June 2, 2018 at 7:55 pm #37240
“Straight up mania.”
Weak sauce. You can do so much better. 😀
Won’t work you know. Ever. But by all means, feel free to continue. It’s good entertainment.
You know how this goes. Years spanking that shit aside. Up your game.June 2, 2018 at 8:09 pm #37241
“…the Democratic Party has to become a progressive party. If it does not…there will be a continued loss of faith in the electoral process and there will be a third party.” – .@janeosanders at Left Forum lays down the truth! 🔥👏 pic.twitter.com/W9DwaeQwfU
— HootHootBerns🌹🦺 (@HootHootBerns) June 2, 2018
I’m not joking about anything I’ve put here. That concerns me.
And here is the trouble:
Say I stand for the party as it is operating right now. That’s not the GOP, but it’s also not meaningful progress for the majority of Americans, who really need that to happen.
I’m not entirely sure that’s even going to work. Way too many people are pissed off. Could be enough to be a real, enduring problem and the end game on all that is a long term, GOP type government.
If I stand with the people looking for real economic change, we may still end up with a longer term GOP type government. But, economic change could happen too.
So, it’s a freebie.
I’ll stand with the people for change. What we are and have been doing as a party, economically, isn’t good enough. For many, it’s not even good, just less worse than the GOP manages.June 3, 2018 at 2:02 am #37244semoochieParticipant
The last time the people got behind a nazi candidate, it nearly destroyed the world! That reminds me: Donald Trump IS Adolf Hitler just waiting for an opening! Let’s not give it to him.June 3, 2018 at 7:56 pm #37250
Straight up mania dude. I’ve been on this site since 2003 and have read a lot of your writings over the years and felt a lot of agreement with your points even though some of them were out there, as in wishful thinking.
No longer. You sound like your parents sent you to God camp and you came back fully invested in the BS you’ve been fed and keep repeating. And with a bullhorn in a small room to boot.
Not one person here appears to be buying it.
Anybody who aided and abetted in helping Trump get elected has zero say in how we move forward. That means you, “take it to the convention no matter the cost KSKD”.
The Bernie candidate in CA won’t make it to top 2 status. the reason for this is that she doesn’t represent the majority of the people casting votes.June 3, 2018 at 8:45 pm #37252
The people here are:
A. Small sample
B. Older Demographic
C. Reasonably secure (some may not be)
D. Economically center right to a very tepid center left
E. Not in touch.
And I put a lot in. Party, activism, etc..
Watched my kids grow up, and their experiences are very telling.
The guard is going to change. Party registration is low. When we started this chat so many years ago, that was not true. It is today. High 20’s. Indies are near half!
Times are changing.
The things I am about are being opposed by my party in the grip of big money. Often vigorously, unnecessarily. That’s just not OK. Not something I really believe in. For a time, the idea of incremental change worked to remedy that, but the outcomes are incremental and change, but not progress!
Just not inclined to take that kind of shit.
Of all the things, seeing the degree of corruption is ugly. Yes, the GOP is worse, but our house is dirty, and ignoring it could make sense, but only when real progress is on the table.
We just aren’t seeing that.
And we are a much smaller club now too.
And isn’t this about the people? Clearly it is socially. Nothing has changed there.
Well, it needs to be about them economically too, or this is not going to work.
What is the problem? Let us go put it to these fuckers and get some real economic progress!
Whole lot of NO WE CAN’T put there, too much for my blood.
Obama asked, “Why didn’t you vote?”
He was not wrong to ask. Apparently, the answer isn’t all that easy to deal with, is it?
If we want the votes, the big wins, to deliver one to Trump and the GOP right in the sack, it’s all about making damn sure people know there is a fight FOR something worth doing.
Just beating Trump isn’t good enough. How do we think that clown got there?
And there you have the disconnect in a nutshell.
I’m just not doing that again. Not if I do not have to, and I don’t! Neither do you.
People are on the move. There is a lot of momentum backing really great ideas. The people aging in rapidly now want it, and they want it bad.
Truth is, we are all about to see some 9f the beat politics of our lives.
If you want to camp out, bent over all the controversy, I can’t stop you. Wish you wouldn’t though. It’s gonna be a lot of fun.
The brutal truth is:
Shut this movement down, and we either get more of the same that he stated it again, and we do run the very real risk of Trump a second time, and maybe even Trump 2.0 after that.
That’s because way too many people aren’t good with the status quo outcome. For them, the ship sailed and failed. Bill Clinton type Dem politics, “third way”, “new Democrat” works for Wall Street, but does not work for Main Street.
On the other hand, fuel it, shoot the moon, and we could get real progress. Might not. Bad things could happen. Or more of the same could happen too.
I’m with them. Go for it. Long over due, and now is the perfect time. Trump really sucks. People will want better and will want it bad.
Worst case, I cast sick less votes like I always would. Meh. Best case, I’m casting votes for great ideas long over due.
Simple as all that man.
Got better? Sell me. Door is wide open, and you know that.
You also know I’ve never, ever pulled a punch either. I am very deeply concerned about the social gains being wasted, regressed, all because some how it 8t just too much of a bother to YES WE CAN.
Finally, and I can’t make this point strong enough:
Progressives are gonna do it anyway. Not a damn thing you or I can do about it.
And they aren’t wrong! So fuck it, I am game. Not doing that actually makes the risks worse, in my view.
Mania my ass. You can do much better. Really wish you would.June 3, 2018 at 8:59 pm #37253
These things have bothered me since the Tea Party rise, frankly.
I wondered, just how come we keep losing our asses. Hard.
I wondered what that might mean for social progress too, and it can mean a lot. Already showing.
This isn’t a found god kind of thing. Not at all. What I learned is I am not alone in any of that. I learned way too damn many people are not getting what they need out of the party vision, and that’s why we are losing our asses.
This idea of moving right, saddling up to the GOP, running Republican lite candidates, all is bullshit. None of those things gets at the growing economic trouble out there, so why fucking bother?
And I really don’t like to be lied to. That shit happened in 2015/2016.
Democrats need to be Democrats, not some Republican lite, socially friendly war mongers.
And I’m entirely done with all the excuses. It’s “those other people”, it’s “the russians”, it’s those people who are too selfish, who want to see a fucking doctor, or want to afford to live somewhere in return for working a 40+, even if they can find that.
I think it’s the money. And I think there is no way in hell the money will fund the kind of economic change we need. Why would they?
Fuck, I wouldn’t!
So there will be a fight no matter what man. That’s a done deal, and it’s here now, and it’s all gonna go down good or bad.
I’m going with the good guys, unabashedly.
Heh, even the bigots need good health care. And nobody goes bankrupt in Russia when they get sick either.
Like I said, mania my ass. Show me better, and it’s a discussion, otherwise, it’s laughable. And I’m laughing.June 3, 2018 at 9:08 pm #37254
Yes, take it to the convention no matter what.
Open democracy man. People get to do that, and that is exactly what happens when the people get told they have to just take shit so a loud minority can live well too.
Bet your ass.
I’m not to blame for this. It’s not the russians. It’s not anything but raw, unbridled greed.
And I sure as fuck am not gonna be the guy trying to convince others doing the same shit that got us here again is the best we can do either.
Go ahead, get mad at me. I could give two shits.
And I think you are scared shitless too. Worried about Trump, worried about bad times and the whole thing.
Don’t blame you one bit.
So am I.
So do something about it. I am. Lots of people are, more every day too.
Talking down to everyone, as if they owe you something is nothing but fresh bullshit and it smells.
If you think you are somehow in the right expecting a majority to take it hard so your scenario is secure, safe, lower risk, think again. You are in the minority now, by a very clear and shrinking margin.
That is what has changed over the years. Wasn’t always true, but it is now.
Like I said, show me better. That move to the convention was awesome! Got the platform improved, energized near half the delegates to continue a movement that is well aligned with the needs out there right now too.
Bad ass good politics! Things one can be FOR.
You might want to rethink doing that man. Point of pride. You undermine any ground you may have when you do that. Completely ineffective.
What’s next. Gonna call daddy Dan and have me voted off the island?
Maybe so, but as long as I’m here, no way. You are gonna face it, up front, personal.June 3, 2018 at 9:14 pm #37255
Oh, and this!
Anybody who aided and abetted in helping Trump get elected has zero say in how we move forward.
Try again. It’s an open democracy. You can say that, and you can even believe it, and maybe even feel better about it all.
Doesn’t mean jack shit, and I know that. Go tell that to the chumps.
And there is is, right there. At least you are honest. Love that about you.
Well, I am too.
The cold hard fact is people always have a say. They get one whether they vote, don’t vote, protest vote, whatever.
By design, how the founders intended.
You think you’ve got some entitlement or other, and the idea of all that being questioned just chaps your ass.
Why not just come out and say it?
Clinton did. At least she was honest too. Pelosi says it too.
Basically, “it’s our show, deal or fuck off.”
Well, way too many people are saying, “OK, fuck off then, feeling is mutual” and here we are with Trump.
That’s a Democrat, BTW. Tons of progressives running. Some of them are gonna win.
Wanna play that again? I don’t.
To what end? And that’s the point exactly.
I’ll leave you to your thoughts.June 4, 2018 at 12:00 pm #37263
“Well, way too many people are saying, “OK, fuck off then, feeling is mutual” and here we are with Trump.”
And how’s that working out for ya?June 4, 2018 at 12:47 pm #37265
Well, there is me, and there are other people.
For me, I am energized to see the hard work started and success beginning to be seen.
We don’t control other people. If they aren’t well served by the party, they have few options, none of them pretty.
Some of those progressives are gonna win. When they do, they will be able to make news, influence the party, represent ordinary people better, and those are all very good things.
All of them do two things when they run:
One is to get people involved, politically active, familiar with how things work and why. This is movement building, greater class awareness, understanding, all that good civics stuff.
The other is they may win, and if so great. If not, the impact is still meaningful. It becomes less worth it to continue with what progressives see as failed, ineffective economic politics.
Nobody has to take the party deal Vitalogy. That is precisely the point I’ve been making. The fight is on, and people mean it.
And when they are sufficiently motivated, they act on all that too.
Worse, the vast majority of them have cause and standing to do what they are doing. So, it’s not like it’s all gonna go away, unless the root causes of it all are improved.
So let’s do that.June 4, 2018 at 2:07 pm #37267
Maybe this helps:
Had Clinton won, these labor movement efforts would still be going on. I’m not sure people understand that.
Most of the planning I got to see and be involved in was made under the assumption Clinton would be POTUS.
And, had Sanders somehow become President? Same deal.June 4, 2018 at 7:26 pm #37275
But in the end, all of your planning and involvement resulted in Trump getting elected.
I’m pretty sure Trump has advanced ZERO percent of your interests since being elected.
We can start with the SCOTUS seat.June 5, 2018 at 12:03 am #37276
Let’s work it this way.
Say I agree with you for shits and giggles. Why not?
Ok, what now?
Take me through how we win, step by step.
I will gladly wait. Take your time, think it through.June 5, 2018 at 11:53 am #37283HerbSpectator
The discussion on this thread reminds me of this article:
As one who didn’t vote for Mr. Trump in the primary, the lesson appears to be that whomever the Democrats decide upon to lead their party, some unanimity will be necessary in order to overcome this President’s incumbency, historic low unemployment in the African-American community, the release of North Korean hostages and the 2nd most popular same party President at 500 days in:
Given those noted 1,000 lost seats, it seems the Democrats might want to start with someone the rust belt and Southern states can support. This suggests no gun grabbing to thwart 2nd Amendment rights. That alone may be a fight.June 5, 2018 at 11:57 am #37284cbaravelliSpectator
Walk back to the middle of the road. DNC ‘West Coast Wing’ is driving y’all into the left curb gutter. For most illiterate folks, that’s where a scary clown lives and he eats small children. Hillary Clinton is Pennywise.
Howard Schultz on presidential speculation: ‘Let’s see what happens’:
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