Former KKEY tower site to be dismantled by the end of April

feedback.pdxradio.com forums feedback.pdxradio.com forums Portland Radio Former KKEY tower site to be dismantled by the end of April

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This topic contains 93 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  Steve Naganuma 3 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 76 through 90 (of 94 total)
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  • #40923

    Zander
    Participant

    Bustos applied today to diplex 1150 on the KBPS tower with 250 watts day and 12 watts night…and to extend their 10watt STA AGAIN. Current STA set to expire 2/17.

    #40927

    Andy Brown
    Participant

    My guess is that this is going to create a station with terrible coverage. At less then a quarter wave (84.1º) coming off of the antenna, and except for the first few miles around the site, this signal may get buried in the noise. With co-channels KKNW to the north and KAGO to the south, 250 watts daytime and 12 watts at night just isn’t going to cut it. KBPS has 1 kW and we already know how that barely covers the city, and it has 106º coming off of the antenna.

    http://bit.ly/2EaU6rh

    #40932

    Scott Young
    Participant

    Wouldn’t this merely be their ticket to play the AM revitalization translator game?

    #40934

    Alfredo_T
    Participant

    That is precisely the reason that they have to keep 1150 on the air.

    #40937

    nosignalallnoise
    Participant

    First time I drove through that part of town post-demolition (early last year) was really weird. I actually missed my turn-off at 4th Plain and Stapleton because I was so used to seeing the tower the next block over!

    I’m surprised the station building was so solid. Did they build it that way to withstand a nuclear blast or something?

    #40938

    Andy Brown
    Participant

    It’s too late to file for an AM Revitalization translator. The final window for that was a year ago. Besides, any new or purchased translator’s 60 dBu rebroadcasting an AM station has to be contained within the greater of its 2 mV contour or 25 miles, in which case there are precious few frequencies that would work (and cover anybody). Bustos already has seen how difficult that is.

    #40947

    semoochie
    Participant

    How the “Mighty 1150” has fallen! 🙁 I would think that 1150 could get 5KW from that site, as long as the tower can handle it but AM reception probably isn’t their concern. Don’t they still have a translator on 93.5?

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  semoochie.
    #40950

    Zander
    Participant

    Yep, 1150 is still on the 93.5 translator. Really the only reason to keep 1150 on the air at all. I suspect that Bustos will try and extend the STA as long as possible before actually turning on the 250 watt operation. As of last week the ten watts off of their building wasn’t on the air…it’s all about the translator.

    #40951

    Andy Brown
    Participant

    “I would think that 1150 could get 5KW from that site”

    Uh, no. Not without a DA and that won’t ever happen at that site. At .250 kW they’re already bumping up against second adjacent KXET. It’s all right there in the report I linked to in my previous post. Even with a DA, they probably couldn’t make 5 kW, probably more like 2.5 – 3.5 kW. Remember, they are ~15 miles further south then the old KKEY and that much closer to that station they must protect.

    #40953

    semoochie
    Participant

    The understanding we always had was that they were too close to KAYO(or whatever it’s called now)to run nondirectionally at 5KW. Apparently, that’s no longer true. Since this is even farther from Seattle, it shouldn’t be an issue. Klamath Falls is even farther away. Is Mount Angel the problem?

    #40954

    Andy Brown
    Participant

    Is Mount Angel the problem?

    That’s what I said. KXET is the 2nd adjacent to the south that sets the 250 watt ND daytime limit.

    Not to sound repetitive, but look at the study which I linked to previously. It’s all right there. Also, they are still short spaced to KKNW Seattle (daytime overlap is reduced but still there, nighttime overlap is reduced but still there), so your conclusion is not valid. In addition, remember that this is a comparison to the last licensed site (the classic site) not the STA site.

    “Daytime

    The proposed 250 Watt non-directional operation of KGDD will not result in prohibited contour overlap with any licensed or proposed facility, with the exception of KKNW, Seattle and KXET, Mount Angel, OR. As demonstrated by the daytime allocation study map exhibits included in this application, existing overlap with KKNW is reduced by this proposal, while existing overlap with KXET is maintained at 0.1 km2. All allocation studies are based on data from the February 8, 2019 edition of the CDBS. M3 ground conductivity was used in all cases.

    Nighttime

    The proposed nighttime operation of KGDD will not enter the 25% RSS of any facility, with the exception of KKNW. As demonstrated by the Site to Site RSS calculations included in this report, the RSS contribution from KGDD to KKNW is reduced by this proposal. This exhibit considers all facilities listed in the CDBS for which KGDD will exceed the 10% RSS threshold.”

    http://bit.ly/2EaU6rh

    There’s just no way they could ever go 5 kW from the KBPS site. From a three tower directional array at that location (which would never happen) it would probably still be impossible to make a full 5 kW because of KXET but even if the a null could be created deep enough to do it, it would eliminate coverage south of the site just like the issues the old 4 tower 1480 site in Orchards had and/or 910 has always had. West coast DA’s near the coast generally need to be east of the community to be served so that the nulls to protect stations to the north and south don’t cut across the area to be served.

    #40955

    semoochie
    Participant

    OK, I understand about Mount Angel. Why was 5KW ND authorized from the licensed site if it was short spaced to Seattle?

    #40956

    Andy Brown
    Participant

    We’d have to have access to the old paperwork to answer that. I tried bringing up DKKEY but nothing comes up. Probably either a “showing” of some sort that led to a grant or grant with a waiver.

    #40957

    semoochie
    Participant

    Oh no, this would just be when the first two towers came down, about two years. It should be under the current calls. I’ll check. Thanks Andy! (Edit) I can’t believe it; It’s been ten years since they filed the 302! It looks to me like 1130 was creating more interference to the three towers on 1150 than 1150 would cause 1130 from the KBPS site at 5KW. Any thoughts?

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by  semoochie.
    #40959

    Andy Brown
    Participant

    “Why was 5KW ND authorized from the licensed site if it was short spaced to Seattle?”

    It appeared although short spaced, the interference as demonstrated through J. Boyd’s field measurements, was within allowed parameters. That’s my guess. The maps indicate that by removing the directionality and going to 5 kW reduced the distance to critical contours sufficiently to provide field strengths that supported the grant. Note how even in so called non directional mode, the pattern northward runs right into the mountains which limits its propagation, creating a Bart Simpson haircut to the top of what one might expect to be a near circular pattern. So in essence, it’s just like 73.215 for FM (short spaced but not interfering). I’m not super familiar with the rules for AM short spacing and RSS numbers or I’d quote them, but that’s the feel I get from it.

    I hope PPS charged Bustos major dollars to get on their antenna.

    I continue to think the propagation on this will suck pretty bad since the antenna is short, but hey, the big money players have already down graded just about every other AM in town, there is no reason to think any one channel would be immune from their greed and malfeasance. When the business model for radio changed after ’96, many said (not me) it was going to save the broadcast industry but in reality it accelerated its downward spiral. AM is dead. FM and TV are on life support. The money keeps circulating between the biggest money players in advertising and group ownership, but the reality is failure. Thousands of jobs don’t exist anymore, the last two generations don’t listen to the radio and the quality and diversity of programming is untenable.

    https://www.stevenbartlett.com/blog-1/2018/2/10/print-is-dead-radio-is-dying-tv-is-very-very-sick

    https://www.televisory.com/blogs/-/blogs/is-radio-broadcasting-industry-in-the-u-s-dying-an-analysis

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/13/business/media/television-advertising.html

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