GHW Bush accused of groping 2 women

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  • #32614
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Bush apologized through a spokesman in a statement earlier Wednesday. The statement said that “on occasion, he has patted women’s rears in what he intended to be a good-natured manner” and routinely tells a joke.

    Deadspin reported that a source said the “joke” the statement refers to was Bush saying that his favorite magician was “David-Cop-A-Feel.”

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/second-woman-accuses-george-hw-bush-of-groping/ar-AAu3OW0?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

    #32618
    paulwalker
    Participant

    I certainly don’t condone Bush’s behavior if the allegations are true. I would tend to believe his spokesman at this point. It is unfortunate that when someone makes an accusation then others pile on. And I do tend to believe that he may not be in his right mind at this point due to failing health. That being said, there still is no excuse for this kind of behavior, (if true).

    #32620
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    The allegations are true based on video and his apology.

    The sad thing is, this is typical behavior of a male of his generation. I’m sure he meant no harm and there were no sexual issues involved, but still.

    #32626
    Andy Brown
    Participant

    Unfortunately, the knee jerk media seems obsessed with the bawdy nature of life in America which is hardly new.

    There is a fine line between sexual harassment in the work place and public social behavior that is at times risqué, especially in bars and taverns. Women have always been able to say no or push someone away. Before the litigation bandwagon had so much momentum, most of the now published events were not really newsworthy. Also, it is a two way street. Tell me you’ve never had a well endowed woman bump her chest into you to get you to pay attention to her business requests in the workplace, whether it be to move her stuff up in your queue or support her committee or come to an optional meeting.

    #32628
    paulwalker
    Participant

    My father was born in 1919. (Yes, he was old when I was born). He always presented himself very politely with women, but I definitely remember his golfing friends, and even his two older brothers were very crude. Nobody seemed to care, they just laughed it off.

    Obviously there are different levels of this type of behavior, and mores do change with time.

    #32630
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    Women have faced harassment for centuries. This behavior can’t be condoned in anyway, and especially by a former president. Once again, we are seeing white privilege offering up excuses for bad behavior…”his generation” “he’s in a wheel chair” “it was a joke.”

    If what some of you are inferring is that sexual harassment has degrees, it makes no difference, its still not acceptable….EVER!!

    #32631
    paulwalker
    Participant

    Chris, with all due respect, I don’t think anyone is condoning this behavior as much as offering an idea of where we have been in the past.

    In my case, I just reported that my Dad didn’t play in this arena, but his friends and brothers did. Please explain where I condoned this behavior.

    And yes there are different levels of sexual harassment. This isn’t the same as saying some of it is OK.

    #32632
    Andrew
    Participant

    I certainly don’t condone Bush’s behavior – does anyone?

    Yet it’s still hard for me to get upset over it the way I do about a Harvey Weinstein or a Bill Cosby (especially Cosby, because I used to be such a huge fan before I knew he was a creep). Bush seems to have groped these women in public settings, so it’s not like he was trying to pressure them into sex. And as Paul alluded to above, it doesn’t seem hard to imagine that by age 90 (when at least one of these incidents occurred) Bush might not be completely “with it” anymore.

    The problem is that it’s easy to equate behavior by Bush with behavior by Weinstein or Cosby when you skim the headlines and don’t dive deeper into the stories. I think the media does that in an unintentional way when they sensationalize both types of stories. Bush’s behavior clearly was inappropriate, but it doesn’t seem like a hanging offense, especially if he’s not playing with a full deck anymore.

    #32633
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    I think GW Bush is still dealing with a full deck even though his body is failing. I accept what he said as the truth. He thought it was a good natured gesture but the women didn’t see it that way. I call it a generational gap in accepted behavior.

    The other issue I have is that we seem to be categorizing offenses that are not equal. Get your butt grabbed in a photo shoot? Not okay. Given a requirement for sexual favors to land said job. Not even in the same ballpark.

    Let’s not lump in sexual harassment as being in the same category as sexual ASSAULT.

    #32637
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    You all reacted like typical white, privilege men, sorry to say. I just shared this story with my wife and she said, “these men are trying to tell the women what to feel.”

    If you read in the article Vit posted, the woman who was groped by Bush called it sexual assault, because that is what she felt it was. How can you or I call it anything different just because it didn’t lead to her being pinned down against her will and raped or otherwise. She was groped against her will. That is against the law.

    I have great respect for all of you, but in this case, the women are right. It was assault —- and that’s no joke.

    #32641
    paulwalker
    Participant

    I don’t completely disagree with you, Chris. But to label many on here as “white, privileged men” is simplifying the issue.

    I also have great respect for you, but I also think you are not understanding some realities here. I mentioned my father was born in 1919 and lived in a much different society, certainly a society that was much different than what exists today. By acceopting this was a different world doesn’t make me “accepting” of that kind of behavior today. But it does merit an understanding of what occurred back then. Never said it was right.

    To throw a blanket statement to all who have responded here is somewhat unfair, as I truly believe most here are understanding of your point. Of course, any harassment of females is wrong. Blanket statements are also wrong.

    #32646
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    We all agree that what Bush did was wrong and he needs to be held accountable.

    Now, I may be preaching to the choir, but I have a chance to explain what I mean by male privilege.

    I have the privilege, as a man, whether in sports, a bar, business environment, or in general life, that I will be believed, given benefit of the doubt, and have my (bad) behavior defended and marginalized in ways such as “he didn’t mean it, he was only joking, it’s just the culture, he was too old/young, he had too much to drink, boys will be boys, it wasn’t as bad as what (other man) did, don’t hurt his reputation as a community leader, it’s locker room talk, he can do what he wants because he’s rich/famous/attractive/powerful, he’s a father/teacher/coach/clergy” etc. Men have legal rights over their own body and their own space and don’t think twice about that.

    Women are rarely believed the first time, and instead grilled “are you SURE? Could you have done something differently (walked a different route, wore different clothes, not get a job there, not looked him in the eye, not participated in the discussion, not smiled, smiled too much, talked, not talked, etc.) to avoid being groped/raped/demeaned/paid less?” Even when there is video evidence. Even when there are witnesses. Even when the perpetrator has a history of doing the same thing over, and over, and over again and other women have talked/have video/have witnesses….and other men know the man’s character. Women do not have the same privilege. Men try to legally have rights over women’s bodies, and what privilege/opportunities women have over their own body space.

    I have the privilege of being able to approach an older respected male mentor figure and be treated civilly, not be demeaned, marginalized, groped, assaulted… whereas women don’t have the consistent evidence of that experience.

    I’m not saying I’m better off ALL the time than women, but there are a lot of things I don’t have to worry about/think about/dance around that women have to dance around every day. And it’s us privileged men who have created this culture, so we need to change it. The world will be a better place when all people can sit at the table and be treated with respect, where privileged men keep their hands, bullying behavior, and their unwanted comments to themselves. When women won’t have to worry about a man touching them, demeaning them, or even raping or murdering them. We privileged men don’t worry about those things…it’s only fair we give the same respect and safety to women. It takes NOTHING from us to be better people, in fact, it adds to us. We need to hold ourselves accountable, and then hold our brother accountable – no more excuses.

    #32647
    Alfredo_T
    Participant

    In the last 15-20 years, I have observed changes in corporate attitudes toward harassment (sexual and otherwise), although they have been very gradual. One significant step–though it may seem small at first glance–was that the company for which I work instituted a policy that stated that harassment happens if the person on the receiving end perceives it as such. The stated intent of the deeds or words do not matter. Another change that I have been observing is that as the building is being remodeled, office doors are being replaced with ones that have windows.

    I believe that these changes needed to happen. An “old boys’ club” or an office that feels like a fraternity is ultimately not a place where everyone’s talents are most effectively used, nor is it the most ethical work environment. It is a shame that it took lawsuits to bring this matter up front and center so that corporate America started doing something about it.

    #32650
    cbaravelli
    Spectator

    I thought this best describes the situation:
    https://pagesix.com/2017/10/26/ellen-gets-slammed-on-twitter-over-sexist-tweet-to-katy-perry/
    I don’t care.

    #32656
    Alfredo_T
    Participant

    But, what does Katy Perry think?

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