Ammon Bundy in custody

This topic contains 27 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by  missing_kskd 3 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 16 through 28 (of 28 total)
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  • #17599

    Amus
    Participant

    I fully expect that they did in fact video it.
    We may never see it, but a Jury will.

    #17601

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    So far, I’m happy with law enforcement on all levels. The Sheriff seems to be doing a good job, and the coordination between OSP and the FBI appears reasonable and effective.

    I don’t see much of a reason to make a competency argument.

    There are a lot of competing interests, and in many ways this appears to be an old fight, bastardized into some newer cause. (that link I put above may not be the whole story, but it does give a great sense on where the fault lines are)

    The only criticism I have boils down to the perception of white deference, and I’m by no means married to that, given all that has built up to events like this.

    These asses could do a lot of harm yet. Handling it in well considered stages seems like a good plan. I support doing that, particularly with the generous, “you are free to go” calls to inaction we have seen. There is a really good case for some of these people maybe getting sucked into something they would not be doing otherwise. Good on everyone for leaving that door open.

    Edit: Some say the slow, deliberate moves are weak, or recognition of unjust entitlement, etc… yeah, I can understand that. I’m not sure I disagree too. But that harm potential is high. Sacred, beautiful, delicate places really can be lost or harmed to a point of serious and un fixable regret. We need to give those people who live there some consideration for how they value all of it.

    As a person who really loves the more rural parts of Oregon, I do strongly identify with government land management and definitely support it being well funded. The slow decline of many basic efforts done by the likes of the CCC and Forest Service can be seen today. I’m saddened by that outcome, and see those efforts as high value. There is a natural as well as man made legacy rotting or being exploited away here.

    Not OK.

    Throughout all this, I just can’t seem to muster a whole lot of sympathy for the ranchers, who do have options and who do make a rough, but important and lucrative living.

    Some of my favorite places are on what is now private ranch land. In the past, it was not difficult to get permission, often for the mere asking and a promise to be a good steward while out there. A couple drinks in the right bar, at the right time…

    Leave no trace. While the ranchers do actually leave quite a mark! On their lands, sure. That is what they own them for, but on the public lands?

    I think they need to give others the same consideration they themselves value highly. (Says the guy who has gladly hauled trash put in years past, in return for a week of beauty…) And that same polite dialog us almost impossible today too. I find that regrettable. Throughout this, I feel something basic has been lost. Something distinctly rural.

    The idea of sparking this old conflict into some greater movement to overthrow “Uncle Sam” is so very deeply offensive… Maybe I will just leave it there for now and hope nobody else dies.

    #17621

    edselehr
    Participant

    Likely true, Amus. But if it exists, and if it exonerates the FBI in this killing, it seems it would be smart to release it sooner rather than later, just to squelch the martyrdom of Finicum before it starts.

    But…at the same time, video of an FBI agent gunning down one of these guys, no matter how justified, would only validate in their minds their perceived persecution.

    Tough call.

    #17622

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    No need to release it. The dead terrorist got what he had coming, albeit, much later than deserved. I’m glad he’s dead. One less asshole on this earth.

    Tamir Rice had a fake gun and 3 seconds, and was a 12 year old kid. These guys had AK’s and repeatedly threatened gun violence towards police and Federal agents and anyone who intervened.

    I would have preferred 100% of these terrorists were killed or arrested.

    #17627

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    They will most likely release it when they have the entire situation under control.

    Looks like the remaining peeps have dug in for the longer way home. I wonder how many actually do want to just leave at this point, but can’t.

    #17636

    Andy Brown
    Participant

    FBI videos would be evidence and the investigation is ongoing, but my guess is that when they are finally made public they will show the shooting was warranted.

    #17640

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Yup. That guy who got killed said as much, long before the event.

    #17646

    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Here’s the video, courtesy of the FBI.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/fbi_to_release_video_footage_o.html#incart_maj-story-1

    It appears to me this was a standard procedure high speed chase. Cops know driver is armed and dangerous. Car gets pulled over and then takes off into a high speed chase. Car drives into the snowbank after almost running into a police road block. Driver runs out and reaches for his waist, and properly gets gunned down in a split second as he should.

    And, if you watch at about the 1:40 mark, as the car veers into the snowbank, a cop appears to jump out and damn near get taken out. Unles it’s a vidio blip. I’ve watched 10 times but can’t quit tell what happened.

    #17665

    edselehr
    Participant

    Me, two days ago:

    But if it exists, and if it exonerates the FBI in this killing, it seems it would be smart to release it sooner rather than later, just to squelch the martyrdom of Finicum before it starts.

    But…at the same time, video of an FBI agent gunning down one of these guys, no matter how justified, would only validate in their minds their perceived persecution.

    Whaddaya know – both things happened!

    Amazing…I usually don’t call it this well. 🙂

    #17675

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Yeah, you nailed it! Well done!

    #17680

    LurkingGrendel
    Participant

    I’m often highly critical, and justifiably so, of law enforcement.

    That said, you cannot fault anyone in a local, state, or Federal uniform on this outcome.

    As we’ve discussed time and again in this thread, if anything one could argue law enforcement has been too cautious and careful.

    These idiots deserve everything they get. It’s unfortunate that anyone had to be shot, but these self styled “patriot” dim bulbs basically ensured that no other outcome was possible.

    Enjoy prison, assholes.

    #17693

    edselehr
    Participant

    Once the last of the holdouts leaves I’ll be interested to see what they find when the BLM takes back the refuge headquarters.

    If the occupiers have any sense of humor, the staffers should be finding hidden sex toys for years to come.

    #17699

    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Also, glitter.

    Once there is glitter, there is always glitter.

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