March 7, 2019 at 2:02 am #41121
Caucuses with Dems
Paid dues Dems pay
Listed on Senate Dems website
Supported and helped amend, and or pass, tons of Dem oarty legislation
Won 22 State primaries as a Dem
VT Dems recognize Bernie as a Dem
Has significant party membership support
Has campaigned for Dems
So, those opportunistic Dems who won their mid-term elections are not “real” Dems?” I do not think so. They are.
I feel moderates who switch to Dem are Dems too, I just do not like them very much. The way to deal is to primary them and run activism campaigns against them.
Calling out “not a dem” makes no sense.
They are just as real as Bernie is.
There are only two differences:
Big money / Base of power.
See, I think the not a Dem bullshit boils down to those two things and how difficult it is to compete with someone able to take great policy right to thr people, sans big money gatekeepers.
While others were dialing for big money, Bernie was working the crowd.
Lets face it, you dislike Bernie. That is honest, OK, and you get to do that.
I have Dems I dislike. Harris is at the top of that list, BTW.
I probably will not vote for her either. Maybe she will fizzle out.
And all that, what I put here is honest, I get to do that, and it is OK.
We are both party members, Dems
That is what big tent looks like.March 7, 2019 at 7:26 pm #41122
You don’t want a big tent. You want an exclusive tent with purity. And while your posts drip of mania tendencies the math doesn’t lie. Minorities have zero power, as evidenced by the last few years after your ilk decided that Trump and Hillary were the same evil.March 7, 2019 at 8:49 pm #41125
Not at all.
As I have presented here many times, the fact is too many Americans are unwilling to vote for more of the same politics that got us here.
You can rage, whine, employ fear, blame and shame until you tip over, frothy!
None of that has an impact.
It is entirely reasonable to get after better for All Americans, and equally reasonable to question the current priority.
And let us face it, the selfish ones, unwilling to stand with the downtrodden have a far weaker moral case. Embarrassingly so.
Now, the fact also is as strong as Bernie’s ideas are, timely too, naysayers are completely free to do one better. I strongly encourage it.
Bernie would, frankly.
Minorities have zero power?
Well, best you do not blame the powerless for Trump then. While you are at it, you can come to Jesus on Clinton being responsible for her loss to Trump too.
Which is it?
Powerless, in need of solid representation, or not?
If not, maybe, just maybe they have a place in the political process same as anyone.
Again. Which is it?
I voted for her, Remember? Though I will tell you right now, I will not ever vote for Harris. Hard pass. I am only good for one stupid ass vote. It sucks to pick the lesser of greater evils, but it is way worse when that person acts like an entitled Queen and blows it against the “gimme” opponent she and Bill encouraged to run!
Bet you that stings. Oh yeah. Hubris biting back hard. I won’t shed a single tear.March 8, 2019 at 11:03 am #41129
Minorities as in political minorities, not race. How many judges have the minority confirmed? Laws passed? Executive orders? ZERO.
And if you face the choice of Harris or Trump and you don’t vote for Harris you’re a complete jackass and deserve any and all hardship that comes your way as a result.March 8, 2019 at 2:05 pm #41132
Minorities can, and are denying continued politics that do more harm than good.
That’s the message. All Americans, or take another 4 year beating like the rest of the people will anyway.
A lesser beating is still a beating.
Put another way, if so many Americans are gonna have it rougher than they need to, why don’t you join them?
You being the establishment big money Dems and supporters.
Win together, or lose together, and there needs to be something in it for everyone to get the win. That is what a real left looks like.
Without it, we just tack ever farther right and doing that just does not work, and it is not really incremental change for the better either.
Frog boiling is what it is.
And doing that is not necessary at all.March 8, 2019 at 2:06 pm #41133
I will never, ever cast a vote for Harris. Ever.
She gets the nom, and I absolutely will double down and do what I can to prevent her election.
Hard fucking pass.
Others might just get a no vote.
Warren? Yes, likely.March 8, 2019 at 2:14 pm #41134
You’re an idiot.March 8, 2019 at 3:11 pm #41137
You get to say that, and I get to hard pass on Harris, and like Clinton, there is a LOT of that out there.
She’s a party liability at this point.March 8, 2019 at 3:42 pm #41138
Oh, let’s do this!
If you all are super duper nice, maybe, just maybe I can be convinced to give Harris a vote, should she be in a position to see one cast.
I thought it instructive to mirror what the Clinton staffers and other support staff basically did. Was FUCK Bernie from the get go. And they are super chapped about his second run today.
Sucks doesn’t it? Enraging isn’t it?
Yeah, me too.
I could be convinced to give Harris a vote. She’s got work to do, that work Clinton didn’t do. Should she get the nom, and do it, I won’t be inclined to hard pass.
See how that all works? Now mirror that across the population. That’s what we are facing politically.
It’s not just me, not by a long shot. Way too many Americans are not happy with the politics. Their votes are gonna need to be garnered.
And every last one of those people gets to, and will think, and do as they please. ALL OF THEM.
Now, doesn’t this highlight, even just a little, why aggressive, “fuck you” fear, blame and shame, is an extremely bad idea?
Hope it does.
So, why not play nice from now on, you know, for the lesser of the greater evils?
The Bernie staff have committed to no negatives. Did you watch his first three stump speeches? He abided by that agreement perfectly.
Let’s keep a watch shall we?
😀March 8, 2019 at 4:16 pm #41139
Missing: “I will never, ever cast a vote for Harris. Ever.”
And that’s how you get another four years of Trump…and eight years of Mike Pence. But at least it gives you something to complain about for twelve years, right?
Unlike you, I would vote for Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren in a heartbeat over Trump, even if I think both of them would be terrible choices for president, even if elected.March 8, 2019 at 4:31 pm #41140
Go and look at the complaint to action / activism ratio. Trump sucks. Lots of things sucked before Trump.
Work on those is being done, and that’s where I put my time.
Didn’t spend the last two years complaining about Trump all that much. Lots to complain about, and I’ve done that a time or two.
Beyond that? Waste of time.
Let’s just say I’m not inclined to reward fear, blame and shame. And the shit some people are dishing out here?
Let’s also say I care exactly as much as they do.
Ideally, it’s not Harris 😀
Or, plan b, c, d, maybe! I could be convinced, but there is a LOT of work to do there. A whole lot. Let’s see whether she is inclined to do any of it.March 8, 2019 at 5:48 pm #41141
Oh, but you’ve done lots of complaining about the Democratic Party and Hillary Clinton, right? If you can help Trump get re-elected, you can blame the Democrats for another four years.
I suspect some of you Berniebots want Trump to get re-elected so he can make things so awful – maybe destroy the economy in a way that would make 2008 look like a minor blip – so that the millions of people hurt will clamor for Bernie-style socialism, at last. This is what some of the Nader people in 2000 wanted – they told me so directly. (Some of the people campaigning for him, in the same place where I was campaigning for Al Gore.)March 8, 2019 at 8:20 pm #41142
I am going to help pull it left. Centrists, the right do not have answers to rapidly growing, very ugly problems.
All day long, until those answers get traction, or better answers end up on the table.
Third Way, New Democrat economic policy does not deliver. Time for change
OF COURSE there are complaints. There should not even be any real surprise.
And you are right. There were quite a few people who did protest and help Trump. There were no voters too.
I voted Clinton. Won’t do that again, for similar politics. Or, let’s say I could be convinced, but it really better be good.
Yes, you are spot on. Those things happened.
Message was clear: leave us out, keep favoring big money and lose.
Nothing has changed, only the number of people willing to do that is greater now.
And once again, Fear, Blame and Shame directed at me does no good at all. No matter what I did, those things were gonna happen.
One person could have prevented it, and she made it clear she would not, told those people they were not needed, told the nation that moderate Republicans were going to get her the win, and then told people to vote their conscience.
You bet your ass I am pissed about that. Hubris. Her name is Hillary Clinton, who apparently did not even give the electorial college the attention it needed.
I think Harris will do exactly the same thing.
I did not want Trump. But there is not a famn thing to be done with toxic politics like that.
So we all get to make choices again. Either we get along and back people who are gonna change economic direction, or we are very likely to get Trump again.
That is the core message I brought here, and it is the one right now too.
Need another example?
Biden. He has good numbers now. When his baggage comes out, including a recent finger wag at millennials, Joe “no empathy for them” Biden will experience exactly what Clinton did.
Telling the people the party failed that it is somehow their fault, that they do not matter, are not needed, or they have a duty to vote for anyone doing that is madness, given the severe and growing economic trouble out there today.
I have said that since I saw Clinton start doing it, and I am not gonna stop saying it.
Bad politics = Trump
And those people who did that?
I do not blame them one bit. It is time we returned to better politics for every American. They have both cause and standing. They get to do that, can do that and will tell others why.
Again, there are too many Americans who are unwilling to vote for more of the same failed politics. I sure as hell am not going to pretend they are not there.
And I know better than to dictate! Nobody has to vote, nor vote as others tell them to vote.
I want the better politics myself. I have read nothing but excuses, fear, blame and shame here, with a minor exception or two.
The way this has gone? Maybe those people were right.
Win together, lose together. Best figure out which makes more sense.
I say we win, get behind better for everyone, and the super easy to explain example is Medicare For All, and go win.
Maybe you all are just too selfish, got yours, fuck the poors. Are you?March 8, 2019 at 9:16 pm #41143
Someday, Missing, maybe you’ll finally realize that being in the minority politically is not a path to meaningful change. Being in the minority means the other side gets to appoint judges who are on the bench for life. Trump winning has put the goals you wish to achieve years, even decades further from ever being achieved. But you can make that generations if you keep pushing your purity agenda to help Trump get re-elected.March 8, 2019 at 9:40 pm #41144
Andrew, the elected party majority is not that path either. It not that, even in a majority.
And that comes down to money.
Realistically, those goals are not ever going to be on the table, unless we put them there.
That is why progressives are doing what they are doing.
Selling me gets you nothing. I am not the guy who has control. Held the line, voted lesser of greater evils and that person did not do the work.
All I did was communicat whst I saw and urge a better choice. Doing that to avoid Trump.
And Clinton had that choice. Did not tske it, did not do the work and got us Trump. Hubris. Not good. I will not forgive that.
It is not purity at all. It is a change in direction, priority.
The work to get there remains, but those steps can get there.
Anyway, millons of people are gonna take a swing at this.
Could use help.
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