yet, candidates who run on those issues lose badly in elections outside of deep blue areas. Gee, people overwhelmingly support Medicare for All but won’t bother to vote for candidates who run on it??? If you’re right and eligible voters really do support these things overwhelmingly, who cares if they feel that way if they won’t bother to come out and vote?

    #39086
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    For now. We got a nice runway. Get back to me on that stat after the party stalwarts actually get behind great policy.

    Money has an awful lot to do with all this, and the big money funding both party establishments is not on board with saving the public a few trillion on health care. That is why progressives are not running with it, and are still winning a nice enough share.

    Gee, wonder why that is?

    Like I give two shits what the money people thi k. They will live. Ordinary Americans won’t without sane policy. Everyone knows it, or knows someone struggling, or dead because of it.

    As I said, ISSUE NUMBER ONE

    #39088
    Andrew
    Participant

    If eligible voters who say they love Medicare for All don’t bother to vote for candidates who support it, who gives a rat’s ass whether they love it or not? If you choose not to vote when you can, your views mean nothing!!!

    #39089
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    It’s pulling left, you will see the voters improve over time, it’s all building quite nicely.

    #39090
    Andrew
    Participant

    Really? What are these voters waiting for do you think? Why would they tell a pollster they love Medicare for All, then when they hear a candidate advocating for it in the strongest possible terms, not bother to vote for her?

    #39091
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Are you opposed?

    #39093
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Who’s going to pay for it?

    #39094
    Andrew
    Participant

    Am I opposed to Medicare for All in principle? Yes and no. I support a decent European-style universal healthcare system, like France’s, if I could pluck any health care system from a magic cloud and impose it. I’m not sure “Medicare for All” is really our best choice.

    My big problem with “Medicare for All” is that it is far, far more complicated to move to than its proponents make it seem. Bernie suggests that all we need to do is pass a one-sentence law stating simply, “The eligibility age for Medicare is now 0.” And that will fix EVERYTHING! Rainbows and unicorns for everyone!

    But it’s far more complicated than that – even putting the difficult politics aside. Here’s an example: a recent proposal Bernie put forward for his “Medicare for All” system would assume a 40% cut in fees to providers. How does that work??? How do doctors and hospitals – who are businesses too – survive a 40% pay cut? Doctors who go into debt to the tune of $200,000 don’t do so assuming 40% reduced payments from what they make now. Who could afford that?

    You’d need to find a way to make medical school cheap or free, like the Europeans do (which is how they can afford to pay their doctors so much less than we do: their doctors don’t come out of med school with crippling debt). And you’d need a big federal subsidy for existing doctors and hospitals who are going to make less – probably hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars spent.

    Even if that stuff weren’t incredibly complicated to restructure, how can you ever get political support for such huge federal expenditures, not even counting all of the other new expenses of “Medicare for All?” The Affordable Care Act was a raindrop compared to the hurricane a true “Medicare for All” system would involve – and look at the crippling opposition the ACA inspired. Oh, you say, everyone LOVES the idea of Medicare for All – so political opposition will just disappear? Fat chance, I say – but I’m a political realist, not an idealist.

    #39095
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    And even if it was passed, a lawsuit would be filed and SCOTUS would eventually rule 5-4 against it.

    #39096
    Andrew
    Participant

    Passing a serious “Medicare for All” bill that requires such huge changes to our health care system and billions if not trillions of dollars of new federal spending seems politically impossible. But if we could reach a threshold where it were politically possible? Then you could add more justices to the Supreme Court if need be to support these new laws.

    Reaching that threshold though is going to be steep political climb.

    #39097
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Are you against?

    The other matters are good discussions, but not the core question I asked.

    Re: Paying for it

    We do that now. It would be cheaper to do M4A, as the rest of the world knows. Even resource and money strapped Cuba does it, and exports good doctors, BTW.

    We currently spend twice as much as the next most expensive systems in the world, with those costs escalating.

    I could go through all of the others, but am really interested in for or against.

    #39099
    Andrew
    Participant

    It sounds like you aren’t interested in the practicalities of switching to a “Medicare for All” system. OK.

    If I could wave a magic wand and change our system to “Medicare for All,” which would include likely trillions of dollars federal spending (at least temporarily) and a massive amount of changes? No. I would rather have something better, like the French health care system.

    #39100
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    You would be wrong in that assumption.

    Ok, opposed to M4A, but not to a reform of some sort.

    The French spend half what we do, BTW. Their core system looks an awful lot like M4A, also BTW.

    In the French system, add on plans cover all sorts of things, but not primary medical care. Sort of like how Medicare add on plans work.

    #39102
    Andrew
    Participant

    As I said, I don’t think M4A or a “French-style system” is politically possible in the US right now. I’m waving away that issue and just going pie-in-the-sky: which system would you want? M4A is not the one I would choose if I had a magic wand.

    Big difference between Medicare and the French system: the French system has an Obamacare-style mandate (sort of). Medicare does not. And under the French system, the government gets to set drug prices. Medicare cannot.

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