Avoiding fact based, data driven gun policy

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Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #5678
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/storyline/wp/2015/01/14/why-the-cdc-still-isnt-researching-gun-violence-despite-the-ban-being-lifted-two-years-ago/

    The NRA and members of Congress continue to block CDC research into gun violence.

    I hate this kind of shit. People want to be right, or they believe somehow, and that need to actualize it all trumps reality, causing other people unnecessary cost and risk exposure for nothing more than the need to feel good about it all.

    Fuck.

    #5681
    Deane Johnson
    Participant

    We know who the individuals are that are pulling the triggers. We can identify them from the endless news stories each time there is a violent act.

    What we need is a social study as to why there are so many violent acts these days.

    Making guns illegal won’t change a thing. There will still be plenty around for decades to come.

    BTW, I don’t like guns, have never fired one, have never owned one. But, making guns illegal is like putting things kids are not supposed to touch up higher so they can’t reach them, instead of teaching them what they are not supposed to touch.

    #5682
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    We think we know.

    We won’t actually understand anything without unfettered data and analysis.

    That may affirm gun rights and it may also affirm control.

    Nobody knows, and it is deplorable to block it to secure rights that may well not be warranted, particularly when there may well be reasonable solutions possible.

    I don’t give a shit either way, I just want it better than it is now.

    #5683
    Deane Johnson
    Participant

    I personally think it has to go back to personal values and personal responsibility, something that has really gone in the dumper in this country.

    We’re now several generations into bad parenting and we’re seeing the results.

    #5684
    Broadway
    Participant

    >>several generations into bad parenting
    Says it for me along with kicking God out of the public square and education institutions.

    #5687
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Deane and Broadway are wrong, as usual.

    Kicking god out of the public square has nothing to do anything. In fact, one could argue that god’s guns kill more than any other’s.

    And bad parenting is not to blame either. If anything, this generation’s parents are far superior than generations ago.

    The issue is ACCESS. In Deane’s era, nobody had access to guns or the means to buy one illegally. There were no access to violent video games, movies, internet beheadings, etc.

    Kids today grow up with access to so much more, and guns are a huge part of that access. They are glorified and idolized by adults, so why not kids?

    And let’s be realistic. It’s not all about the kids. Most gun data stats belong to adults.

    #5690
    Deane Johnson
    Participant

    Vitalogy, you may not have noticed, but kids become adults. That’s where adults originate.

    Violent video games, DRUGS, bad parenting, movies that show killing is as easy as eating ice cream all produce kids with no judgement as they become adults.

    Making guns illegal would be about as effective at fixing this as making drugs illegal has been.

    #5691
    skeptical
    Participant

    “Says it for me along with kicking God out of the public square and education institutions.”

    Let Darwin in your Churches and you’ll get invited back into the public square — EVERYONE on your side has to agree, including Ken Ham.

    Besides, there’s a LONG list of DEAD KIDS your side killed without your being in the public square.

    Since there is no fixing Stupid Jesus People, (you and Ken Ham) this post is actually a waste of my time.

    #5703
    Master of Disaster
    Participant

    If gun supporters truly had nothing to hide, they would not be opposed to facts and data.

    All the discussion seems to be around “expanded background checks” when, for example, we have the Reynolds HS shooting where the shooter didn’t obtain the gun via purchase, he took it from a family member who was a reservist:
    http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2014/06/oregon_school_shooting_how_wer.html

    No amount of background checks at a point of purchase would have stopped that from happening.

    Oh, looks like today we we have yet another one:
    http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2015/01/florida_mall_shooting_leaves_2.html

    #5704
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/defensive-gun-ownership-myth-114262.html?ml=m_pm#.VLwSg8vTnqD

    God was never in the public square and won’t ever be.

    That is a matter and fact of law in the USA.

    As for parenting, consider our history where parents worked reasonable hours and today where they largely dont.

    Access is huge. As that goes up, so does death.

    Sure, improved checks won’t stop it all, but it will improve things. So will education, better wages, and a lot of other things.

    Where we get real data and peer review, we know how much and can act.

    Blocking that to prop up lies, myths, and bravado as security policy only does harm, and it is profoundly self serving.

    #5705
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Seems we have a reservist who learned nothing from their time in the military.

    I was enlisted, and you can bet your ass I would not allow that to happen. Shame on them.

    Blood on their hand as far as I am concerned. Gun rights are fun to talk about, responsibility and education, not so much.

    That is the problem.

    People value the right more than their peers, loved ones and society.

    Fuck them. Hard, maybe with the loaded barrel.

    #5733
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    A long time friend of mine, who supported Obama in two elections, is a law abiding gun owner. He is married to an ex-military wife, who was married before. Because of the relationship between her ex, she and my friend have taught her kids plenty of gun safety over the years. They do live under a threat of violence because of the former husband. I totally support his right to own a gun due to those circumstances.

    But, as I told him, I will not be feared into the rhetoric of places like the NRA, who wheel way too much political power, and who somehow think more good guys with guns will keep us safer against the bad guys with guns. More guns into an already violent society is simply going to add to more violence.

    When I talk to my non-US friends, who live in societies with far less gun violence due to very strict gun control polices, they first offer me a place to come and live to be safe. Second, they just scratch their heads as they see the US actually debate something that would enhance more violence.

    For me it’s simple: We glorify and idolize guns in America. And we are paying a heavy price for the right to that ownership. Finding the right kind of gun control will be tough because of our love for guns. It’s like any addiction, one first needs to acknowledge the problem to be able to deal with it.

    #5734
    Deane Johnson
    Participant
    #5742
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Deane, I’ve never, ever, said guns should be “illegal”. That’s not possible, and, I don’t want to eliminate my own freedom to own a gun if I so choose. Which would be unlikely given my current situation.

    My stance is that I want the bar to be raised higher for gun owners. That means background checks, licensing and registering guns, liability insurance requirements, and higher taxes on guns and ammo. I want gun owners to be held responsible for the cost they cause society.

    If you want to own a gun, great, but let’s make the bar higher for ownership and put people in jail that can’t comply.

    However, the gun industry and it’s lobby (NRA) need more profits, so more guns and ammo must be sold for us to use against other Americans.

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