A progressive experiment

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 37 total)
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  • #43488
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Special election, aggressive progressive. Get your popcorn!

    #43490
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    No thanks. I want to defeat Trump, not lose again.

    #43493
    Vitalogy
    Participant

    Endorsement retracted. LOL.

    #43495
    lastday
    Participant

    Don’t even think about endorsing me! Lol.

    #43540
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    The non endorsement was to insulate the various campaigns. Specifically, Cenk has some earlier works, as he was moving to the left, that people are using today. He refused endorsements for three reasons:

    1. To avoid a bash on Bernie two-fer.

    2. To make it about ideas / policy

    3. Marginalize groups who are actively looking to take down progressives.

    As for defeating Trump, it’s people like this, Bernie, who have the mindshare.

    Biden? Snoozefest. He’s likely to forget Trump’s name at some point.

    Trump’s base has gotten bigger, whiter, angrier. Every last one of them will show up. Gladly.

    We need a rock star. Someone who can get 20k people to show up consistently. Someone with an excellent ground game. Someone backing popular policy to bring in inconsistent and no-voters.

    Bernie checks all those boxes. Nobody else on the Dem stage even comes close. Warren has some of that covered, but is no match for Trump as he will bash her daily on her many –too many failed virtue arguments. Arguments she flat out did not need to put out there. Her own fault. Trump will have a field day too. Again, her fault.

    As for this race?

    That guy is a very solid progressive. TYT has viewer numbers that are on par with MSNBC, FOX and CNN combined. The membership base is politically active, all about great policy, diverse.

    His name recognition, under 45 is already majority share. Founder of Justice Dems, who basically went on to put most of the squad in office, and who has a solid set of candidates looking to join them.

    Now, I posted it here for a specific reason. It’s not like any of you are actually interested in great policy, and or defeating Trump. You sure don’t show it, but I digress!

    😀 I like you anyway.

    No, I posted it as the test it is. People say a solid populist can’t win in purple districts. Well, that’s being put to the test. Cenk is one. Has some baggage too, so it’s not a slam dunk. And that baggage isn’t out of the ordinary. Hell, Warren created a fair amount just because she’s not smart about these things.

    What we’ve got here is straight up solid progressive, running on the Sanders platform, talking to ALL the voters in that district, messaging to them as “the voters in that district”, making it clear he’s about representing ALL the voters in that district.

    That’s against “the candidate the Democrats hand picked.” LOL, like prior to Cenk entering the race, the State party didn’t even give a fuck about those voters. Picked someone, fuck what the voters actually think, and expects those voters to vote, “because Trump, and the GOP.”

    (anyone living there should be super pissed too. Wealthy people, who won’t even do fund raisers there because the voters “are too poor, no 10K plate events possible”, have decided they know who best to represent those voters, who they also won’t give the time of day.)

    That message is going out in this race too. Let’s see how that plays.

    It’s a race you should watch. Lots to learn here, and some rhetoric posted here put to a test. Should be interesting, and to me, entertaining at the least.

    #43541
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Also, here is a long form interview with Taibbi. Good stuff about media, journalism and other related topics.

    He is on a Rolling Stone podcast called “Useful Idiots” that I cannot recommend highly enough.

    #43542
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Re:

    No thanks. I want to defeat Trump, not lose again.

    He’s not running against Trump, just like Bernie didn’t run against Trump, and mind you, didn’t lose his ass despite a couple billion…

    #43543
    Andrew
    Participant

    Missing: “Trump’s base has gotten bigger, whiter, angrier. Every last one of them will show up. Gladly.”

    And yet…Trump’s approval ratings are below his popular vote percentage from 2016. So how is it that his base has gotten bigger?

    If the Democratic base doesn’t show up at the polls in November 2020 because they don’t find the candidate inspiring enough, then we are doomed…because you’ll never find any one candidate who is pure enough for everyone. Millions of us DO NOT want to see Sanders at the nominee. Maybe we should just not show up in 2020 if he wins the nomination and then blame him and his followers for not doing the work needed to bring everyone out. Might be good to get a fringe candidate like Sanders out of our system so we have a shot at winning in 2024 with a pragmatist instead of lefty ideologue.

    #43544
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Go ahead, don’t show up.

    You prefer Trump over Bernie? LMAO! At least now we are having a far more honest conversation. That’s progress!

    Why Trump over Bernie? I can’t wait to hear (read) it.

    #43545
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Might be good to get a fringe candidate like Sanders out of our system so we have a shot at winning in 2024 with a pragmatist instead of lefty ideologue.

    There is absolutely nothing fringe about Sanders. Big money media won’t actually cover this election reasonably, which is why there is ANY discussion of fringe at all.

    Re: Trump

    Two candidates are posting up YUGE numbers at events, Trump is one of them.

    What? You going to trust the same people who said Clinton was a sure thing?

    Do you know why approval is not a condition for voting Trump?

    #43546
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    Re: Pure

    Well, this isn’t about purity. It’s about policy. Specifically, policy aimed at actually tipping things back toward the people after decades of anti-New Deal politics resulting in a majority in real economic trouble.

    You are right! Mere millions don’t want Sanders as POTUS. Would cost them some of their status and income.

    And mere millions aren’t going to have another neo-liberal either.

    While most of the population just wants functional politics and for their lives to improve. Sanders, by far, has the most solid policy aimed right at making that happen.

    Maybe we do get Trump.

    Fine. I’m (and this is true for progressives in general) calling your bluff.

    Here’s why:

    My reasons for Sanders will resonate with far more of the nation than yours against him will. And I’m speaking in general terms here, not personal ones Andrew. Just easier than a short paragraph referencing the groups.

    Let’s just say your “millions” group doesn’t turn out. (could be the millions more new and infrequent voters progressives are working to turn out win it anyway)

    The reasons for “blame” won’t resonate as well as the ones for Clinton did.

    She actually made really bad choices, she actually did shit on a huge fraction of her base she expected to vote for her, and she actually did hide from the press, lie about the work Bernie did, lied about the harm Bernie did, and is very widely disliked. This is why I basically laughed you all off as you tried to make it stick over and over and over. She sucked, didn’t give a fuck, lost. I know that, and you all down deep know that, but are just butthurt about it, because Trump. (and Trump is a horror show, don’t blame you for that butthurt, but I do not recognize the other aspects of that butthurt, because she sucked, didn’t give a fuck, still doesn’t, and lost)

    None of that will be true for Sanders, and that’s going to make “those millions” look like selfish fucks. That’s no joke. We’ve got a few real crisis:

    Health care cost escalation, issue #1
    Living wages, issue #2
    College debt, issue #3 with younger voters
    Planet, issue #3 with many voters

    Resolving those things is going to cost us money. Everyone knows it. We can either scale back the military, or we can all pay a little more, or some combination of those things.

    Trying to say, “Bernie didn’t do the work” will be absolutely laughable! He’s done more work, including for Clinton, than anyone.

    Game on. Go right ahead. Do it.

    Dare you.

    I stand ready to laugh my ass off.

    #43548
    Andrew
    Participant

    Missing: “Go ahead, don’t show up.

    You prefer Trump over Bernie? LMAO! At least now we are having a far more honest conversation. That’s progress!

    Why Trump over Bernie? I can’t wait to hear (read) it.”

    Because too many people are suffering economically in this country – they are not getting ahead. Until the Democratic party gets the message that Sanders and socialism are not the answer – that getting back to its roots as a party of worker is the way back to winning elections, there’s no point in voting for someone like Sanders. Send the Democratic Party a message: back to your roots.

    #43549
    missing_kskd
    Participant

    How exactly is being the party of the worker in conflict with more appropriate social programs?

    Oh do tell, what does “being the party of the worker” actually mean in your mind?

    And how does doing that “get them ahead?”

    #43551
    Chris_Taylor
    Participant

    If Sanders wins the nomination, I will vote for him.

    However, I still haven’t made up my mind on any of the Dems. Plus, the way GOP members in local state politics are trying their hardest to keep left leaning voters from getting to the polls, particularly those of color, and getting away with it, is so disheartening.

    #43553
    radiogeek
    Participant

    I’ll be voting for The Democratic Candidate.

    Meanwhile, Bernie is not on the top of my list. While I agree with a lot of his policy objectives, having him as POTUS would be in the end as unstable for progressive values as having Trump has been for conservative values. The only lasting legacy will the the court appointments, and if the Senate doesn’t go back to Dem control it won’t matter which Dem gets the White House, as McConjob will put the rules back to osbstruction of nominees.

    Congress is the only long term, stable way to make change. Trump overturned Obama’s executive orders with his. Bernie could overturn Trump’s executive orders as well. Then we have an unstable governance where Congress continues to refuse to govern, and alternating executives go back and forth being totally ineffective in the long term, and the USA suffers from lack of ability to plan for the future in a predictable, stable way.

    Bernie can do more good long term in the Senate than in the White House. If he’s the candidate, ok. But what is needed is a long term goal supported by legislation, not by executive orders.

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