November 13, 2014 at 9:16 am #3072
As we find ’em in discussion, let’s accumulate them into a list.
First up: Objective Morality
This is a concept or reasoning tool, highly idealized, but not actualized in any way I can find.
Post to this thread when you’ve got something we’ve hashed over and over. Somebody wanting to get an item removed can start a thread with that purpose and let’s get after it.November 13, 2014 at 9:35 am #3074jerry1949Spectator
I thought it was self-evident that there is such a thing. Stuff like “thou shalt not murder” and “thou shalt not steal.”November 13, 2014 at 9:45 am #3075duxruleParticipant
Whatever you say, Inspector Javert.November 13, 2014 at 9:50 am #3076
If you want to get that one off the list, you need to present an argument. Start a thread and make your case.November 13, 2014 at 10:06 am #3077Alfredo_TParticipant
How about ANY system of thought where the practitioners start out with some ideological position that they want to reach, and then they develop “scientific” arguments to support it?
I am thinking of nice folks, such as:
1) Creationism/”Intelligent Design” proponents (Ken Hamm, Ben Stein, et al)
2) Climate change skeptics
3) People who fear “modern” developments, such as vaccinesNovember 13, 2014 at 11:49 am #3082Andy BrownParticipant
That’s like drawing the curve and then plotting the data points. Utterly inept and typical right wing methodology.November 13, 2014 at 11:59 am #3084
Totally agreed Alfredo.
Got an idea to lable these things in some quick and easy to understand and discuss way?
Generally, we can say irrational, but that is too broad. Not potent enough.
@F&B, I have a thread running too. Bring your example and arguments. The point of this is to weed out useless basis, forcing us to either bring new ones out, thus improving all of us, or surrender positions that really have no rational basis, also improving us.
Or, we can be honest and place it in the belief or preference box and understand what that means in terms of speaking with authority or implied authority on the related matters.
An easy example is God Says. Nobody anywhere at all can offer anything other than a personal testament. That is fine to do, but not authoritative. Clearing out those things should focus discussion to a more productive end.
You said this is your video game. Yeah, I get that, as do others.
Time for us to level up some and give the new software some use worthy of Dan’s efforts.November 13, 2014 at 1:47 pm #3092Alfredo_TParticipant
“thou shalt not murder” and “thou shalt not steal.”
I don’t want people to steal and I don’t want people to murder. Most people in society agree with these sentiments. However, the murderers generally don’t have a problem with murder and thieves generally don’t have a problem with stealing.
On the subject of stealing, I recently watched Captain Phillips, which was a pretty good film. The Somalian pirates shown in the movie do not feel that what they are doing is wrong. The only issue that they have is that they are the ones doing the dirty work and putting their lives at risk. From their perspective, there is no other way; they need to please their crime bosses, and they need the money. From the perspective of the crime bosses, there is nothing wrong with coercing poor, starving men into looting merchant ships and even with killing the men if they don’t deliver.November 14, 2014 at 9:21 am #3130
That was a good movie!
And yes, that’s it exactly. As far as I can tell, any morality I’ve encountered has some dependencies on culture, one’s perspective, etc…
So the question on the other thread is basically, “Can anyone show an example of morality where that’s not true?”
That would start the discussion to validate the idea of there being objective morality. Right now, it’s a mere reasoning tool. Concept on par with the idea of Unicorns.
Of course, like unicorns, having that idealized tool can be useful to reason with, but it’s not a valid basis otherwise.November 14, 2014 at 9:51 am #3131duxruleParticipant
Les Mis? Shoot me. The best song in the movie comes 45 minutes in, then we have to listen to Jackman and Crowe croak and caterwaul for another two hours. It’s part of my life I’ll never get back. But I digress…I would also like someone to explain to me how these “morals” are exclusively Christian, when their chronicling took place thousands of years before anyone called a “Christian” even existed.November 13, 2016 at 10:25 am #24846Andy BrownParticipant
Clearly we have some updates.
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