April 25, 2016 at 9:08 pm #19586VitalogyParticipant
Connecticut, Rhode Island, Delaware, Maryland, and Pennsylvania vote tomoorow.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that Trump and Hillary sweep all 5 states.
This will be the point where we all know it’s Hillary vs The Donald.April 26, 2016 at 12:58 am #19591
I don’t have a prediction yet. Will in the AM.
Just got home a bit ago. Fuck it, Bernie wins two. I may have an idea of which two in the AM.April 26, 2016 at 1:17 am #19592skepticalParticipant
Looks like everything will go for Clinton except RI where it’s a tie of some sort. My coin flip says Clinton. If Bernie gets a second state, it’ll be Connecticut.April 26, 2016 at 9:29 am #19599
I’m happy so long as the others are close.April 26, 2016 at 6:51 pm #19605LurkingGrendelParticipant
It largely wasn’t close. Hill crushed it.
It’s over. The Sanders campaign knows it as well. They’re already making (careful n’ quiet) noises about how to wind this thing down, make a graceful exit, and not sabotage the presumptive Democratic nominee who will be facing, barring a zombie uprising, Donald Trump.
Time to get on board and deny a dangerously ignorant, racist, xenophobic, gleeful know-nothing, bombastic and rude douche-nozzle The White House.April 26, 2016 at 8:03 pm #19607edselehrParticipant
Ah, but even if The Donald is the nominee, what kind of nominee will he be? We won’t know that until we see what condition he is in after the convention. Will the GOP rally around him? Will the establishment disown him, essentially conceding the White House, in order to save their chance at retaining a majority in the House and Senate? We won’t know the true nature of Hillary’s opposition until July, so we’ll need to stay tuned.April 27, 2016 at 8:13 am #19609April 27, 2016 at 1:20 pm #19615VitalogyParticipant
Bernie Bros need to get a check on reality. He’s not winning, and won’t win.
I’m actually starting to get annoyed with Bernie supporters.April 27, 2016 at 1:33 pm #19616April 27, 2016 at 2:26 pm #19619paulwalkerParticipant
Ted is just playing games with this premature move. He can’t win the nomination delegate wise, so he is trying to make sure Trump can’t either by trying to steal the attention. Just like a couple of three year olds.April 27, 2016 at 2:36 pm #19621
Yes, the annoyance factor is rising. Changing party direction and priority isn’t going to be pretty.
The exciting thing is a 50 State Progressive play being developed. The people money can work this way. Run one against everybody! The activism, contacts, lists, etc… are up, running and not owned by the DNC.
Midterms, along with elections going on this year could get exciting. There is one early win already. Tweets wife lost to a Berniecrats yesterday. 😀
It’s a longer game play guys. That is why the campaign is closing some offices to improve funding and resource focus on remaining States.
Win or lose, there is a plan forward. It would be nice to get the win, but not necessary. Progressives are just going to start taking seats. It’s the only way to get meaningful leverage.
The future of the party does not trend the same way as the current dominant party leaders do, and those numbers are growing.
It is long past time we improve performance for ordinary people. And the movement isn’t asking. That just doesn’t work and everyone knows that.
Between now and Philly a lot of building can get done. I’m stoked!April 27, 2016 at 2:39 pm #19622
One litmus test is TPP. I am opposed on all fronts. We do not need that treaty, and it goes against all I stand for too.
That is a line I cannot cross. Won’t either. Whoever says yes to that think is on my shit list permenantly. Yes, it is that bad.
Clinton and Obama helped get it organized too. Doing that is a grave betrayal. I appreciate all the good done, but I cannot condone that knife to the heart of what is left of the middle class.April 27, 2016 at 3:08 pm #19623LurkingGrendelParticipant
We are going to have to agree to disagree here, apparently.
In a nutshell, you’ve just encapsulated why I’m just completely exasperated by Sanders supporters at this point.
More Democratic primary voters have clicked the lever for her than Mr. Sanders. Period. He’s had no real path what-so-ever to the nomination for months.
I’m unclear at what point having the majority of support equates to not being deserving of being the party nominee. But I digress.
Do I agree with Hillary Clinton (or Barak Obama for that matter) on everything? Of course not.
However, we live in a system where there are going to be two people to choose between this fall. The continuing, largely disconnected from pragmatic reality, caterwauling from the Bernie crowd is doing nothing but make the possibility of a President Trump more likely. That’s a hard truth, sir.
The only thing you accomplish by working outside of the system is being excluded from the end result. We’d ask President Gore his opinion on the matter but as it turns out that failed to happen.April 27, 2016 at 5:13 pm #19624
And she is likely, and rightfully going to get the nomination. And that is fine.
So, it’s time for Progressives to just start taking seats. Simple as that.
Here is what drives me, and a lot of other people:
We shit on the kids. I’m Gen X and arguably, most of my peers are not better off than their parents were. I am, but then again, I came from sometimes profound poverty too. Didn’t take much to exceed that.
My own kids are experiencing a cost and risk exposure that I would have found daunting, and that may well have snuffed out the life I ended up able to make happen.
This is not OK.
TPP and the one for the EU, which escapes me at this moment, isn’t going to improve things for the vast majority of Americans. That is just not OK either.
At what point do people just accept these things? Apparently, we are at one of those inflection points right now. I definitely feel it, and those who have read me here over the years would have an extremely hard time finding validation for the current party direction in those words.
The best you can find, and I myself have gone looking just so you know, is general support for incrementalism. An example would be recognition of the net good inherent in the ACA, being an easy and recent one.
Every single one of these trade agreements has cost a lot of us to benefit a much smaller fraction of us, and also benefit others in the world too. That’s the globalist argument.
Having made three career jumps to stay out front of these things, and having seen some of my peers and family fail, another one with the broad scope of TPP is completely unacceptable.
And it’s my fucking party doing it too.
That same party has done people a solid on social issues, and lots of other bits here and there. So it’s not all bad, and definitely not worth risking the GOP.
Full ticket votes coming from me. As usual.
But, that does not mean the potential for improvement is off the table. The taking of seats needs to happen whether Sanders gets the nomination. That is movement activity. We won one last night.
Nor should it!
So, in this day of money in politics, if we don’t like our choices, we fund better ones, and when we do that, we aren’t asking. It’s a market and in that market the people and the ideas compete.
Would be nice to not have to do that, but we do actually have to do that.
Now, all of that is precisely why the Sanders campaign will run the entire primary and argue it’s case for both the better vision and electability.
We all paid up for that to happen, and we expect a return on that investment same as anyone else. Law of the land.
If Sanders somehow wins, great! If not, that’s OK too. Plenty to do, and it’s important to get the message out, have everyone vote and then we take the movement from there, having built up the expertise and structure needed in all 50 States.
There is absolutely no reason at all for a competetive campaign to step out of the primaries. The party will end up stronger for it and a lot of people get presented with a meaningful economic policy vision not being put on the table otherwise.
Democracy in action.
As for Trump, it is just it’s simple:
First, thete is absolutely no real reason to be concerned about Trump AT ALL. He is an idiot buffoon.
If we have any concern about Trump, it is due to our own party being tepid. Fair?
We want a strong party to defeat Trump soundly. Also fair?
I think so.
Great. Whoever wins the nom need only recognize that some 40 percent of the party and their indie voting friends agenda and support will be strong. No Trump. I said recognition, not dictation. Remember that.
If our winner can’t seem to do that?
Well, the party will be weaker.
So tell me, how we are supposed to get people excited on a fear and shame message alone? Doesn’t happen. That is what our friends on the right do. Not Democrats.
You want a strong party like I do?
Then it’s important to recognize and act on what Sanders has to say. A ton of people funded that message because they are not being heard otherwise. They come very close to actually winning. Good. It is a strong message for damn good reason too.
As far as I am concerned, there is no reason in the world to worry about Trump so long as Democrats choose to do right enough by the people to get the great support we all know is possible for them.
Party unity is entirely possible. Let’s see what our winner actually does, before we go freaking out over Trump.April 27, 2016 at 5:38 pm #19625
Here is another way to look at the problem:
“Shut up and get on the bus” arguments, potentially coupled with fear and shame arguments, will absolutely work when either:
1. The compromise, in the opposition view, is acceptable, or livable, but maybe just undesirable. In other words, “you don’t get a pony, but it’s not so bad otherwise.” TPP and friends really make that a hard argument.
SCOTUS makes it a reasonable argument. Wonder how people will choose?
2. The opposition is not of a size and funding level to present a meaningful, effective opposition. This is where Progressives have been for 20 some odd years.
This year, the number of people not feeling that the party politics has enough value for them, is high. Secondly, it’s high enough that they will actually pay money about it! Before it’s over, that sum will hit or exceed 200 million bucks! That’s effective and meaningful opposition. Totally worth consideration. No reason not to.
(which is why there is no reason to worry about Trump and party unity, other than our winner flat out refusing to recognize what the party needs)
We’ve got a genuine problem. No bones about it. Way too many people just aren’t happy with the “Get on the bus” options, and they’ve funded their preferred message big. Big enough to make the numbers needed to be an official part of the party platform, rules, etc… That happened just last night.
That puts this movement into the system proper. Dollars and votes are sufficient to meet the bar to be an official recognized part of the party now. Ideally, this movement can take more power, but for now it does represent Democrats straight up. In system. On people money. This is extremely hard to argue away.
This is also why the calls to get out have been near constant too. It is about more than the math here.
So now, “the party” has a dilemma. It can either, ignore those people, run with the fear and shame, and the “you lose, it’s our way or nothing” argument, and take what support it ends up with into the general, or it can incorporate this large body of support into the overall vision and run strong into the general!
That’s on whoever gets the nomination. It’s not on the voters. Nobody, including Sanders can dictate to them. What they can do is attract them. That’s how it works. By design.
Secondly, given where the funding is, let’s say after the primaries, Sanders manages to continue a small bit of that funding. A quarter, or a third, just for grins. More may be possible if good people are on great tickets too.
What’s that good for?
And we’ve not had this play out before!
Round up to 100 million bucks coming from excited and motivated people and what happens when they want to take seats?
They are very likely to take them, and that’s precisely what is gonna happen now, and during the midterms. That makes me very happy. About goddammed time. And again, one got taken last night. People money. Enough to fund anywhere from tens to a few hundred contests and win a lot of them. This is AWESOME!
From the perspective of these voters, people who just aren’t seeing policy that makes good enough sense for them, it’s a Democracy, and if they want more, they have to pay up, stand up, and go and get it. In fact, that’s what we are told to do. So here we are, people doing exactly that and the problem is what again?
And that’s it! Sanders in a nutshell. He stepped up, and now it’s here, it’s large, and what else is there to be done but go forward and do the work to make better stuff happen. Truth is, this has been building for a while. Sanders galvanized it all, right place, right time. Now that it’s real and meaningful, it’s not going to just go away. Why should it?
Sanders could tip over tomorrow and a lot of that will likely carry forward now, on it’s own. People see their people money can compete, and they see the potential for change that benefits them in all of that.
What reason at all do they have not to act on it?
Zero, and that’s why I’m a fan. Hope it all continues to go big. We could get some real good things done.
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