It's time to improve Democrats

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)
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  • #26487
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    So it begins. Bet your ass I’m on this.

    Mere opposition to Trump is not enough. We need effective opposition, and that means a move to improve the position of labor and the middle class in politics.

    Progressives are seeking real power and leverage. This is one of those efforts, and I’m 100 percent in support.

    #26499
    Andrew
    Participant

    Right, I know the story: there’s some silent “progressive majority” out there that currently doesn’t vote because candidates aren’t “progressive” enough. Get candidates out there who actually talk about raising taxes on the rich, reigning in Wall Street, and single payer health care, and they’ll vote in droves, ushering in some new super-majority of progressives in Congress.

    One little problem: the candidates who took this approach in 2016 did worse than the ones who took a more moderate approach:

    http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/27/13716060/senate-democrats-economic-populism

    FYI, America has only rarely had a “progressive majority” in Congress. Democrats may have controlled Congress most of the time between 1932 and 1994, but that’s because for most of that time, liberal Democrats allied themselves with southern conservative Democrats. But southern conservatives gradually abandoned the Democratic party for the Republican party – a big reason Democrats have been out of the majority most of the time since 1994.

    Sorry – don’t see the populist approach working in the future. Didn’t work in the past. Maybe 2018 is the time for the ultra-liberals to try it and get it out of their system so we can get back to reality by 2020.

    #26502
    paulwalker
    Participant

    The best hope for democrats at this point is NOT a progressive candidate, but a moderate candidate that can appeal to Obama democrats and appeal to those who can’t stand Trump. Don’t know who this will be at this point.
    But Bill Clinton fit this mold in ’92. The Clinton name is beyond us at this point, but there must be some democrat who can step in here. I would like to hear some options. If there are any…

    #26503
    semoochie
    Participant

    Why don’t they just run Hillary again. She won last time! All she has to do is not make the same mistakes a second time and by that time, Trump’s approval rating will be so low, she can probably win it just with the Republican vote! 🙂

    #26505
    duxrule
    Participant

    For all that is sane and holy, please put the Clintons out to pasture, and look for some new blood! Keith Ellison, Jeff Merkely, Tammi Duckworth, someone that’s in touch with the 21st Century. ANYONE except a Clinton.

    #26506
    edselehr
    Participant

    Rest assured, the Clintons are done with national politics. Hillary never enjoyed campaigning like Bill did.

    #26507
    Andrew
    Participant

    I think “moderate” may be the wrong word. “Pragmatist” may be better vs. “idealogue.” Many saw Obama as a moderate, but I think he was a quite liberal guy on many issues – but also a pragmatist. In other words, if he thought he could have gotten single payer health care passed in 2009, he would have signed the bill from Congress – but he realized how impractical that was.

    Bernie by contrast is an idealogue.

    #26508
    LurkingGrendel
    Participant

    I agree w/ Andrew on both counts.

    One of my main issues with Bernie was one of the few characteristics he shared with Donald Trump. Namely, firing people up by saying things he knew were completely untrue for purely political reasons.

    One example of many: Bernie railing against the ACA and claiming he would implement a better option, up to and potentially including universal health care coverage, was going to happen never point never. If you know even a little bit about how bills become law, that’s an indisputable fact. Put simply, The Republican Party would never point never agree to any of it at any level.

    He knew that. He said it anyway; as it fired up the oft times lunatic and utterly ill informed Democratic base. Whom did that kind of activity politically damage?

    Hint: It wasn’t Donald Trump.

    #26515
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Yep!

    #26537
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Being about some strong ideas?

    Yeah. That he is.

    Over half the nation is experiencing poverty now guys. The last 30 years of left economic policy has not performed for most people.

    Social progress? Yeah! Got lots of that.

    Support for those ideas, and or strong variations on them will only grow from here.

    #26538
    Andrew
    Participant

    Doug, where do you get “Over half the nation is experiencing poverty now?”

    According to the 2015 census, the national poverty rate was 13.5%; other sources peg it a little higher, to 14.3%.

    http://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/what-current-poverty-rate-united-states

    That’s still too high – but also a far cry from “over half.”

    #26540
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    I’m progressive, but also pragmatic. Or as I like to call it, being a realist. The future of progressives or Democrats does not lie on going more left. That actually limits the numbers of voters in our tent. What the spoiled and utterly unrealistic Bernie Bots don’t get is that you don’t get 100% of your wants! You jerks could have had 85-90% of your wants with Hillary but that wasn’t good enough. So instead, rather than taking the 85-90%, you guys chose 0%. Some say even less than 0% if that’s possible.

    If Democrats want to win, they need to figure out how to appeal to those pesky uninformed voters who chose Trump over their own best economic interest.

    I have a feeling that only happens with life getting even worse those rust belt losers.

    #26544
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    No way. It’s gonna be left, or ugly.

    #26545
    Andrew
    Participant

    But where’s the proof, Doug? Can you give us an example of when Democrats have EVER won a national election by “going left?” I wouldn’t use FDR, by the way; one of his campaign promises in 1932 was to balance the budget – seriously! And that was one of his very first acts (after the bank holiday) when he took office. Obviously, his fiscal discipline didn’t last all that long…

    But FDR was also a pragmatist, someone who was willing to try just about anything to fight the Depression. He was no liberal idealogue.

    #26546
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    “It’s gonna be left, or ugly.”

    Guess what? It’s ugly beyond belief. And the KSKD’s of the world are responsible for trump.

    Your kind of bullshit is why trump is president.

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