May 1, 2020 at 9:29 pm #46088Steve NaganumaParticipant
Including the first four hours of MTV in 1981.
[video src="https://archive.org/details/mtv-80s-vhs-full-recording-collection/1981.08.01+-+MTV+First+Four+Hours+-+12am+Saturday+August+1st%2C+1981.mp4" /]
Not sure why the link is not displaying correctly. You want the address between the two quote symbols.May 1, 2020 at 10:03 pm #46091paulwalkerParticipant
I have a video tape of early MTV that is quite interesting, but the quality is faltering. Don’t know how to maintain the recording…could transfer to digital if I had the right equipment. Not sure how to go about…May 2, 2020 at 12:35 am #46094
Find a DV camera with analog audio/video input jacks. Play your tape on your VHS player into the camera using those inputs instead of the lens capture and make a digital recording on the camera media (DV tape or SIM card). Then hook the camera to your PC (USB2 or faster) and import it into your favorite media creation app and then you can save it, edit, caption and export it in any format said app supports. There are plenty of free apps as long as you have the original tape and a player to play it and the camera with analog inputs. I did a ton of this to transfer my oldest videos from Hi8 to DV and then to DVD or .mov for youtube.May 2, 2020 at 12:55 pm #46097
Never encode to proprietary formats like MOV (Quickslime) or WMV/ASX (Winblows Media) if preservation and compatibility are the objective. Use industry-standard codecs like MPEG2/MP2 (or VOB) or H264/AAC.
And please for the love of god don’t deinterlace or use audio noise reduction! So many people have this compulsive need to do that and the results are usually dreadful. Let the end user enable DI or NR themselves in their player software if they feel like it.May 2, 2020 at 2:01 pm #46098lastdayParticipant
And don’t crop the video to make it fill a 16:9 screen! Leave it in the original 4:3 aspect ratio.May 2, 2020 at 6:38 pm #46099
I have been recording video tapes since 76/77 and I still have them. Beta from the 70s to the 90s, then VHS from the 90s to early 2000’s, then to DVD. I have several Beta/VHS machines and at times I dub them over to DVD with the Toshiba. I recently found another Toshiba DVD recorder with a built in HDD for editing. When tapes are sitting on the shelf for decades, it is best to run them back & forth fast forward and rewind a few times. The old tape can stick together. Every so often I will check one out and I amazed how well many have held together through the years. Some of the important ones I have dubbed to DVD for a back up. A good project for staying in….May 2, 2020 at 7:33 pm #46100Randy_in_EugeneParticipant
An irony is the VHS tapes may age better than home-burned DVDs.May 2, 2020 at 11:52 pm #46101
Depending on the the home burned DVD. Some media is better than others. Verbatim is my choice and have had excellent results. DVD’s going back 16 years recorded on good media still play well. Some burners are better than others too. I had that Lite On unit in 2003 that was horrible. Any DVD recorded on the Lite On, I almost immediately I had to copy it on the computer to get a good copy that would last. Once the Lite On sat on the shelf for a year, it was glitch-city. The computer copy lasted without issues. Once I bought a Pioneer in 2004, I finally got a good burner with the Pioneer. Once that died, I bought Toshiba and that was in 2006 and it still works great. Since I had bad luck in the past I bought a backup for the Toshiba and I still have both! Good media and good burners do well. Now I have no idea if the DVD’s will last as long as the Beta/VHS tapes, as I will probably not another 40 years….May 3, 2020 at 10:27 am #46103
Lite-on and LG (same thing IIRC) are the ultimate “you-get-what-you-pay-for” throwaway shit drives. They’re cheap and available in bulk, which is why OEMs like Dell love them. Toshiba-Samsung/TSST (and their offshoots like Mad Dog) drives are good but they seem to develop this weird mechanical issue after a while where the tray eject mechanism doesn’t engage right away. It just clicks, like the spindle clamp is disengaging then engaging again, but never ejects. You have to keep hitting the eject button several times before it finally will. This does not appear to affect the read/write capabilities of the drive but it is annoying.
Azo disks are probably the best choice if you’re going to use a dye-track disk. Some of the more recent better-quality cyanine disks can only be expected to last maybe 20-30 years at best before they begin to fade.
M-disk is really the best choice overall. There’s really no practical reason to use conventional dye-based media for archiving other than their low cost (M-disks are still quite expensive especially in quantity). I’ve found M to be more likely to read correctly in older DVD-video hardware than dye because they’re more closely related, physically, to a manufactured disk. You will need to upgrade your recording drive if your current hardware doesn’t support it. Although expensive, the Pioneer BDR2209 Blue Ray XL drive works well and does support writing to M even though the packaging and drive faceplate do not indicate otherwise.
A good plan would be to first export your finished project to M (be redundant, no fewer than 3 redundant copies! The more reduntant the better since the Department of Redundancy Department is your friend) and those disks would be your masters, then strike your distribution prints (your daily-use copies) on less-costly dye disks. When the time comes in future to strike new copies, pull out your lab-master M disk and do a byte-per-byte ISO rip of it then write the ISO file to a new dye disk. There is usually no need to reencode and reauthor the disk, which wastes time and introduces generational quality loss; ISO rip-and-write is much faster.
Bottom line: as with tape, DON’T USE CHEAP DISKS OR DRIVES!May 3, 2020 at 2:16 pm #46106
“Once I bought a Pioneer in 2004, I finally got a good burner with the Pioneer.”
When the price of the original Pioneer DVD burners dropped from $16,000 to something more sane (close to $5k as a standalone external), and Apple put them in the 2001 G4 Quicksilver towers at a price even more reasonable than Pioneer would sell them at (which included much better software to use with them), the burn your own DVD world expanded quite a bit. If you liked those Pioneer drives, you weren’t alone. I built some pretty complicated DVDs with that drive using FCP and DVDP and they still play great today some 19 years later. The Quicksilver tower with the drive and the software cost me $3900, but doing it on the PC side would have cost me IIRC $4200 to Pioneer for the drive and burning software, add a reasonable PC tower, and a video editing suite (few available back then). Media was quite speedy back then, too. It took about 2 more years before the floodgates opened for drives and cheap software, but from a business standpoint it was already too late. Within another 1 – 2 years, you could upload your video online and have DVDs made without any need for the equipment, expertise, or lots of time. BTW, that tower of mine still boots and runs just fine and the burner probably works but I haven’t tried to burn anything in it for years. As the years went buy, the software and media costs went way down, with a lot of free and super inexpensive solutions out there now. Optical discs, cheap as they have become, are fading. Kids are collecting vinyl (many don’t play them, they stream for that) for music and streaming all their movies. I have a massive CD collection and have many friends with gargantuan DVD collections, so the need for players (stand alone and pc internal/external) will continue for at least another 20 years. Hard drives with moving parts probably will disappear even sooner than that. 5 or 10 years if that long. It depends on the expense of chips and future fab technologies.
A good burner with good media will make a disc that will last longer but replicated titles you buy OTC will also last quite a while. The processes are radically different as no signal alluded to. Generally the failure of discs of either origin is driven by weak storage regimens and environmental exposure. Remember the industry is not driven by tech types like us, it is driven by content creators and consumers. Engineers get caught in the middle. I’m sure you’ve heard the old adage we can design and build a tire that will last forever, but that would put us out of business. The same goes for media titles.
Popular titles in the big biz part of the industry have to constantly generate new dye discs but that isn’t unlike an old printing press which only put out good prints until the mechanical wear became noticeable or vinyl mastering, which after so many pressings had to be replaced as well. Didn’t those of us that spun records for a living learn that after lots of plays in an oft rough environment of smoke, no A/C, fingerprints and dust the most popular albums simply had to be replaced. People today don’t want to keep rebuying their favorite media like previous generations generally did (yep, I mean those that had their favorite title first on 8 track, then vinyl, then CD, etc. etc.). Those kids are part of what keeps the streaming services in business.
Getting back to archiving, before you worry about copies of anything make sure you make that first playback of some old media you home created is also being fed to some kind of recordable scenario. I’ve been through this both as a consumer and at the broadcast level. KATU lost tens of thousands of hours of news archives because they didn’t listen to us engineers about the lifespan of archived tape media. Sometimes you might not even get that first playback to go smoothly, and many times I’ve seen that first playback be the only one you get. Even optical drives lose their laser focus through wear (hours). I have some drives that only play optical discs, but won’t record on any media. That starts when the drive becomes picky about which blank disc it will burn to and which ones it won’t, wasting your time since it won’t screw up until it’s almost done. So you try a different brand and even if that works, it delays the inevitable write ability failure that’s forthcoming.
Although I’ve had success with several brands of discs over the years (Maxell, TDK, Sony) these days I stick to Verbatim. Reasonably priced, excellent performance, and still available. I’d avoid cheap discs with unknown branding, usually offered for those that don’t want to pay the price for the Verbatim or whatever else you can find. I’m not even sure who else makes them anymore.May 3, 2020 at 5:57 pm #46107
spendy not “speedy” (thank you auto mistake)May 3, 2020 at 6:24 pm #46108
Verbatim (Mitsubishi) and That’s (Taiyo Yuden). The latter are difficult if not impossible to find in North American stores since TY don’t have any direct distribution channels here but they’re all over Amazon and in retail stores just about everywhere else in the world. They are very top of the line as such things go (though actually not terribly expensive, but I’ve only used their CD-R and DVD+R products so I couldn’t tell you firsthand how much their Blue Ray products run) and worth it if you need to use dye-track disks. I’ve used them for years and never had an issue except for people questioning the odd brand name and mistaking them for some cheap-shit Chinese knockoff.
TY OEM disks (or, at least they used to) for Panasonic, Fuji, Samsung, Maxell and maybe three or four others I’m forgetting (TDK?) that are commonly available in America. If you want to be guaranteed that you’re getting TYs then get “That’s” (yes, that really is their brand name) since it is their own brand and they have full control of their manufacture.
There’s another thing. Use DVD+R (plus-R) for mastering/archiving and distribution, not DVD-R (dash-R). Long technical discussion short, +R incorporates more advanced and reliable error correction and sector addressing technology that the older DVD-R format lacks. They’re much more robust. There’s really not much compelling reason to use -R these days except maybe to support extremely old recorder drives that predate the introduction of +R technology (assuming any are even still functional as of 2020).May 3, 2020 at 7:47 pm #46109lastdayParticipant
Around 1993 I was employed by a software game developer. We got the first model of CD burner drive Sony made. It cost $10K, special developer price. It was an external box that came with a proprietary SCSI adapter and cable and software It burned CDs at 1x speed. The host system could not be running any other app at the same time as a burn. The drive would get very hot after burning a CD and not work againuntil allowed to cool down a while. This Sony was basically a beta test unit not ready for production.
When the time came to get a DVD burner, it was a Pioneer. Those worked very well. I’ve always like Pioneer Gear. They have a good history of building good stuff. The Pioneer plasma TV blew its competitors like Samsung out of the water.May 4, 2020 at 12:07 am #46111
As far as cheap disc’s, the Verbatim have great reviews and I have not never had any issues with them (No Coasters). I am 71 years old and I don’t really care if they deteriorate after I go. :-). With over 10,000 discs I have recorded through the years, making new masters at this time….Well…I think you understand. The undertaking would be impossible. Since I do have the budget, I cannot afford to go with expensive burners, I went with something I could afford and I have had great luck. I have 6 Toshiba’s. three DVD Recorders, two dual decks, and recently bought a good Toshiba recorder with an HDD. Never had any trouble with them. I am still using one built in 2004 and another in 2006. They have really lasted. The Lite On was my first one and it was junk. One interesting thing I accidentally found out about the Lite On, that Copy Guard had no effect on it and it even recorded CD’s. It burned CD’s better than DVD’s. The burn lasted.
Thanks for the insight and advice. Much appreciated.May 4, 2020 at 12:23 am #46112
Great advice. Thank you. I started out with Maxell (Gold discs, nice looking but poor burns), moved to TDK until those were continued, then moved to Sony. Now I use Verbatim. Back in the Beta Video Tape days as a kid, I bought a lot of garbage blanks, PB Magnetics for one. I have regretted that, but at the time I had little knowledge. The important Beta tapes I have dubbed a lot of them over to DVD. The dropout on the old junk tapes was something else. So I stuck with Sony Betamax tapes when I could afford them, but at $20 a tape in the 70s, that is like $50 today.
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