Dem party losses systemic

This topic contains 28 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  HD 2 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #25757

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/the-decimation-of-the-democratic-party-visualized/?postshare=8591479068142743&tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.d61b25f3cc63

    I’m putting this here to check the growing opinion we did OK during this election. We did, frankly. Given the mess, it’s not a bad outcome.

    But, the misalignment between the party and ordinary Americans continues to be a problem, and like growing poverty, ongoing seat losses have eroded a lot of power away.

    I’m going to make the “step away from the same old, same old” argument for these reasons. It’s not working.

    Yeah, say obstruction, etc…

    I’ll say there was no fight on numerous occasions when there could have been too.

    We need to change that.

    Our current scenario is pretty damn grim. Trump will max out his opportunity and we aren’t going to like it. Some of us will die out of hand too. That’s how much we won’t like it.

    Mid-terms are coming up, and if Dems aren’t out there with a damn solid, well aligned message and meaningful ideas the coming wave could double those losses in a single election.

    Republicans in North Carolina fucking redefined what a Governor actually IS to thwart an incoming Dem by stripping their authority. There will be a lot more of that shit.

    The GOP are a bunch of asses, and they too will regret Trump, but they will also go to the mat to see it through too.

    Right now, these future of the party discussions really matter. If we continue with the old guard and it’s approach, I’m not excited. I don’t see a win in there for us.

    People need to vote for. Not against, or because fear, shame, trump. And we have got to quit blaming them and shaming them.

    That shit won’t work any better for Democrats than it does your local church.

    #25836

    HD
    Participant
    #25837

    paulwalker
    Participant

    Food stamp recipients increased during Obama because he inherited the worst recession in modern times. Is this not obvious? Another example of Fox turning stats into “their” reality without any critical thinking.

    #25842

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Yes, but the recovery is not shared by everyone. 70 some percent of the new jobs are minimum wage and or part time.

    Worse, working those denies people food stamps, all of which contributed to a massive expansion of the working poor.

    Dems are no friends to the poor and middle class.

    We must change that.

    #25843

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Let’s not forget that a grand majority of those food stamp recipients are white working class (uneducated and low skill) workers in the rust and bible belts who voted for Trump.

    #25855

    DanOregon
    Participant

    A couple things – the food stamp program is as much a “handout” to farmers and others in food supply as it is to those who rely on food stamps to eat.

    Second, the biggest problem with the Dems (at least at the national level) is that their leadership is off-brand. The party identifies with younger more diverse voters and the leadership in DC (with the exception of the President) is old and white.

    #25858

    Andy Brown
    Participant

    “a grand majority of those food stamp recipients are white working class (uneducated and low skill) workers in the rust and bible belts”

    That is largely incorrect whether you look at raw numbers of people receiving the benefits or percentage of households in the state.

    In the top 5 by percentage (Mississippi, D.C., New Mexico, Oregon and Tennessee) only two are in the bible belt and none are in the rust belt.

    California, Texas, New York and Florida lead by total enrolled in the program.

    http://www.cheatsheet.com/view-image/?src=2015/01/food-stamp-chart-final-feb-2015.jpg&9a1f0d

    #25859

    Andy Brown
    Participant

    “Let’s not forget that a grand majority of those food stamp recipients are white working class (uneducated and low skill) workers in the rust and bible belts who voted for Trump.”

    Incorrect. Whether you go by raw numbers by state or percentage of households by state, the math doesn’t agree. It may be a majority but barely. You can add it up if you want and let us know, but there are several states that straddle the referenced ‘belts’ and without a county by county count it is inaccurate to put them totally in or out.

    http://www.cheatsheet.com/view-image/?src=2015/01/food-stamp-chart-final-feb-2015.jpg

    #25874

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Who cares?

    They are in economic need, along with a majority of the nation.

    Blame and shame won’t improve it. Better economic policy will improve it.

    This isn’t about “those other people.”

    It is all about better economic policy, long overdue.

    We got Trump because we have ignored labor and the middle class to the point where people do not believe the establishment left has answers.

    Want to get rid of and limit the harm?

    Quit ignoring people.

    I’m not saying what they did is right. They did do it. I do not blame them.

    #25880

    HD
    Participant

    There are plenty of reasons for Trump’s victory and why Republicans now hold more state houses and governorships. Here’s one recent analysis:

    And that’s why Trump won


    Sure, overreaching is one reason. But it’s symptomatic of a serious disconnect with voters.

    Like saying ‘climate change’ is more dangerous than ISIS. That doesn’t sell…and for many, simply doesn’t ring true.

    Or helping our borders to be over-run by those who wish us harm, whether they are terrorists, drug dealers, or rapists…while at the same time pushing to disarm law-abiding citizens.

    Or insisting that true employment is significantly improved, whilst cooking the books in not considering those who simply stopped looking for work. Shovel ready jobs, anyone?

    Consider Trump’s huge election rally turnouts, juxtaposed against Hillary’s meager attendance.

    This isn’t a single factor situation. The Democrat party is indeed now run by an elitist fringe who may rule the coasts and inner city, but not much else. But given the utter chaos in Democrat-controlled, so-called ‘gun-free’ cities like Chicago, ‘that dog won’t hunt’ for many common sense Americans.

    Voters elected an African-American twice to our nation’s highest office, so stop calling them racist. There’s a difference between getting elected and effectively governing. He could have had a real legacy, but Barry blew it and Republicans will now be naming appointees to the Supreme Court.

    Democrat leaders act surprised their lack of connection with the voting public didn’t hand them a win. The problem is they believed their press, which they largely own…but not voters.

    More people watch NASCAR than MSNBC. And when those people get energized enough to vote, you better not have been attacking what they hold dear.

    http://www.bizpacreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/electoral-map-by-county.jpg

    For starters:

    (1). Don’t infringe on the Second Amendment (which even Bill Clinton understood).

    (2). Don’t hate on America with apology tours or arrange alliances with factions like Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Al Sharpton and BLM. Our country has a lot of veterans of all races who love their country and risked dying for it.

    (3). Help Americans feel safer with common sense immigration policy.

    (4). Don’t dismiss those with deeply held traditional beliefs…like labeling them ‘bitter clingers.’

    (5). Remember James Carville’s mantra: “It’s the economy, stupid.”

    Mr. Trump isn’t even president yet, but he’s already in the process of bringing back thousands of jobs by reaching out to Carrier and Sprint.

    That’s the party of the ‘little guy’ and one reason why Trump won.

    #25881

    edselehr
    Participant

    This is a more accurate county-by-county map (this one is adjusted for population – since as you know Herb, land doesn’t vote):

    There is no way to weasel around the fact that most Americans don’t want Trump to be President. The Framers of the Constitution allowed Trump to win, not the American people.

    #25883

    Andy Brown
    Participant

    “Mr. Trump isn’t even president yet, but he’s already in the process of bringing back thousands of jobs by reaching out to Carrier and Sprint.”

    A large misrepresentation of facts, Herb. First off, most of the jobs were lost by your boy Dubya’s and his Republican cohorts by their aggressive and misplaced actions (two unfunded wars, tax breaks for the wealthiest people and corporations) between 2000 and 2008. The Obama team bailed out the economy and in 2016 over 2.2 million new jobs have been created. In addition, the largest amount of jobs lost to overseas relocation by U.S. corporations also happened under Dubya’s watch.Between August 2000 and February 2004, manufacturing jobs were lost for a stunning 43 consecutive months—the longest such stretch since the Great Depression. (source: Center For American Progress). So drumpf is hardly making a dent in increasing jobs in the U.S. and it also begs the discussion as to the quality of the jobs this tiny drop in the bucket by drumpf actually creates. But wait, there’s more.

    “Don’t hate on America with apology tours or arrange alliances with factions like Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Al Sharpton and BLM. Our country has a lot of veterans of all races who love their country and risked dying for it.”

    Fer Christ’s sake, Herb, wake up. It’s the GOP Congress that keeps voting down increases in spending targeted for veterans. It’s drumpf that has put racist, homophobic, good ol’ boy Republicans into key positions within his administration so it appears your statement is worthless.

    Try cutting and pasting something a little more accurate next time. Oh, and the progressive liberal voter knows why drumpf won and it had nothing to do with them embracing drumpf.

    Oh, and BTW, Roe v Wade will not be overturned. Not soon, not ever. drumpf will get to replace Scalia but that will be all unless someone dies.

    The drumpf presidency will begin to unravel on Jan. 20 when his actions will sink his own ship. Are you ready for that? Are you ready for actions by the GOP Congress that makes your life harder? Do you think for a minute that Republicans are going to cut middle class America a break? Are you that stupid, Herb? I thought you were somewhat limited in complex analysis but not as stupid as bacon and dork. Do you think drumpf is going to satisfy and quell the anger that got him elected? Are you that out of touch with reality? For those worried about corruption and cronyism, drumpf’s coming for-profit presidency will hardly “drain the swamp.” Rather, it will create a new one, albeit with large, gold-plated all caps letters branding it a TRUMP property. Of the first 29 foreign countries with whose leaders Trump spoke after being elected, he had assets in eight. During the campaign, he lauded President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s vicious postcoup-attempt crackdown in Turkey — just a month after Erdogan had suggested taking his name off the Trump Towers in Istanbul.

    Such conflicts will only proliferate once Trump is in office, especially in an administration run by wealthy economic interests; nothing says “white working class” quite like the billionaires in his cabinet. At the same time, every project that bears the Trump brand will be a terrorist target.

    So before you go off beating your chest about drumpf’s rise to power, you’d best circle your own wagons and prepare for the biggest disappointment in American politics since the country was established.

    Or you can dismiss these facts and prognostications and keep your head in the sand where it’s always been. drumpf’s victory in the election is a mere reflection of how many fools think he will help anyone but himself and his billionaire buddies.

    But nevertheless, Herb, have a happy and healthy New Year because drumpf is going to make health insurance costs increase as fast as it was before Obama slowed down its rate of increase, so don’t get sick. After all, that’s been the Republican mantra for decades.

    The more interesting discussion remains in the wings and that is whether drumpf will actually last four years without a scandal so big he will have to resign like your boy Nixon did.

    Remember what Sir John Dalberg-Acton said. It truly applies to drumpf more then anyone in recent history.

    #25886

    “The Framers of the Constitution allowed Trump to win, not the American people.”

    The framers of the Constitution forced Trump to concentrate his campaign efforts in the swing states. Not having the media on his side, as did Clinton, and not having Clinton’s big bucks, he didn’t chase after what would have been wasted votes in California and New York, etc. So they didn’t get his message. All they got was hammering day after day from the Clinton biased media. They didn’t have the opportunity to attend his massive rallies. They could have been won over, but the framers of the Constitution made that effort impractical.

    Get over the idea that Clinton “won” the popular vote or won “more” votes. That wasn’t the game that was being played. If it had been, they both would have campaigned differently and you can’t say that Trump could not have won under those rules. You’re analyzing the game applying a set of rules under which the game was not played.

    Besides that, most votes were also against Clinton. Neither won a majority. You don’t know how the third party voters would have voted or what they now prefer.

    But now that Trump has the power of incumbency, as did Clinton to a degree, since she had Obama on her side, you’re going to see a big difference in the “popular” vote, should he decide to run again. He’ll break through 50%.

    #25901

    edselehr
    Participant

    The Framers handicapped the electoral college in favor of the smaller, more rural states to preserve the basic rights of all states (similar to the basic rights of people) to have a minimal voice in national politics. As long as we all understand that, then fine. I accept that, according to the Constitutional rules, Trump is our President-elect.

    But don’t pretend to think that the election of Trump is an expression of the majority will of all Americans. It is not, by a long shot.

    And what’s that “most votes were against Clinton” bullshit?

    Clinton: 65,844,610 votes (48.2%)
    Trump: 62,979,636 votes (46.1%)
    Other: 7,786,603 votes (5.7%)

    Here is the final popular vote count of the 2016 election just in case you want to feel bad

    Don’t know what spin KoolAid you’ve been chugging, but the “not Trump” vote wins.

    #25904

    Clinton had the most important and effective handicap by having the press in her pocket. She also had more money.

    But you totally ignored my point. In baseball it’s the number of runs that counts, not the number of hits. Clinton got more hits but less runs.

    You DON’T KNOW that Trump could not have won the popular vote had that been the game that was played.

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