How Bad Do Mass Shootings Have To Get?

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 104 total)
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  • #20706
    edselehr
    Participant

    Dork, do you think pipe bombs should be illegal?

    #20707
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    States with weak gun laws and higher gun ownership lead nation in gun deaths. Read it and weep.

    http://www.vpc.org/press/states-with-weak-gun-laws-and-higher-gun-ownership-lead-nation-in-gun-deaths-new-data-for-2014-confirms/

    Newly available data for 2014 reveals that states with weak gun violence prevention laws and higher rates of gun ownership have the highest overall gun death rates in the nation, according to a Violence Policy Center (VPC) analysis of just-released data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.

    In addition, states with the lowest overall gun death rates have lower rates of gun ownership and some of the strongest gun violence prevention laws in the nation. However, even in these states the human toll of gun violence is far above the gun death rate in other industrialized nations.

    #20708
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Video from the nightclub as the shooting began. Listen to the gunshots, nobody stood a chance, even the good guy on the premises with a gun.

    There’s just no reason anybody needs to own a weapon like this.

    http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/06/13/orlando-shooting-snapchat-video.cnn

    #20709
    radiodork
    Spectator

    .

    #20711
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    At least four regular customers at the gay Orlando nightclub where a gunman killed 49 people Sunday morning said Monday that they believe they had seen the killer, Omar Mateen, there before.

    “Sometimes he would go over in the corner and sit and drink by himself, and other times he would get so drunk he was loud and belligerent,” said Ty Smith, who also uses the name Aries.

    He saw Mateen at the club at least a dozen times, he told the Orlando Sentinel.

    “We didn’t really talk to him a lot, but I remember him saying things about his dad at times,” Smith said. “He told us he had a wife and child.”

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/gunman-visited-gay-nightclub-a-dozen-times-before-shooting-witness-says/ar-AAh0blk?li=BBnbcA1

    Maybe this guy was so demented, he was actually an angry closet gay who couldn’t deal with his situation and had to lash out? And ISIS is just a cover?

    #20713
    LurkingGrendel
    Participant

    Anything’s possible, I suppose. In the absence of hard data it’s only natural to engage in speculation, though I really wish the media and others would knock it off in public forums. It’s really not helpful. It many cases, it’s actively harmful. For one example, see Donald Trump who dove right into the deep end of the sewer pipe and began offering heaping helpings of ignorance, fear mongering and demagoguery while the police were, literally, still pulling bodies out of the club. #YouStayClassyRepublicans!

    It’s certainly not uncommon for those whom are the most enraged, most vocal, most openly bigoted towards homosexuals, to turn out to be gay themselves. Consumed my fear, anger, self-loathing and even external hatred. All, of course, fueled by religion. That’s practically become a meme among many arch conservatives and many of the most obnoxious bible thumping folk.

    The shooter’s self-identification appears, and I stress appears, to be a horrific mix of perverted religious beliefs and murderous gay bigotry. I have little doubt some form of mental illness is probably wrapped up in all of that as well. Almost by definition, you have to be deranged to open fire on another person. Much less hoist up an assault rifle and mow down dozens of innocent people in a night club. The fact ISIS actively hates gays and murders them at every turn was probably a nice positive/bit of self justification for this dip. Per the FBI it’s pretty clear he had no formal ties of any kind to a terrorist organization. The proverbial (and basically unpreventable) Lone Wolf attack, etc.

    As the verifiable reports about him continue to come to light I have no doubt we’ll learn about any number of nutty things about this guy.

    And we’re once again learning what kind of a country many Americans are apparently completely content to live in as they offer up the same lame evasions and ineffective platitudes, metaphorically shrug, and them go about their merry way.

    Until the next time. And the next. And the next after that.

    For some people, it will apparently take losing someone in their own family to gun violence in a similar incident before belatedly coming to the realization that having military ordinance readily available from one end of the country to the other has likely not been a great idea.

    Reagan was right on this issue. He, too, felt strongly there was no reason at all for that kind of weaponry to be available to private citizens and fought for an assault weapons ban. It’s too bad the party that claims to deify him can’t be bothered to actually follow his example in any meaningful way.

    #20714
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Rachael Maddow and Richard Engel just raised my issue around the fact that the killer was at the club numerous times, more times than needed to “case the joint”. I would think one or two visits to a facility would be enough to case the joint.

    I think this is more about gays than it is ISIS.

    #20715
    edselehr
    Participant

    It’s about ISIS to the extent that the right doesn’t want to make it about guns, or about violence against the gay community – both topics where their position is beginning to erode.

    Especially after Sandy Hook, when there was a moment that it seemed we might make some headway on assault rifles. I think that scared the shit out of the NRA, and they are doing everything they can to preempt the discussion and make it about “Radical Islamic Terrorism”. Good thing The Donald is such a sucker for that kind of thinking.

    #20716
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Not only was this a gay club, it was Latino night. So this target ends up covering all the hot button issues that divide us: Guns, Radical Islamic Terrorism, Gays, and Latinos. Very, very deep divisions among Americans.

    Donald Trump could not have asked for a better hand to be dealt at the table while making anger bets.

    And then there’s this:

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/orlando-gunman-had-used-gay-dating-app-visited-nightclub-witnesses-say/ar-AAh0eVN?li=BBnb7Kz

    The gunman who attacked a Florida gay nightclub had attended the club before the attack and had used a gay dating and chat app, witnesses said.

    Kevin West, a regular at Pulse nightclub, said Omar Mateen messaged him on and off for a year before the shooting using the gay chat and dating app Jack’d.

    But they never met — until early Sunday morning.

    West was dropping off a friend at the club when he noticed Mateen — whom he knew by sight but not by name — crossing the street wearing a dark cap and carrying a black cellphone about 1 a.m., an hour before the shooting.

    “He walked directly past me. I said, ‘Hey,’ and he turned and said, ‘Hey,’ ” and nodded his head, West said. “I could tell by the eyes.”

    #20717
    Broadway
    Participant
    #20718
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Fuck off.

    And, you’re not Pro-life.

    My second statement should be more offensive to you if you had any kind of heart. But you don’t.

    Which is why you’re more offended by the first statement.

    #20719

    You’re a bully.

    He has a right to express a perspective different than yours and should be able to do so without being verbally molested by you.

    You’re exactly like a bigot who intimidates people who are different he is to not play in the same sandbox or swim in the same pool. In fact, you ARE a bigot. A bully and a bigot.

    What’s so hard about either responding civilly or ignoring a post you don’t like?

    #20720
    edust1958
    Participant

    First, my heart goes out to all of those who grieve the loss of life in Orlando.

    I understand the call to increase the checks on those seeking to acquire “military-style” weapons. It makes sense that decreased availability would have an impact on the frequency of horrific events involving the use of theses weapons.

    I also understand those who see any restriction on the “right to bear arms” as the start of a “slippery slope” to restrictions that would eventually effectively eliminate that “right.” I also understand those who enjoy the recreational use of firearms at shooting ranges may want to experience shooting such “military-style” weapons.

    I also understand the desire to “parse” this event to figure out what measure would be the most effective in dealing with future possible attacks will likely lead us down a variety of dead ends. It may be regardless of what we choose to do as a society that we will never be able to predict and prevent future terrible events.

    Determined individuals driven by passionate deeply-held beliefs will accomplish their goals, at least in the short term, regardless of what roadblocks we place in their way. That is the argument that if you restrict the firearms they will find pressure cookers, pipe bombs or some other weapon to inflict mass casualties.

    I suspect that there is an answer and the only way we will find it is if we agree that the solution will not make anybody entirely happy — everyone will have to sacrifice something …gun owners, those who want a welcome mat to refugees…

    I don’t have the answers but I know that there is some series of measures that will improve or lessen the potential of future similar events.

    #20722
    duxrule
    Participant

    Did everyone hear that the shooter bought his guns LEGALLY at a St. Lucie gun store, a store that was owned and operated by a former NYPD-9/11 responder who supposedly hates Muslims?

    “The New York Daily News reported that the store’s owner, Ed Henson, an ex-NYPD officer, had posted on Facebook in December a meme that said, “F— Islam, F— Allah. F— Muhammad. F— the Koran. F— people who support terrorism,” as well as a comment in November calling for Obama to be “handcuffed, removed from Office and charged with Treason and then publicly executed!””
    “How can the American People and military stand by and do nothing while this piece of sh– puts everyone of us in danger,” the post said.
    Henson has spoken to the press in the past in favor of expanded gun rights.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/omar-mateen-st-lucie-county-shooting-center

    Yup, Muslims suck until they’re standing in front of you with a stack of Benjamins.

    #20723
    LurkingGrendel
    Participant

    That’s the whole point of the vitriol. The loon gun owners, (virtually all Republicans), their lobbying agency the NRA (virtually all Republicans), and their bought and paid for and largely gerrymandered constituency in Congress (virtually all Republicans) are 100% unwilling to compromise.

    Any mention of even a limited form gun control and it’s the same lame evasions, hysterical attacks, and grotesque deflections.

    You can never stop a committed individual from carrying out acts of mayhem. What you can do, is make it harder for them to inflict mass casualties. A good start would be completely eliminating semi-automatic, military grade weaponry from civilian hands. It’s a lot harder to murder fifty plus people with a pistol or hunting rifle. Period.

    That’s a position responsible gun owners used to hold. So did the NRA. So did many Republicans once upon a time including former President Reagan. As he said, and I concur, there’s no good reason for anyone to need that kind of hardware. For Christ’s sake, we regulate automobile ownership and operation with greater scrutiny that we do guns.

    Now, that entire political party has driven off a cliff. It’s a fever swamp of hypocrisy, bigotry, ignorance, conspiracy theorizing, and ant intellectualism. True to form, the NRA blamed President Obama for this incident today.

    If you actually, sincerely, think the same kind of thing then FUCK YOU. It’s deeply offensive on many levels.

    If you have nothing to offer in the form of real solutions or real compromises in the aftermath of yet another mass shooting, where the shooter yet again utilized the same kind of weaponry as has been the case over and over again, then do us all a favor and just shut the hell up. You are a part of the problem. You helped enable this kind of tragedy.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 104 total)
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