October 16, 2018 at 1:32 pm #39828
1. True, but they do have a long term lease on it.
2. True, but they were warned of the limitations of trying to carve out a single identity that way. I’m sure they would tell you it’s been a fantastic success, but overall they still can’t cover a lot of the metro outside the 107.1 signal.
3. The translator is now able to be a fill in status since they began their HD3 presence on KQAC. However, they haven’t filed to replace the expired CP to take K296FT to 99 watts, increasing east west coverage (no change to north south coverage), so it’s still non fill in. But by itself, it’s a stretch to say they can feed it via the net when it is not a fill in for 107.1 but rather a fill in for KQAC. It’s a grey area. But (read on)
5. “Could an AM signal even if relocated be a more reliable way of feeding on air the 107.1 translator?”
A noncommercial educational FM translator, that is commonly owned with the primary station, may deliver the signal to the translator by any means, including satellite delivery. So, the AM, after petitioning the FCC for non comm status is complete, can be the primary station and can allow them to feed the full fidelity signal to the 107.1 site via the internet like it now feeds 91.1 which could continue to broadcast the same programming but wouldn’t be the primary station. The requirements are that an FM translator may rebroadcast an AM station only if the translator’s 60 dBu service contour is within the GREATER of (1) a 25 mile (40 km) radius circle from the AM station’s transmitter site AND (2) the AM station’s 2.0 mV/m contour. See 47 CFR Section 74.1201(g).
Bottom line is that by carefully relocating the AM, that becoming the primary station for XRAY programming along with 91.1, can allow them to clean up the feed to 107.1.
Think of it as 91.1/1360 as the AM/FM combo and K296FT is a fill in translator for 1360. Their presence on KQAC doesn’t really play into it with that analysis nor their co-broadcasts on LPFMs.
I still think they don’t understand the expense and time it takes of building a new tower(s), so if they are working on co-locating I hope they make sure they are compliant with the 25 mile/2.0 mV rule.
It’s not too confusing, but it is expensive, complicated and risky. Further more, if Class C4 materializes and shakes up the entire grid in Oregon/SW Washington, 107.1 may become unusable. It may be that they’re overreaching their means, but it may not. I’m not in their loop anymore, but I do know there are several responsible types over there and they’re doing OK financially, but I am not confident they have a clue what relocating an AM can cost or the time it takes.
October 17, 2018 at 12:53 am #39843
- This reply was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by Andy Brown.
Here’s a thought: If the FCC removes third adjacent protection, maybe they can relocate on one of the 970 towers. If nothing else, they should be able to reach the 107.1 translator from there. They’d probably have to re-license to a different community though.October 17, 2018 at 1:42 am #39847
They don’t need to “reach” the translator with an OTA signal as I explained above, they just have to locate within 25 miles and be inside the 2 mV/M contour and they can feed the 107.1 any way they want, as long as the AM is re-cast as a non comm. Besides, using an OTA AM signal would sound like shit on FM and don’t think HD-AM because that would be super expensive (besides, it’s a moot point if you can feed it using any method).October 17, 2018 at 10:41 am #39849
“They don’t need to “reach” the translator with an OTA signal”
Is that the case when the translator frequency (107.1) is outside of the NCE band?October 17, 2018 at 11:06 am #39850
I don’t think the band has anything to do with it. As I understand it, (Andy, please correct me if I am wrong) The contour you are supposed to reach is the underlying factor. Topography can potentially interfere with your ability to reach the full contour. If you cannot provide a city-grade signal to part of that contour, it would be hard to feed a translator OTA. You can feed a fill-in translator with another source in order to provide the quality service that part of the market needs. Also, if you are an AM with a FM translator, you are not feeding the FM a mono AM signal. Kind of defeats the purpose of having the FM.October 17, 2018 at 12:05 pm #39851
Think of it as 91.1/1360 as the AM/FM combo and K296FT is a fill in translator for 1360.
I think that is the key; 107.1 would no longer be a translator for 91.1. It could be made an “AM revitalization” translator for 1360. I am still unclear on what the strategic purpose of the 1360 signal will be. Will 1360, in earnest, be used to extend the reach of X-Ray programming to the Westside and rural areas? Or, will 1360 simply be a vehicle to allow the 107.1 translator to increase power and possibly move to another location (that is, the 1360 frequency won’t be announced on the air)?
October 17, 2018 at 1:18 pm #39854
- This reply was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by Alfredo_T.
“A noncommercial educational FM translator, that is commonly owned with the primary station, may deliver the signal to the translator by any means, including satellite delivery. So, the AM, after petitioning the FCC for non comm status is complete, can be the primary station and can allow them to feed the full fidelity signal to the 107.1 site via the internet”
So … 107.1 is currently owned by MetroEast, with a long term lease to XRAY (CEBS). Flying Ant LLC is buying AM1360. If Flying Ant gets the FCC to approve it being Non Comm, do Flying Ant and CEBS have to become one entity for this to work? And, then would the long term lease from MetroEast be sufficient or would the newly merged XRAY/ANT have to also purchase the translator from MetroEast?October 17, 2018 at 2:27 pm #39856
jr tech: “Is that the case when the translator frequency (107.1) is outside of the NCE band?”
Fill in translators:
Signal delivery to the translator. Generally, a primary FM station’s signal is simply received off the air at the fill-in translator’s site, boosted in strength, and reradiated on the assigned translator channel and frequency.
A commercial fill-in translator may receive a primary station’s signal via any terrestrial transmission method, including (but not limited to) microwave, phone, internet, and dedicated fiber optic cable. Satellite delivery is prohibited. These requirements also apply to noncommercial educational translators in the reserved band (88 to 92 MHz) that are not commonly owned with the primary station.
A noncommercial educational FM translator, that is commonly owned with the primary station, may deliver the signal to the translator by any means, including satellite delivery.
Non fill-in translators:
Signal delivery. Non-fill-in translators relaying commercial FM stations must receive the signal off the air, unless a waiver has been granted to feed a “white area” translator by other terrestrial means. A showing of the “white area” must be presented in the application for construction permit, requesting waiver of the signal delivery requirement.
Noncommercial educational non-fill-in translators operating on Channels 201 through 220 that are owned by the licensee of the primary noncommercial educational FM translator station may use alternate means to receive the primary FM station’s signal. Non-fill-in noncommercial educational translators on Channels 221 through 300 are prohibited from any alternative methods of signal delivery, including programming feeds by satellite. See 47 CFR Section 74.1231(b).
Screamer: “I don’t think the band has anything to do with it.”
Yes, it does in the case of fill in translators. A fill in FM translator may rebroadcast an AM station only if the translator’s 60 dBu service contour is within the GREATER of (1) a 25 mile (40 km) radius circle from the AM station’s transmitter site AND (2) the AM station’s 2.0 mV/m contour. See 47 CFR Section 74.1201(g). This limitation applies to all applications being filed by AM licensees for FM translator stations in 2016 and 2017 as part of the AM Revitalization effort.
Edit add: An FM fill in translator for an FM primary only needs to keep its 60 dBu inside the primary’s. There is no distance rule.
Screamer: “If you cannot provide a city-grade signal to part of that contour, it would be hard to feed a translator OTA.”
Not true. Many fill in translator transmitter/antenna sites are located on hilltops where the primary can feed it from one side but the primary signal on the other side is shadowed by the hill. The primary’s theoretical contour extends beyond the hill into the shadowed area but in reality there is no signal there. A translator on the hill top can cover that area as long as the translator’s 60 dBu doesn’t extend beyond the primary’s theoretical 60 dBu.
Alfredo: “will 1360 simply be a vehicle to allow the 107.1 translator to increase power and possibly move to another location”
That’s distinctly possible, but as has been pointed out by radiogeek in the post above this one, a lot of paperwork has to be shuffled first.
radiogeek: do Flying Ant and CEBS have to become one entity for this to work?
I don’t see any other way around the rules of co-ownership. The current primary station KXRY is owned by CEBS. The translator is currently non fill in status and not co owned. If Jefferson Smith is sitting on both the CEBS board of directors and the Flying Ant board of directors, that is a violation. 1360 is currently a commercial station.
radiogeek: “would the long term lease from MetroEast be sufficient or would the newly merged XRAY/ANT have to also purchase the translator from MetroEast?”
There’s the rub. Does the KQAC HD-3 regurgitation of XRAY programming may make it capable of being a fill in translator and sufficient for a power increase, but it’s not co owned and therefore (see rule I have now quoted 3 times) can not be fed any way but OTA.
I’m thinking a lot of paperwork has to be filed and a lot has to change before the FCC is going to approve the sale, change the AM to non comm and approve a power increase and alternate feed to K296FT. This is all educated conjecture on my part. Your opinion counts as much as mine. Read the linked section of the rules and let us know what you think. Oh, and I forgot to mention the white space rules which probably don’t apply in this case, but are another way to allow feeding a translator by alternate means when it doesn’t otherwise meet the requirements to do that.
We’ve run over a few minutes. Thanks for staying late. Class dismissed.
October 17, 2018 at 3:09 pm #39858
- This reply was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by Andy Brown.
Always appreciate the ‘learnin’ time,’ Andy!October 17, 2018 at 3:21 pm #39859
Indeed! thanks AB, going to bookmark the post.October 17, 2018 at 4:41 pm #39861
Thanks, this stuff is always fascinating.
While I no longer have a dog in any of these fights, my last recollection of XRAY was that the BOD a while ago hired Jefferson Smith to be GM, and I don’t know if he is still on the BOD of CEBS. I’ve never been able to easily find who is on the board of CEBS as they’ve not been very transparent. I guess if I really cared I could look at the IRS filings or the OR Sec of State records.
So it’s possible he’s not on both boards at the same time, while being up to his neck in both. Who knows?
It would be ironic beyond words if XRAY was on AM, as the original push for XRAY came from the demise of KPOJ as a lefty talk format. In fact, it could be a very good marketing spin (if not an expensive one).October 18, 2018 at 12:47 am #39869
I’m sorry Andy, I posted my response after reading the previous page, having forgotten about this one and hadn’t gotten to your post yet.January 28, 2019 at 1:23 pm #40819
I have been checking regularly, yet I have heard no activity on 1360 kHz. The “1360 kuik” sign is still up at the Hillsboro Airport terminal building, as are the satellite dishes, the microwave STL dish, and the remote pickup unit antenna.January 28, 2019 at 4:05 pm #40820
The FCC backlog will take a few weeks (or more) to wade through.
Today’s Daily Digest began posting stuff submitted a month ago. Had anything been filed it will take a while for it to be listed.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.