How do children rasied "Godless" stack up?

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Viewing 15 posts - 61 through 75 (of 95 total)
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  • #6481
    Broadway
    Participant

    >>You are confusing personal conviction with truth
    Not true.
    John 14:6
    Jesus said, “I am the Road, also the Truth, also the Life. No one gets to the Father apart from me.
    Just conveying the message…Jesus said He was the Truth.

    #6484
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Fuck.

    Ok, once again…

    Somebody says somebody else named John said Jesus said, “I am the Road…”

    That’s all hearsay Broadway. You can believe, and you do, and that’s fine. You appear to have elevated that belief to fact, doing precisely what I just said; namely, confusing conviction with fact or truth.

    And it’s all entirely subjective.

    Saying it over and over and over doesn’t really change any of those realities. Sorry.

    #6485
    jerry1949
    Spectator

    Fact is fact whether it’s verifiable or believable.

    I have a frog in my pocket.

    It’s absolutely true or absolutely false.

    You don’t have to take my word for it. You’re not bound to believe me. But just because it can’t be verified to your satisfaction doesn’t mean it’s not a fact, and the same goes for wheter Jesus is the The Way, etc. The person who sees his own religious beliefs as fact is not necessarily confused, though it of course does not mean others should take them as fact just because he says so.

    You can’t say religious beliefs are not facts. The best you can do is say you’re not convinced they are facts and are not obligated to accept them as such.

    #6488
    edselehr
    Participant

    Then why cite Jesus at all? If truth is subjective, then one can claim anything they want, anytime they want. You think that attributing things to Jesus “proves” that they are true, just on its face.

    Well, those of us in the science-based world think that a scientifically-derived preponderance of evidence does a better job of revealing truth than a third-hand account that’s been translated many times of events that may or may not have happened 2,000+ years ago.

    #6489
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    lulz

    I get to say whatever I want to.

    And if you can’t actualize it, then it’s just some personal conviction you have.

    Subjective, not authoritative in any way.

    We can falsify that frog. It’s possible to establish that in an objective way given we can make observations and apply the scientific method.

    We can’t falsify god. It’s not possible to establish god in any objective way.

    Hell, you can’t even convince me you believe. Ever consider that? You can assert it, and we can take that on… wait for it! Faith. For all I know, you could just be trolling. See how that works?

    #6493
    Broadway
    Participant

    >>Faith
    The fundamental fact of existence is that this trust in God, this faith, is the firm foundation under everything that makes life worth living. It’s our handle on what we can’t see.

    Hebrews 11:1 Message Version

    #6495
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    It’s like Pokemon. He’s got his battle cards all lined up, and just deploys them as needed.

    #6498
    skeptical
    Participant

    #6499
    jerry1949
    Spectator

    And if you can’t actualize it, then it’s just some personal conviction you have.

    Subjective, not authoritative in any way.

    I didn’t say it was authoritative. I said it wasn’t and I said I can’t obligate you to believe me.

    All I’m asserting is that it could be that something that I believe on faith is indeed an objective fact. Because I can’t prove it, it doesn’t rule out the possibility it could be factual.

    #6502
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Unicorns, faeries, and the one ring to rule them all could be factual.

    See how absolutely useless that is?

    #6506
    jerry1949
    Spectator

    No I don’t see how useless that is because I wasn’t trying to prove anything with my faith beliefs.

    And I know there is one ring that rules them all, but no unicorns or faeries. JRR told me in a vision.

    But I think there is a little difference between fiction and mainstream religion accepted by millions. There is a basis for some credibility.

    #6508
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Like what basis?

    #6517
    edselehr
    Participant

    “But I think there is a little difference between fiction and mainstream religion accepted by millions”

    Yes – only one gets tax-exempt status and constitutional protections to discriminate in the name it’s acolytes favorite book.

    #6520
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    The journey of faith will be different for each individual. I’ve known atheists who became Christians and I’ve known Christians who became atheists.

    Reza Aslan, is a pretty smart guy: He’s an Iranian-American writer, scholar of religious studies and a professor of creative writing at the University of California, Riverside. He is a member of American Academy of Religion.

    He’s got quite a personal story to tell and has, for me, keen insight to the historical Jesus. But he also understands the culture from which Jesus lived.

    Historians, from many faith and non-faith traditions, confer Jesus lived, and as one pastor friend has told me, “He (Jesus) lived a distinctive life.” I would agree.

    How Jesus saw himself can be a bit harder to understand because the gospels are reflections back on his life, many years after Jesus’ time.

    Think of your own life. And after you’re gone, a handful people you knew ended up talking to a gifted writer 20-30 years after your death. They listen to your friends stories about you and then writes a book about your life. Not so much based in fact, but more of expounding the person you were some years earlier. It’s reflective and meant to give others, who want to know more about you, an opportunity see a bit of your world through those that were close to you when you were here.

    That is pretty much how the gospels are written. And it was a very common way to write back in the first century. That is why scripture is often called a narrative. Sermons, as one scholar has put it.

    When we talk about “God” or however one wishes to call the divine, we can’t ignore the experiences of others who come in direct contrast with our own beliefs. We need to give them room to disagree, question and even scoff, that there is no God. That is simply being human, and I get that.

    I don’t have pity on those who have no belief and I don’t overly praise those who do.

    I love what science has discovered up to this point. I love that we are able to see into deep space and that it raises even more questions.

    I believe in God because science, for me, helps me see the grander scheme of something much greater than me. That gives me things to ponder and I find myself in some of the best conversations with people who don’t believe because I give them that space. The best part for me is when they are done telling me about their non-belief, they ask, “so what do you think?”

    I love that question.

    #6525
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    Hear what?

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