Tagged: Bernie Bros to blame
December 9, 2016 at 8:25 am #25471
Now, let’s talk about this “Bernie Bro” thing.
You are wrong about that. Flat out. It’s denial, it’s a dodge, and it’s a loser.
When people run for President, they themselves need to understand what that means and they need to be able to do what it takes to close the deal, or don’t fucking run.
Again, Clinton lost for two basic reasons, put in my comment above. The rest is just meta bullshit.
I fully believe, despite the very severe misalignment between her policy, the party performance, etc… that she could have won this, and just didn’t do the work.
300 days with no pressers? Come on.
Also, telling people she needed to win that they were not needed and that moderate fucking Republicans were going to close the deal? LOL! That was a hot load when I heard it, and I heard it TWICE!
A little humility would have carried her over the top, and it was all there for the taking too, and she just didn’t do it. I don’t know why, I don’t care. She just didn’t do the work to close the deal.
And it was possible to do. That’s where the blame is, no where else.
A clear majority of this nation is in pain, not doing well, cannot see a brighter future, and they needed to see that, believe, and vote.
We can’t blame them for not seeing it. It’s not on them. It’s on those who choose to lead to do that, and Clinton flat out chose to lead, but didn’t do the work.
I know that’s not popular, and I could give two shits. It’s real, and over the next couple of years you all will see it play out too. I’m not wrong on this.
So, hit me. I’m game. Tell me to fuck off, do all that shit.
I’ll talk you through it one step at a time, because we need all we can get.
Snow day for me. Shop closed, so I’m gonna enjoy my morning, coffee and look forward to a fun weekend playing with my granddaughter pooky.
All while contemplating “Result Oriented Democracy” and you should too.
One more thing, Bacon is still wrong as fuck, and that we see some small resonance here, does not indicate anything else. Just saying.
One more additional thing: I’m not here much because I’m working on building that army, just like a ton of us are. We’ve got no time for the blame and shame game.
I submit you don’t either. Which is it? Wallow in this shit, or step up and get after it? I’m getting after it, peeps going to DC next week. Good plans, new politics, deals getting closed.December 9, 2016 at 12:18 pm #25477
And building it now?
One singular reason: Mid Term apathy is something we absolutely cannot afford.
Trump is gonna beat us up, and appears perfectly willing to do it in his spare time, handing the works off to Pence and friends.
We either step up, right now, shake this shit off and present people with fact based, data driven positive, vote FOR type politics, or the resulting marginalization will endure for a generation.
There is literally no time. A lot needs to happen, and happen right now.
Electoral politics matter despite the clear tendency to check out on them for a while.December 9, 2016 at 12:57 pm #25478VitalogyParticipant
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
Hillary lost for one reason and one reason only. Democrats stayed home and Republicans didn’t. Some Democrats (Bernie Bros, 3rd party idiots, and those entitled and idealistic millennials) decided that because Hillary didn’t check off 100 boxes of 100 boxes on being the ideal candidate, they couldn’t be bothered.
Republicans on the other hand had a candidate so much more flawed within their own party, but guess what? They came home and voted for their candidate.
Choosing a president is not rocket science. It’s choice A or choice B. And the choices couldn’t have been more stark. I warned many times that Bernie’s campaign was damaging the Democrats chance to win and could deliver us a Trump White House. While there were several factors involved, the Bernie/3rd party voters are squarely to blame for lack of turnout and/or enthusiasm and in a few states flat out handed the EV’s to Trump.
I’ll give the GOP some credit. They show up to vote. Even when their candidate stinks. Democrats on the other hand came into the general election with sand in their pussies.
And if you thought the Bush years sucked, just wait. The damage we as a nation will endure will be massive. Just look at the Cabinet nominations. The Supreme Court is a goner for decades. Climate change? A hoax says the new EPA guy. An AG who is a straight up southern racist. A bunch of billionaire right wingers serving a billionaire president. Sounds like a worst case scenario for you Bernie Bros, but like I said, enjoy it, and try to stay dry while you protest.
Maybe you Bernie Bros should have thought about that a little bit more before having a hissy fit because your guru didn’t win the nomination.December 9, 2016 at 1:02 pm #25479
I’m happy Trump chose so many millionaires and billionaires. I prefer that to someone who comes in “stone broke” and then ends up filthy rich because of influence peddling and speaking fees. These guys don’t need the money and they can concentrate on public service.December 9, 2016 at 1:25 pm #25480LangstonParticipant
No matter how much money one has, you still need to be qualified for the job. Many of these appointees just don’t cut it no matter how hard they may concentrate. Heck of a job Brownie.December 9, 2016 at 1:38 pm #25481Andy BrownParticipant
Very idealistic and downright naive, Vern. Either that or you are bat shit stupid. What is happening in this case is called:
the appointment of friends and associates to positions of authority, without proper regard to their qualifications.
Billionaires didn’t get rich being nice guys and serving anyone but themselves.
You make claims frequently but don’t provide substantive proof or examples.December 9, 2016 at 1:53 pm #25482
Blame the voters won’t get you anywhere good Vitalogy, but it will be gratifying.
If people don’t have reason to show up, they don’t. Simple as that.
And you need to know something, this is real:
About 25 percent of us are comfortable. The rest vary, and below the 60 percentile, it’s not good. People are pissed off, and they see people running on good ideas, and they aren’t seeing the fight to get them.
That’s a problem. The GOP fights. Bloody fights, but they do it. People want that from Democrats, who haven’t traditionally done it.
So, here is what that means. A very large number of the stay home and Trump voters happened because maybe if more of us are fucked, things will change. I didn’t do that, don’t condone that, but I know it happened, and it happened a lot more than anyone will admit.
Secondly, many of these people don’t have all that much to lose. For them, it’s bleak and they do not see a brighter future with the Dem offering this year. They also know a much smaller fraction of us have a lot more to lose and maybe losing it will force a different set of priorities.
That’s fact man. And you can put blame on them, if you want. Many are going to. I’m going to continue to put it on Clinton, who very easily could have wrapped the momentum up, taken good advantage of it and the majority vote would have carried her in a few important places to a win.
She didn’t do that, and she should have. When half the party goes off like we saw them do, just telling them to shut up, they aren’t needed, are wrong, etc… doesn’t cut it.
Like it, don’t like it, those are facts.
In any case, this will be remedied. And as quickly as possible.
I get it. Mad about Trump. So am I, and it’s time for the KSKD family to take some measures. I expect very hard times. Not what I wanted to see at all.
But, I’m also putting my time into an effort that stands a chance at making a difference sooner rather than later too.
No time for blame and shame. Won’t do any good, there is no positive end game on it, and frankly, takes a lot of time and energy we could be using to deal with this shit, which is again, precisely what is needed right now.
Too many of us are not prospering, and while that’s not enough to tip things over, the fact that those people are being told it’s fine, shut up, your time is coming, while others do?
Yeah, fucked us. Not good. Big lessons to be learned there.
I heard them loud and clear.
You guys know what I think of “those other people” arguments. Still applies.
And remember, it’s global. Not just US. You all did watch the video I linked right? Hope so. You all did watch the corruption one too, right? Hope so.December 9, 2016 at 2:01 pm #25483
“Very idealistic and downright naive, Vern. Either that or you are bat shit stupid. What is happening in this case is called:”
Of course they still have to be men and women of good character. I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt and trust that will be the case until proven otherwise.
But too many politicians of modest means enter government service and then leave their offices as multi-millionaires. (Republicans and Democrats alike). There’s something wrong with that picture.December 9, 2016 at 2:05 pm #25484
Of course they still have to be men and women of good character.
And nobody in Trumps cabinet meets that description.December 9, 2016 at 3:24 pm #25485Andy BrownParticipant
“There’s something wrong with that picture.”
Yes, that is true and we all share a concern over that but there is a modicum of cronyism, both severe and borderline, in every administration.
Since the Dems removed the ability to filibuster Presidential appointments to the Cabinet and other positions have never been challengeable, the next administration will have little problem getting installed. The confirmation hearing, though, can still be a rough ride for someone like Sessions who made a lot of enemies many in his own party. There may not be a filibuster but a nominee can still be voted down. I doubt that will happen unless the hearings themselves reveal something heretofore unknown to anyone.
Sessions has repeatedly worked to block NSA privacy reforms, sided with the FBI in its standoff with Apple over the iPhone’s encryption, and pushed legislation that would force technology companies to turn over private information to law enforcement. Sessions is a dangerous choice for the role of enforcing legal limits on intelligence agencies like the NSA.
In his nearly two decades as a senator, Sessions has pushed for spying powers beyond even those supported by his Republican congressional colleagues and intelligence agents. He fought reform of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act in 2012 and against the USA Freedom Act that in 2015 placed new limits the NSA’s spying powers after the revelations of Edward Snowden—a law that passed a Republican House and Senate and was even endorsed by NSA director Michael Rogers.
But Sessions’ most privacy-invasive move as senator may have been his attempt to add an amendment to the Email Privacy Act, a bill passed in the Republican-controlled House of Representatives in May designed to require a warrant for law enforcement to compel tech firms like Google and Microsoft to hand over Americans’ stored communications. Sessions’ amendment would create a loophole that would allow law enforcement to demand data without a warrant in ill-defined “emergency” cases—never mind that companies already routinely hand over user data without being compelled in legitimate emergencies.
Sessions has been an outspoken opponent of bipartisan efforts to shrink the country’s massive prison and jail system. He was one of only a handful of senators standing in the way of the Sentencing Reform and Corrections Act, which would, among other things reduce mandatory minimum sentences—a measure that enjoyed support from Republican leaders like House Speaker Paul Ryan.December 9, 2016 at 5:38 pm #25487AndrewParticipant
I initially thought that turnout was the reason Clinton lost the election, too, until I noticed the vote totals going up as votes continued to be counted after the election. It looks like total turnout will be a little higher than in 2012 (but lower than 2008).
Clinton lost the electoral college because she lost Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. If you want to look at why she lost, look at each state.
Wisconsin and Michigan turnout WAS down from 2012, and it was very close. You can probably blame Wisconsin on Scott Walker and Wisconsin Republicans reducing it with new laws restricting voting, perhaps.
But turnout was UP in Pennsylvania from 2012, by about 400,000 votes (out of a bit more than 6 million votes cast). Clinton would still have lost if she had won MI and WI.
Clinton got about the same number of votes in PA that Obama got in 2012. But Trump beat Romney’s vote total by about 300,000 or so. Also, both Jill Stein and especially Gary Johnson – both also on the ballot in 2012 – increased their vote totals by about 130,000 combined in 2016. And a conservative party candidate in 2016 polled about 22,000 votes – not on the ballot in 2012.
You can figure about 30K of the 50K Jill Stein voters in 2016 might have voted for Obama in 2012 (or not voted) as about 20K voted for her also in 2012. 30K wouldn’t quite hat put Clinton over the top. But Gary Johnson got almost 100K more votes in 2016 than in 2012. How would they have split had they had to choose Trump or Clinton? Even if 50-50, Trump would still have won. Maybe if they had split 60-40 for Clinton she could have pulled it out, something like that. We can assume these “additional 3rd party voters” in 2016 were people who cared about voting (vs. staying home) but couldn’t stomach Clinton or Trump.
The real reason Clinton lost PA though is the surge in rural voters – about 300K – who came out for Trump. Her vote totals increased in a couple of the big blue counties in SE PA from 2012, but the surge in rural voters in the other counties really did her in.
Still, in an election so painfully close, you can always choose a dozen different reasons for the loss: the James Comey endorsement, the Putin endorsement, some mistakes by the Clinton campaign, the misdirected media, 3rd party voters, fake news, nasty primary fight between Bernie and Hillary…pick your reason.December 9, 2016 at 5:48 pm #25491
“pick your reason”
It was meant to be.
It was quite a thrill to see my home state of Pennsylvania go red. Bucks County very narrowly went to Clinton, however. I thought they were more conservative than that. But my most recent PA county, Perry, went overwhelmingly for Trump.December 9, 2016 at 6:30 pm #25496LangstonParticipant
Never know what to expect from PA. After all they elected Santorum.December 9, 2016 at 6:42 pm #25499
But it’s been 24 years since they voted Republican for president.
The last time I voted there was in 1988 for Bush I.December 10, 2016 at 12:45 am #25501
Yeah, don’t get too excited.
First, electing a carnival barker who appears to be installing the worst of the worst for a cabinet isn’t exactly a point of pride.
You may think so, but of course, you are a total dumb ass too. The majority of the nation knows it. Or would, if they knew you.
Trump does not have any kind of a mandate at all, and like Bush, will claim one, but it’s not true.
People are going to be very seriously harmed. It’s not gonna be pretty. The idealized vision of the world you cling to isn’t functional in any sense and will crash very, very badly.
Best case now is we blunt the worst of it, and then get somewhere quickly in Congress.
Trump is in because Democrats really botched it this year. How badly this goes and on what fronts depends on the party fight going on right now. That could resolve nicely, and it’s game on. Or, it may take a while. Ugly times.
It’s important to have an effective opposition party. We may get that, we may not. I hope we do.
And he’s in due to a global trend away from Neo-economics, both conservative and liberal versions. The EU is shredding up right now, rejecting in the same way we are. Italy, France, Greece, UK, others. One look at Brussels tells the tale there.
Austerity is a grand failure. Pissed way too many off.
Iceland actually navigated this very nicely. They acted in the interests of the people who elected them, jailed reckless bankers, stabilized their population and economy and are moving forward from a reasonable position.
Nobody wants an oligarchy or plutocracy. And history has lots to tell us about why those are bad too.
We may get an ugly war out of this as well. Given the rabid behavior I’m seeing in Trump, as well as his near complete disregard for the basic protocols and expectations inherent in the office he was just elected to, I also expect considerable and sustained public unrest.
Again, people are gonna get harmed.
If you continue to be dumb enough to see this as validation of all the shit you say, well? Can’t help with that. We all know why too.
As the worse problems pile up, bumper sticker politics just won’t have answers. And a whole lot of the world is gonna find this all out the hard way too.
People will be harmed, and a lot of them are going to die, who didn’t need either. And it’s all on the GOP, Trump and apparently we humans are going to need a very direct, up front and personal object lesson on all this again.
The swing back will be on par with FDR. Will have to be.
Nobody knows the timeline on that at present. Could be a decade, could be just a few years. Could be a generation too, though I do not expect that one given the age out rates and what young people aging in are like.
Would much rather have this fight from a better position. And make no mistake, many here will not agree, but it’s a fight with Clinton or Trump.
Establishment Referendum Election
And the root cause of that is lack of meaningful economic progress and or performance for a growing majority of ordinary people.
That is what got us here. Trump is no answer.
If we all make it through this, you will get your face rubbed in all of this big.
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