Donald Trump Doesn't Really Matter to Donald Trump Supporters

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  • #22919
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    I’m cutting back on my own interaction with many of my friends and others who support Trump. It’s simply a waste of time. John Pavlovitz concurs.

    “The redemptive act in the face of this kind of fear is to live and to vote as a direct and unflinching response to that fear; to nullify it and render it helpless and show it for the paper tiger it is.”

    #22922

    It’s not that complicated. We think Hillary would be a very bad president and electing her is not in the best interests of our nation.

    #22923
    Amus
    Participant

    It is pointless because it is embedded in the personality type.

    Missing (which I am indeed missing these days) brought this to my attention years ago. If you have not read it, you really ought to.

    It explains so much of what’s going on, including Trump’s admiration of Putin;

    The Authoritarians – by Bob Altemeyer

    He sums it up nicely towards the end of the book in a paragraph that I keep being reminded of when I hear a Trumper;

    You’re not likely to get anywhere arguing with authoritarians.

    If you won every round of a 15 round heavyweight debate with a Double High leader over history, logic, scientific evidence, the Constitution, you name it, in an auditorium filled with high RWAs, the audience probably would not change its beliefs one tiny bit.

    Authoritarian followers might even cling to their beliefs more tightly, the wronger they turned out to be.

    Trying to change highly dogmatic, evidence-immune, group-gripping people in such a setting is like pissing into the wind.

    See also;

    The rise of American authoritarianism

    #22924

    The look-down-their-noses-at-the-Trumpsters types never seem to acknowledge the elephant in their living room.

    #22925
    Amus
    Participant

    The look-down-their-noses-at-the-Trumpsters types…

    You make it so easy.
    You could be the poster child of the authoritarian follower.

    #22927

    We could turn the title of the thread around: Hillary Clinton doesn’t matter to Hillary Clinton supporters.

    Trump is the Republican candidate. He’s a better alternative to Hillary Clinton by far. I could easily have voted for Bush, Kasich, Rubio, or Christie, had any of them been the candidate. The “authoritarian” label would have been pinned regardless.

    The problem with Pavlovitz and other extreme left wingers is they can’t just agree to disagree and accept that those who disagree do so in good faith and with good intentions.

    #22933
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    I haven’t been able to find the link, but a researcher from either Gallop or Pew Research, did a year long study (June 2015-June 2016) on Trump supporters. One of the things the research found is – Trump supporters are typical middle class income earners both in blue and white collar jobs. They make pretty much what non Trump supporters earn. They have pensions and are investors. They look very much like any other GOP or even some Dem voters.

    However, the research found that Trump supporters feel isolated. The world has been changing to a more inclusive society towards women, LGBTQ people, blacks, latinos, hispanics, muslims and many others. The PC world has created an environment where what Trump supporters could say out loud without repercussion, is now a place where one must edit thyself or face serious backlash.

    Obama was slammed by the right leaning media because of his inexperience when he was running and eventually became POTUS. That same media doesn’t seem to be concerned about Trump’s even less experience, as in no experience. However, Hilary, is even more experienced than Obama was entering into this campaign.

    Get used to Madame President.

    #22934
    Andy Brown
    Participant

    “a better alternative to Hillary Clinton by far.”

    Not for the bible thumping, misogynistic, racist, homophobic extremists like you. Trump may be the Republican nominee, but the evidence is clear: he is not a Republican (he is the quintessential example of a RINO, a term you like to use), he is not a conservative nor is he pro life, pro middle class nor pro anyone but himself. The evidence to prove that is so overwhelming I’ll spare the others repeating all the proof that exists that shows drumpf is just a self serving uber wealthy power seeker.

    “those who disagree do so in good faith and with good intentions.”

    I’m sure some do. You are not one of them. You have provided nothing in the last 6 months other then ‘Clinton bad, any Republican good’ statements that lack substance, merit or even anecdotal information about why a drumpf presidency would benefit YOU let alone us. SCOTUS? Forget your wet dream about Roe v Wade. It’s not going to happen, ever. The big question you should ask yourself is how you are going to deal with not only drumpf’s loss in the presidential race but the loss of conservative power in Congress which is a certainty. It’s really just a question of how much the GOP will lose, not if they will. You have not really shown any facts why Clinton is bad, either, but seem content to simply repost the party line rhetoric. Clinton has experience far beyond even the dreams of drumpf and has never been indicted for any criminal activity.

    Yeah, we know, the ‘system’ is rigged against you perverse minded head in the sand mind in the clouds hypocritical jerks.

    There is no credible evidence either that drumpf has even a reasonable chance to winning. The odds are stacked against a drumpf presidency. It’s the biggest conservative pipe dream (that isn’t even held by all conservatives only the whacko contingent you are a part of) since Goldwater.

    No soup for you, Vernon. Just a big pile of steaming hot crow come election day.

    #22938
    Alfredo_T
    Participant

    In reference to the original subject line in this thread, I think that there is an element of nihilism in Trump supporters. They believe that the system is so broken that it is acceptable–or perhaps even highly desirable–to vote in somebody who has no experience in governmental service. This is the attraction to “mavericks” and the disdain for “elites.” Perhaps, their intent is to deliberately throw a monkey wrench into the works with Trump.

    #22939

    However, the research found that Trump supporters feel isolated. The world has been changing to a more inclusive society towards women, LGBTQ people, blacks, latinos, hispanics, muslims and many others. The PC world has created an environment where what Trump supporters could say out loud without repercussion, is now a place where one must edit thyself or face serious backlash.

    It always comes down to judgement and condescension, doesn’t it? Why…anyone who votes for Trump must be a bigot, a homophobe, a xenophobe, a transaphobe, a phobophobe. They hate women too, and they torture puppies and kitties.

    They couldn’t possibly have any good reasons to not want Hillary Clinton as president…

    “Hillary Clinton believes that “religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed” to expand access to abortion. Clinton said today that it’s not enough to legalize the procedure. “Far too many women are denied access to reproductive health care and safe childbirth, and laws don’t count for much if they’re not enforced,” she said Thursday, per the Daily Caller. “And deep-seated cultural codes, religious beliefs and structural biases have to be changed.”

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417448/hillary-clinton-religious-beliefs-have-be-changed-accommodate-abortion-joel-gehrke”

    Wow…

    #22940
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Your dream of abortion becoming illegal died with Scalia.

    Not all Trump supporters are bigots, racists, etc. But if you are one of those, you prefer Trump. Just ask this guy…

    http://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2016/09/pro-trump_oregon_man_tours_northwest_in_swastika_truck.html

    Oregon man who drove swastika-emblazoned truck repaints to support Donald Trump.

    #22945
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    F&B…Did you see how you spun my words to reflect that all Trump supports are bigots. That’s not what I posted. I wrote they feel isolated from the changing world around them. What they once knew has either gone away or is changing currently.

    No longer can “boys be boys” without some kind of accountability…think Brock Turner. Black Lives Matters aren’t saying other lives don’t matter. But unless you are reminded of the color of your skin everyday of your life…you don’t get it.

    America has been changing for decades – and the influence of millennials, who grew up with transgendered, gay and lesbian schoolmates and friends and family members, and whom some parents were of the same-sex, recognize some the archaic language that needs changing.

    My father is 90 years old, and when the subject of the “Good ol’ days” comes up, his response is…”they were so good.” He lived them…the knows.

    I don’t think for a moment all Trump supporters are bigots…ignorant at times…but that can be changed by getting educated about those you don’t understand.

    As a little kid, I thought all the stories in the bible were true. As I got older, getting educated, seeking advice from those who knew far more than I (which is what I still do today), I grew out of my child ignorance and into a more mature journey of faith that continues to this day. And it’s an ever evolving journey. This is where I believe many Trump supporters choose to stay ignorant.

    As one very conservative friend of mine wrote on his facebook page a couple months back, “If Trump wins the presidency, you’ll miss Obama.” Even my jaw dropped a bit.

    #22948
    Amus
    Participant

    “Trump is the Republican candidate. He’s a better alternative to Hillary Clinton by far. I could easily have voted for Bush, Kasich, Rubio, or Christie, had any of them been the candidate. The “authoritarian” label would have been pinned regardless.”

    Au contraire.

    It fits perfectly.

    The only one of those that might not be considered an authoritarian could be Kasich, maybe.

    I noticed you left out the two dominionists, Huckabee & Cruz.

    That Trump is obviously the most authoritarianist by far, doesn’t change the facts.

    I understand that your prime directive is to use the government that you otherwise think should stay out of people’s lives to enforce your religious proclivities on those that don’t share them. I get that, you’ve made it abundantly clear.

    There is nothing that “trumps” that in your eyes, even the fact that if elected, the President would be in debt to Russian oligarchs, and has professed his admiration of an autocratic enemy of the United States.

    As to;
    “Trump is the Republican candidate. He’s a better alternative to Hillary Clinton by far”

    No one who operates on facts, logic and who exercises critical thinking skills would come to the same conclusion.

    For 30 year you have heard authority figures (Limbaugh, Fox etc. etc.) tell you that the Clintons are guilty of a litany of crimes from land schemes to outright murder and you have no trouble accepting that.
    No amount of facts or logic could sway you from that.

    After all, those same authority figures told you that anyone who tells you otherwise is lying, there is no point in even questioning them.

    #22951

    This discussion happens to be one relating to religion so expressing religious beliefs here is more than appropriate.

    I don’t need Rush Limbaugh or anyone else to tell me that Hillary Clinton lied to the American people about her emails. That’s not really debatable anymore unless we are going to be clintonesque about it and parse the meaning of “lie.”

    I mentioned some Republican candidates. I forgot about a some of them–there were so many. And I think any one of them would have been a very good president.

    I can’t remember the name of the fellow whose Blog Chris follows, but he was opining that he could not find a faith-based reason to vote for Trump. I submit that that one is a no-brainer. Human rights concerns are very much faith based, though they do not have to be. There are some things that are obvious to anyone who has common sense and compassion, such as it being wrong to kill another human being unless there is a very good reason for doing so, such as self defense. But at any rate, “thou shalt not kill” is a big part of my faith and the faith of millions, and that commandment, at least to the largest Christian “denomination” of them all and most of the other denominates extends to those human beings (who have beating hearts, brain waves, and their own unique DNA) who are still dependent upon their mothers for their existence in the womb.

    Hillary Clinton is by no means in favor of protecting these innocent lives. Donald Trump at least professes to be pro-life and he has backed that up with a list of what I understand are acceptable Supreme Court nominees.

    Abortion is a horrible injustice and I and most Christians and people of good will cannot in good conscience vote for someone who has the power to advance our abortion culture. While with Trump there would unlikely be a reversal, there could be steps taken in the right direction. Certainly there would be none taken by Clinton.

    Many who don’t have religious beliefs will vigorously disagree with me and/or attack me personally. Whatever…I’ve provided just one of many reasons why a Christian would favor Trump.

    Another faith-based reason would be that I believe we ought to be good stewards of our resources. I believe Donald Trump would be less inclined to squander resources as would Hillary (and other Democratic candidates).

    The fellow in his blog does not give one good reason to vote for Hillary Clinton. It’s as if she by default deserves to be president. He’s scratching his head wondering how anyone could be so blind to vote for Trump, but does not once consider that these people he thinks are so motivated by “fear” might think that his preferred candidate has some issues of her own.

    It’s not really all that complicated. I think Trump would be a much better president than Hillary Clinton. It has nothing to do with “authoritarianism” (whatever that is), “bigotry,” “xenophobia” or any of those other strawmen posited by those who have some serious blind spots and/or a need to feel superior.

    @Chris

    My apologies for the misunderstanding and misrepresentation. I thought that’s what you were implying. On the other hand I think you ought to give your friends the benefit of the doubt and accept the possibility that they have made their decision to vote for Trump based on reason and goodwill. They are not necessarily ignorant or motivated by some lower desires.

    They might (or probably LIKELY) see Hillary Clinton in the same way (or worse) as you see Trump.

    #22952
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Hillary is much more Christian than Trump is. Trump doesn’t even go to church. He’s playing you guys for fools.

    Like I said though, doesn’t matter. Hillary will tilt the court so far left your fucking head is going to explode.

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