BERNIE launch events are big success!

This topic contains 54 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  missing_kskd 7 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 55 total)
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  • #41084

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    The campaign has all that was learned in 2016. Starting big, gonna grow huge.

    Brooklyn and Chicago. Both packed, ran without a hitch, and best coverage is the likes of Periscope, YouTube, Facebook.

    I want to highlight this:

    When we are in the White House, we will end Austerity.

    Those are the words of an exemplary public servant who understands what representative government means.

    So far, awesome, positive campaign. There is still plenty of time to join in. 😀

    Donald, carnival barker Trump has no chance. Will get steamrolled. Easy, all day long.

    #41085

    Andrew
    Participant

    “When we are in the White House, we will end Austerity.”

    Kamala Harris has promised “Medicare for All” and no more private insurance. Free college for everyone. And middle class tax cuts. And probably a few things I’ve left out that will cost even more money. I expect Bernie will promise even more.

    Where on earth are we supposed to get all this money to pay for everything? You can’t get nearly all you need just by hiking the tax on millionaires and corporations.

    Congress – both parties but especially Republicans – have helped dig us into a deep fiscal hole. We are now looking at $1 Trillion annual deficits going forward – WITHOUT any of these new expensive programs! (And just see what the deficit will be when the next recession hits.) Raising taxes on the wealthy is the absolute minimum required to stem the fiscal bleeding. It won’t begin to pay for a fraction of these new proposals. We’ve got huge existing liabilities for Social Security and Medicare coming up in the next few decades – we will be lucky to keep them afloat.

    The only other way to get more revenue is to raise taxes on everyone else again. Guess how THAT’S going to go over? Ask President Mondale – in 1984, he promised during the campaign that he would raise everyone’s taxes. He lost 49 states, probably a record that won’t be surpassed for a very long time.

    People loooovvve “Medicare for All”…until you tell them their taxes will have to go up to pay for it. Then support drops below 40%. People hate paying for stuff.

    “Those are the words of an exemplary public servant who understands what representative government means.”

    On the contrary, he has never understood what it means. He’s never joined a political party – which means he doesn’t want to work with anyone else. If he is somehow elected president, he will soon find out that the Congress he left behind isn’t going to just roll over for him and start passing his proposals. The Democrats won 41 House seats to take control of Congress last fall mostly with MODERATE candidates who will want to keep their seats in swing districts, not go along with a bunch of big spending proposals and tax increases on the middle class.

    #41086

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Kamila Harris is in no position to advance those policy ideas. Her source of funding won’t permit them. Owned. She’s running a Clinton 2.0 campaign. Likely same outcome, if she gets that far.

    The money comes from:

    A. Change in national priorities in how we spend.

    B. Savings, on health care we are paying more than we need to right now.

    C. The people at the top are gonna be taking less, and paying their fair share of taxes. The state of affairs right now is way out of control.

    D. Any reasonable public works projects will generate returns just like the Interstate Highway Project did. Those can fund other things quite nicely, and or service debt.

    F. Yeah, taxes will go up, but the change in health care costs will play out as a positive for nearly everyone.

    That “hole” won’t matter one bit, given we change our priorities.

    Of course he joined a party. He’s a Democrat right now, has been, and will be.

    The difference is he has his own base of power, which enables a campaign like this.

    There is a ton of work needing done in this nation too. Put people to work, pay them, take the tax revenue, and the returns from the work done, and service that debt. We get to do that kind of thing, have done it before, and we need to now.

    That’s the last I’ll say on all of this right now.

    Got no time to rehash the official, and failed party line.

    You sound like a conservative, frankly.

    #41089

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    You sound like a cult follower.

    There is zero chance any of the items Bernie is promising will be delivered by Congress.

    And when Bernie again fails to win the nomination, will you take your ball home and allow Trump another 4 years to stack the courts even more?

    #41090

    Andrew
    Participant

    I agree with Vitalogy. Missing, you seem to be imagining some Congress that does not exist. If the Berniecrats couldn’t get elected in large numbers in 2018, they never will.

    I wouldn’t say it’s impossible that Sanders will win the nomination, and after Trump’s election, I will no longer say it’s impossible for Sanders to get elected. What does seem extremely unlikely is a Congress so far left that they would pass any of this stuff.

    Even if the Democrats pull off a miracle in the 2020 Senate races and re-take the Senate, their new majority will include such center-right Democrats as Joe Manchin and Jon Tester. I would expect some sort of tax increase on the wealthy in the next Congress should a Democrat defeat Trump, but I wouldn’t expect these huge tax increases on the wealthy and corporations that the Berniebots seem to assume will be easy get passed, as soon as Bernie commands them to.

    #41091

    Andy Brown
    Participant

    Yes, it’s all about the Senate composition after 2020. Taking Andrew’s rejoinder to the next level, even if the Democrats maintain their majority in the House AND win a majority in the Senate, the latter will not be filibuster proof. What the future holds is uncertain, but the odds are that we end up with is just more dysfunction no matter which Democrat wins the nomination and probably the White House.

    As for Bernie, like I said, I’m glad he’s running as his ideas (that aren’t really his to begin with) have gotten some traction with the new younger House Democrats but anyone thinking that this will propel him to be the darling of key constituencies like the black vote are sadly mistaken. Bernie can’t win in the rust belt, or out west or in the south. In fact, he’s already trailing Joe Biden by 10 points and this early on, since Joe hasn’t even announced he’s running, it is a bad omen for the Bernie campaign. I expect Harris to catch up to and overtake Bernie before too long and with California voting early, Harris’s rise may be devastating to the entire field. We’ll see, though.

    Sadly, living in Oregon means the nominee will be all but decided by the time the primary happens here.

    Oh, and for you Herb the lurker, a special note of gloom: In Michigan (you can’t deny that this state is all important for drumpf assuming he isn’t in jail at the time of the next election), Biden, Harris, Warren and Sanders are all beating drumpf. The national polls last week are equally bad for drumpf as all of the above as well as O’Rourke and Booker are all pulling leads of various degrees over drumpf.

    The Republicans are out of gas. They’re running on fumes and it’s only going to get worse for drumpf. Today’s documents request by the House indicates they are willing to go further than Mueller in exposing the fraud, avarice, dysfunction and downright criminal activities within the current administration.

    Yes, Herb, you lurk and hope, but although you are entitled to your aberrant and misguided opinions it is not possible to change the following:

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/20/17031772/mueller-indictments-grand-jury

    #41094

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    That is what the effort is about.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/05/opinion/oppression-majority.html

    The remedy is to take power and mobilize millions of people.

    Or deal, and that has not played out very well at all.

    I am not going to deal. Simple as that.

    Got no reason to. Worst case, I can do nothing and get the current garbage. If I do anything at all, it might as well be to actually advance good policy ideas, take the discussion left. Not even far left. Just more left.

    Was Obama who actually got that idea started. OFA was awesome, and doing activism makes sense.

    Too bad he let all that die on the vine.

    You all would be quite surprised to learn how many OFA people are in this. They saw the same thing I did. Getting involved makes sense. Until it doesn’t, and that is about the time the guy you help elect basically forgets the people who got him elected.

    I am not doing that again. Why bother?

    And so here we are. The discussion will absolutely go left. And working from that place is a way better scenario than the one the party is clinging to right now.

    #41096

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    The beauty is no matter who gets the nomination. As long as they do not do what Clinton did, Trump will go down pretty easy.

    Framing that election narrative is a basic reason why the Sanders campaign matters.

    This is what actual incremental change looks like kids. This is also what actual democracy looks like too.

    I know it has been a while. Understandable.

    Exactly why the lame personal digs are laughable. I know better. Have seen much better out of all of you too.

    #41097

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    The latest NBC/WSJ poll shows that Democrats are still winning over independents and the middle of the electorate in the Trump Era.

    But there’s one exception: when the conversation turns to socialism — with just nine percent of independents and 13 percent of moderates viewing the term favorably in the poll. That’s compared with a plurality of indies (by 40 percent to 23 percent) and a majority of moderates (51 percent to 19 percent) viewing “capitalism” positively.

    What’s more, the MOST UNPOPULAR candidate quality in the NBC/WSJ poll — more unpopular than being a Muslim or being over the age of 75 — is being a socialist, with 74 percent of independents and 74 percent of moderates either very uncomfortable or having reservations with that quality.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/how-socialism-plays-poorly-middle-electorate-n978861

    Bernie is not capable of winning a national election.

    #41098

    Andrew
    Participant

    Missing: “I am not going to deal. Simple as that.

    Got no reason to. Worst case, I can do nothing and get the current garbage.”

    In other words – life under Trump isn’t so bad for you, so better to support Bernie and see another four years of Trump, right?

    In the real world, you have to “deal” if you actually want to get something done.

    #41099

    edselehr
    Participant

    “This is what actual incremental change looks like kids.”

    I can agree with that, Missing.

    And if you truly believed that, you’d agree that Bernie isn’t incremental. He’s a lunge to the left that the entirety of the electorate isn’t probably ready to make yet. The election of Trump I think proves it.

    So if you believe in incremental change, then be prepared to vote for incremental change – even if that change is more incremental than Bernie.

    #41100

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Bernie is incremental. There’s no way he’s going to get most of that stuff done. At least not in the first term. Foundations for it all have been laid down, and now there are a lot of people, groups, building on that.

    Good. That is what progressive politics do.

    Prior to all this, those increments needed to add up to a greater public good, and they did not and have not for decades, until very recently.

    Just about the time millions of people started to push matters.

    Again, good. That is what progressive politics are about. Got progressives in the party now, all the way down to the grassroots, local party level.

    Building up, just like people, ahem… said was right to do. I am part of that. Sure beats just talking about it. And that is what change looks like.

    And, there are progressives, solid economic lefties in elected to Congress now. More to come.

    Changing direction, such that we are building toward New Deal type legislation, public works, all that good stuff is why this all got started.

    Would not have had to get started had Congress and the President done their jobs. These movements do not just pop up for no reason.

    The election of Trump proves we are entirely in bounds, necessary. And there is no lurch to the left, unless one wants to argue the Dems are the nicer, more incompetent wing of the GOP.

    Wanna sell that? 😀

    #41101

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Andrew, the only way Trump gets elected is when too many of us fail to get the basic priorities right.

    If I were you, worried about Trump (and I am as life is not good for the majority of us), I suggest you get on board with good politics the majority of the nation wants to get behind.

    Basically, not doing that is selfish and is high risk. There is a very real possibility of loss due to voter protest and inaction.

    Our remedy here is clear, can’t miss vote for type policy. Better for all Americans, not just some of them.

    What do the people in the “some of them” group have to vote for otherwise?

    Answer, nothing.

    They used to have an answer, but general failure to actually see those increments go their way has accumulated. Trust in that is low, snd is low because the number of people falling out and away from doing OK has only grown.

    No matter what gets said, these are the choices:

    Vote major party.
    Vote other
    No vote.

    Whoever runs for the left needs to seek those votes, not expect them.

    And getting that message out is also what the campaign is about. Millions of people going for better for everyone is a solid basis for both a win, and a return to progress.

    I have said it a ton of times: fear, blame and shame are not effective GOTV tools.

    As for me personally?

    Laughable, and you all know that. I am frankly amazed you guys could read me for years, meet up in some cases and think somehow that shallow garbage would have an impact!

    It truly won’t. I know better. Wrote the damn book on that shit.

    Gotta run now. Back later. Maybe we can have a more meaningful conversation then.

    #41102

    Andrew
    Participant

    Missing: “If I were you, worried about Trump (and I am as life is not good for the majority of us), I suggest you get on board with good politics the majority of the nation wants to get behind.”

    I suggest we have a different opinion about what the “majority of the nation wants.” I am basing my opinion on the results of the recent elections when Democrats won control of the House by running moderate candidates in swing districts, not by running lefty-left candidates that you and Bernie would approve of. I think your opinion is based on your wishes, not on reality. You are projecting your own political beliefs as what the “nation” wants.

    But your candidates mostly fared poorly in the 2018 primaries, except in very liberal districts. Democrats won the House with moderate candidates.

    When your candidates actually start winning races in competitive districts, let us know.

    #41103

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    I think my opinion is based on what is now a ton of economic data, and numerous public polls run on all the topics for years now.

    Numbers do nothing but improve as conditions worsen.

    Finally, I base it on the changing demographics.

    Incoming voters trend left. And when one excludes 60+ cable news, where people are at looks quite different.

    I will potentially argue elections another day.

    Let’s just say electing “moderate” dems does more to strengthen the GOP than anything progressives are doing.

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