Berniecrats finally win an important primary victory in Florida

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This topic contains 18 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  cbaravelli 6 days ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)
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  • #39121

    Andrew
    Participant

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/28/17793198/florida-primary-results-andrew-gillum-governor

    Gillum might have an uphill battle in the Florida general election, in a state that seems to have a huge Trump following. The Republican nominee is a big Trump supporter. Then again, if I were the Republicans, I’d be a little freaked about how he was 4th in polls leading up to the election today and wound up winning. Polls in the fall that show him behind may not be right, either.

    I suppose you could say a Berniecrat winning the governor’s seat in Florida would be a big deal – though he wouldn’t have much impact on Medicare for All being just a governor.

    But this could impact Democrat Sen. Bill Nelson’s difficult re-election campaign. Nelson doesn’t seem to be impressing anyone with his recent campaign at the moment. Not to stereotype too much, but it could be that Gillum increases black turnout significantly – which could help Nelson, assuming most black voters vote for Nelson. Perhaps the Berniecrat support will have a similar effect.

    #39123

    semoochie
    Participant

    How can a swing state have a huge Trump following?

    #39126

    Andrew
    Participant

    Maybe Florida isn’t a “swing state” anymore? Things do change. Oregon used to be a swing state but hasn’t been for a while. In 2000, Al Gore had to keep coming here to campaign (partly due to Ralph Nader) and still barely won here. That was also back when we had a Republican state legislature and one Republican senator. Obviously things have changed a lot since then.

    #39128

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Florida is full of rednecks and rednecks love Trump. I believe FL is no longer a swing state. Gillum is going to lose by a good clip, and I think Bill Nelson is also going to lose as well.

    #39129

    Langston
    Participant

    In Florida Trump had a 1.2% winning margin over HRC.

    #39229

    stevewa
    Participant

    Gillum is not strictly a Berniecrat, as he actually supported HRC in 2016.

    #39232

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Supporting Clinton, or not supporting Clinton is not a qualifier for who, or who is not, a Berniecrat.

    This is:

    https://berniesanders.com/issues/

    Berniecrats adopt most of that platform. They vary, and nobody really cares, because the big ones are on all the individual candidate platforms.

    People talk about cults, and worse. That’s fine. Again, nobody interested in that platform actually cares.

    What they do care about is labor, the downtrodden, ordinary people basically. And they care a whole lot about how a clear majority of the nation is getting fucked raw, no lube, and that we can, need, and will do better.

    Another thing people talk about is, “the left”, and they often draw comparisons to the GOP.

    There is one really fundamental difference:

    (and it’s a difference the current Dem party leadership, Clinton, others also have trouble with)

    The difference is actually doing democracy. The left isn’t using large amounts of money, coercion, dirt of various kinds, to run a top down structure. Democrats are doing that, to a larger degree than they should at present, and doing that has done the party a lot of harm.

    “The left” are being lefties!

    Some of them want to start a third party. Others want to take the Dem party away from the big money. (that’s me) Still others want to run Indie, play the field.

    There is general consensus on the top issues. Medicare for all. Living wages. College debt.

    There is less consensus on other issues.

    And each candidate is their own person, focusing on things they feel are worth it. Often these are local, and doing that makes sense, because they get elected locally, and they need to do that without taking big money, or we are back to that top down structure and the harm again.

    That is democracy. And people talk. Facist! Anarchist! You get the idea, and in fact, you’ve seen all that pointed right at me, just for talking about the ordinary people, and the priority problem we have in this nation today.

    Interesting, isn’t it?

    You can bet your ass I think so.

    “The Left” values these things very highly. And one core part of understanding how it all works, is to understand the idea of centers of gravity.

    See, the big discussion about Demexit vs Dementer, for example! That one will be resolved organically. There isn’t any smoke filled room with ugly people calling shots. There are just people, the political process, voters, and democracy.

    The ones who sell it, win and secure power get heavier. They become centers of gravity. Same goes for those doing issue advocacy, campaigns. Organizers? Yep. Them too.

    And once they get that power, first they gotta actually work for the people who elected them. Not taking big money is the way to do that. Otherwise, it’s about who has the big money. And if you think, for even a minute, somehow that big money does not actually impact politicians?

    Let’s just say that is not true and I’ll be charitable and say believing that is both naive and understandable given the media environment we live in today.

    Second, they need to sell the vision to others. The various centers of gravity all attract voters, other politicians, groups, you get the idea. And where they can show a reasonable, plausible path to addressing those top issues, they are going to be successful.

    Others will continue to see primary challenges.

    The term, “Berniecrat” actually does a bit of harm, because it assigns a lot more to Sanders than he’s actually got hold of. In general, he called for help. And he didn’t call for people to fall in line, do his bidding. No, he called for others, who believe in the vision, who prioritize the top issues in a similar way to jump in and do their part in the political process.

    That help is working on getting there right now. Once it’s there, people will caucus, organize, do all those political, democracy things, and advance the issues.

    And that’s what all this is supposed to be about.

    #39233

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Plenty of us supported Clinton. Sanders supported Clinton.

    Clinton, one could argue, didn’t actually support CLINTON!

    Had she done that, you know, done the work to sell it, garner the support, and do all that political, democracy stuff, we would be having a very different discussion today.

    There still would be Berniecrats. There still would be a lot of people running for office. The left is in conflict with the big money in politics today, and it’s about the top issues impacting ordinary people.

    But, the scenario would be arguably one of advancing faster, rather than coping with the horror show.

    And, by the way, for that to happen, we really do have to seat some people, ideally a lot of people, who aren’t owned by big money. Clinton, Trump, Pence? Do not matter, in that sense.

    Just know that.

    Sadly, we are on the more ugly track.

    Oh well.

    It’s still all about the issues! And those are all about making it better for the clear majority of the nation in real need of it actually being better.

    Berniecrats will tell you those things, most of them.

    #39240

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    How’s Trump working out for you?

    #39244

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Ask Clinton.

    You are not actually capable of a meaningful politics conversation with very large and growing numbers of people, many of whom will just wait you out.

    Think.

    #39246

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    I’m asking you. How’s it working out for you?

    #39247

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    And I am not validating your lame attempt at blame and shame.

    Got much better to do.

    #39254

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Well, I know how it’s working out for you. NOT VERY WELL.

    Next up will be the Berniecrats crying over the Kavanaugh appointment to the SCOTUS. And then again in June 2019 when Roe V Wade is overturned.

    Every single issue you stand for will now be blocked 5-4 by the court for a generation.

    Should have thought about that before you took your ball home and allowed Trump to win.

    #39255

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    You don’t know a damn thing. When you’re actually in a place where we can have a real discussion I’ll tell you.

    For now however, I’ll just keep rubbing it in your face. That is if I have time. I often don’t.

    #39270

    cbaravelli
    Participant

    And I want to look him straight in the eye, and I want to tell him what a cheap, lying, no-good, rotten, four-flushing, low-life, snake-licking, dirt-eating, inbred, overstuffed, ignorant, blood-sucking, dog-kissing, brainless, dickless, hopeless, heartless, fat-assed, bug-eyed, stiff-legged, spotty-lipped, worm-headed, sack of monkey shit he is! Hallelujah! … Where’s the Tylenol?

    He’s arguing in a vacuum. No one can hear him and then he dies.

    I have a phobic fear of being knocked down and run over by an electric car.

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