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Where does the liberal confidence in an Obama win come from?

(96 posts)
  • Started 2 years ago by Deane Johnson
  • Latest reply from NoParty

  1. Andy_brown

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    Posts: 6,426

    "Really? I thought it was intentional."

    Only towards you, ace.

    Posted on February 1, 2012 - 06:19 PM #
  2. motozak3

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    Posts: 4,469

    "That's the problem with my detractors. They hate facts, all facts, especially when they are not synchronous with their opinions."

    Funny how that works, innit?

    You yourself consistently demonstrate the exact same thing, particularly when other peoples' stated facts are contrary to what seems to exist in your personal vacuum. The last few posts, for instance.

    Pot, meet kettle.

    Posted on February 1, 2012 - 07:56 PM #
  3. skeptical

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    I think Deane's the one doing the tags.

    Posted on February 1, 2012 - 08:15 PM #
  4. Skybill9

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    Tag you're it!

    Posted on February 1, 2012 - 08:32 PM #
  5. Andy_brown

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    I think Zak has his opinions and facts mixed up. We can all have different opinions,
    but there is only one set of accurate facts.

    Andrew said: "So the money advantage shouldn't be a factor for Romney against Obama."

    That's the key. The media wants to keep that money flowing, so they will fill the medium with hot button stories and commission hot button polling questions and try and keep the GOP primary contested as long as the PACS are forking out those bucks for commercials.

    As far as the Newt money goes, so remains the landscape. The smoother the segue into the Obama money, the happier the media is. After all, they have shareholders they are responsible to.

    Posted on February 1, 2012 - 08:34 PM #
  6. The question Deane asked has been answered by a number of people.

    I refained from pointing out that poll he attached actually had nothing what so ever to do with the conclusion he was attempting to illustrate but am glad to read a couple of other people picked that up as well.

    I also find it somewhat puzzling that outlining with supportive detail why I (or someone else) may have arrived at the conclusion President Obama is more likely than not to win narrow re-election this November is instantly distorted by the usual suspects into a predictive landslide.

    If you're going to use a single poll to make an illustrative point perhaps it might be a good idea to utilize one that's actually based upon a head to head candidate comparison?

    For example:

    National (Rasmussen) Obama d. Romney (47-43) Obama d. Gingrinch (50-38)

    That's from today.

    Any further questions why the "liberals" are feeling a tad more confident than the political oppostion at the moment?

    And still waiting to hear some fervent predictions of a Mittens victory from ya'll. And F&B, the conservative media is doing a perfectly fine and effective job of shredding both Mittens and Newt; particularly the latter as the GOP establishment know he's general election arsenic. As I've shared with you for months now and you continue to ignore.

    P.S. I've never assigned a "tag" to anyone or anything on this site.

    Posted on February 1, 2012 - 09:12 PM #
  7. NoParty

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    So where is DODGEr today when Deane has started 36 threads and trolled his way into the PDXRadio messageboard record books?

    Posted on February 1, 2012 - 09:12 PM #
  8. Uncle Mort

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    "...When conservatives want to be a little less overt about their disdain for the notion of equality, they will say that, of course they believe in equality of opportunity, they just oppose equality of results. Besides being a ridiculous straw man (no one I have ever met has argued for absolute "equality of results,” or the idea that it isn't fine for people to get rewarded when they build and sell great products), they almost always immediately undercut their own argument by proposing cuts in student grants and loans, public education, Head Start and child health programs that get kids off to a better start in life. They are all for equality, they say, but never want to extend equal protections under the law to new classes of people being discriminated against. They support equality but don’t care if people with illnesses or pre-existing conditions can’t get health care coverage. They are for equal rights under the law but support eliminating funding for legal services, and allowing bankers who commit financial fraud to skate by without ever being investigated. They think equality is wonderful, but are indignant that progressives ask that millionaires and billionaires pay at least as high a tax rate as their secretaries..."

    Crooks and Liars

    Posted on February 1, 2012 - 09:12 PM #
  9. NoParty

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    GD CONers!!!

    DUMP #1

    And it's after noon!

    FUCK!!!

    Posted on February 1, 2012 - 09:14 PM #
  10. In light of the on-going kerfluffle and Deane's continuing denial of reality, this is far too entertaning not to post again:

    National (Rasmussen) Obama d. Romney (47-43) Obama d. Gingrinch (50-38)

    That's from today.

    Posted on February 1, 2012 - 09:18 PM #
  11. NoParty

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    Deane's continuing denial of reality,

    LMAO!!!!

    SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO true!

    Posted on February 1, 2012 - 09:45 PM #
  12. And nothing from anyone with a simple acknowledgement they completely, though honestly, misread and misinterpreted that "poll" that Deane linked. It does NOT say what many of you apparently believe it does.

    That while simultaneously failing to acknowledge in any fashion an actual poll showing a prospective match-up proves exactly the opposite of what they had alleged. I even went for Rasmussen for Fair and Balanced. You should see the other ones I didn’t bother posting for you.

    And no, I do not believe a poll of any kind this far out from November is any kind of actual predictor of a final outcome. But then again, I’m not the cornflake who made the incredibly dubious assertions that began this ignorance marathon.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 07:37 AM #
  13. NoParty

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    I’m not the cornflake who made the incredibly dubious assertions that began this ignorance marathon.

    That would be Deane again....

    LMFAO!

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 09:25 AM #
  14. Andrew

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    Obama tops Romney 49-42 in a new PPP poll...of OHIO voters:

    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/02/ohio-poll-obama-moves-ahead-as-romney-stumbles.php

    While it's still early, a poll of a swing state is more meaningful than an approval rating. Sorry, Deane...

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 10:51 AM #
  15. missing_kskd

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    After all the anti-labor work the Repuglicans did in states like Ohio, I am eager to see how Romney chooses to distance him from the party overall.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 11:09 AM #
  16. Sorry but the coddled and overpaid state workers in OH are not a fair representation of "labor," and striving for fairness to the labor who PAYS them so well is PRO-labor.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 11:22 AM #
  17. Andrew

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    Yes, F&B, I know you hate those teachers, police officers, and firefighters, etc. but they do a public service and deserve to be well compensated.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 11:31 AM #
  18. missing_kskd

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    Let's just make it equally shitty for everyone! Yeah!

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 11:32 AM #
  19. Amus

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    They need to join in to the race to the bottom, just like everybody else.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 11:33 AM #
  20. I'm not taking it for granted that Obama will win. But I feel confident about that outcome.

    As far as Deane's question as to why, I'll answer with "Because I think he is better than any of the candidates that are running."

    Simple, straight forward answer. But I'm not gonna NOT vote. It's never in the bag.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 11:51 AM #
  21. Andrew

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    The more interesting question this fall will be control of Congress, I think. Democrats could re-take the House, but they might also wind up losing the Senate...or both, which would be quite unique indeed.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 11:55 AM #
  22. missing_kskd

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    Yes, not much talk of that yet.

    There should be a bunch of challengers eager to boot out one party or the other. Obama appears willing to run against Congress too.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 11:59 AM #
  23. Andy_brown

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    "The more interesting question this fall will be control of Congress, I think. Democrats could re-take the House, but they might also wind up losing the Senate...or both, which would be quite unique indeed."

    It is likely that even if the GOP takes the Senate, they won't have 60 votes to control cloture.

    I'd roughly estimate the odds of the Democrats surpassing a 60 vote majority are also very slim.

    Four more years of stalemate no matter who wins the Presidency.

    I'd love to see Dems take the house, but even there they have a lot of ground to make up after the last round of losses. A lot of people are awful mad about the T-Party newbies that have not played ball with mainstream Republicans, but whether or not they are replaced by Dems or other GOP'ers remains to be seen, and frankly that will not be clear for another 4 or 5 months.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 12:52 PM #
  24. Andrew

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    Obama mentioned filibuster reform in his recent State of the Union address. I don't recall him so prominently calling for it. Perhaps it will become more of a campaign issue this fall. I think the public is so pissed at Congress that filibuster reform now might go over.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 01:01 PM #
  25. Andy_brown

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    I don't think either party wants to give up a mechanism that might be their only power tool as a minority. On the other hand, the public's anger with a dysfunctional government seems bipartisan, so maybe your right.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 01:10 PM #
  26. Notalent

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    I for one prefer a disfunctional government that has plenty of options to thwart the opposing party.

    And that goes for both sides of the aisle.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 01:57 PM #
  27. edust1958

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    I consider myself to be a independent voter... In all of the elections that I have voted, I have always considered both the candidates and the policy positions that are attached to the candidate by the sponsoring political party. Since returning to the U.S. in 1988, I have not been able to bring myself to vote for a candidate carrying the Republican standard... and I am a strong supporter of conservative fiscal policy... but I am also a believer that government does not belong in our bedrooms or living rooms... the Republicans are not conservative enough fiscally for me to get past their willingness to try to enforce some "moral code"...(that they somehow aren't willing to apply to themselves)...

    I haven't decided on who I would support for the next president but none of the people trying to win the Republican nomination have impressed me to garner my support...

    I am very curious if the "America Elects" drive is going to develop a reasonable third-party candidate.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 02:04 PM #
  28. I would support an abolition of the Senate filibuster.

    That’s what President Obama mentioned during the SOU. I.e. You should not have to provide a super majority to pass anything in the U.S. Senate.

    I’m completely non-partisan regarding that stance. I feel the same should be true regardless of the political party that happens to hold The White House or a simple majority in either House of Congress.

    With as much respect as I can muster, No-Talent, welcoming completely partisan obstructionism serves no-one. That particular strain of modern nihilism while extraordinarily popular among those whom seek to discredit the very role of Federal governance itself, does not enjoy widespread public support and a reasonable case could be made it’s not at all in the common good. Not even for you.

    The minority party has a role; but keeping ANY business at all from being accomplished to the detriment of the nation should be out of bounds. Abolishing the Senate filibuster is not a cure-all but would be a good, common sense, first step.

    You can count on my holding the exact same opinion on the matter if and when there happens to be a Republican President and/or Republican Senate majority again.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 02:23 PM #
  29. And Deane still posted a poll he claimed illustrated something that it completely did not.

    Here's the one D, F&B, and some others seem to keep missing.

    National (Rasmussen) Obama d. Romney (47-43) Obama d. Gingrinch (50-38)

    That's from yesterday.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 02:28 PM #
  30. I didn't say anything about this poll. I'm dubious about a poll based on an approval rating.

    I look at the Rasmussen polls regularly, but I thought he was supposed to be in the tank for the Republicans and that his polling isn't credible.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 02:35 PM #
  31. Andrew

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    What about the PPP poll for Ohio? If Obama can win Ohio, Michigan, and Florida, the election is over. It's still to early to make such a prediction for November - but the point is, the PPP poll shows Obama beating Romney there easily, despite his Ohio approval rating still under 50%. In other words, what Deane posted doesn't mean much.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 02:40 PM #
  32. Notalent

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    wait till Romneys smear machine turn on Obama instead of Newt, Then we'll have a good poll.

    Right now these polls reflect the negative primary campagne which the media is making hay with.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 03:22 PM #
  33. It generally is in the tank for the Republicans, Fair and Balanced. And when even that one, which is the one you think is just awesome-saunce, shows a result exactly the opposite as what has been alleged in the thread it perfectly underscored the larger point.

    And I already stated that, No Talent. Scroll up. Check it out.

    Actually I'll save you the trouble:

    "And nothing from anyone with a simple acknowledgement they completely, though honestly, misread and misinterpreted that "poll" that Deane linked. It does NOT say what many of you apparently believe it does.

    That while simultaneously failing to acknowledge in any fashion an actual poll showing a prospective match-up proves exactly the opposite of what they had alleged. I even went for Rasmussen for Fair and Balanced. You should see the other ones I didn’t bother posting for you.

    And no, I do not believe a poll of any kind this far out from November is any kind of actual predictor of a final outcome. But then again, I’m not the cornflake who made the incredibly dubious assertions that began this ignorance marathon".

    I'm beginning to suspect certain folks don't actually read much less comprehend a great deal of what they're supposedly responding to.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 04:32 PM #
  34. Skybill9

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    " but I am also a believer that government does not belong in our bedrooms or living rooms..."

    Or in our cars (seatbelt laws)
    Or in our healthcare insurance choice
    Or in our diet (banning trans fats as they did in NY)
    Or in our retirement funding (Socialist Insecurity)

    The list could go on and on.

    It's fine for them to say;

    "Hey people, trans fats are bad for you. It's better not to eat them" or

    "Seatbelts save lives, you really should wear them" or

    "We are going to open up Medicare and if you want to pay in, it might be cheaper that the insurance you currently have due to economy of scale" or

    "Here is the government sponsored retirement fund. If you want to pay in you can invest it however you want"

    They shouldn't be forcing their crap on us.

    There are some things that must be law but they need to cut way back on their intrusions into our lives.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 06:05 PM #
  35. duxrule

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    I heard some conservatard on Lardy's show talking about how everything would be better if we just did away with the Commerce Clause (article 1, section 8). So much for the sanctity of the Constitution.

    Posted on February 2, 2012 - 06:31 PM #
  36. duxrule

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    "Where does all of this conservative confidence that Obama is going to lose come from?"

    Is Obama Back? New Poll Puts Him Ahead of Romney, Gingrich

    resident Barack Obama leads both GOP front-runner Mitt Romney and former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich in a hypothetical general election matchup, according to the latest Washington Post/ABC poll. Fifty-two percent of voters surveyed chose Obama over Romney's 43 percent. Obama has a 15-point advantage over Gingrich.

    Even better news for Obama was the jump in his approval rating. Fifty percent of the survey's participants approve of Obama's overall performance, the highest rating the president has received since the U.S. government killed Osama bin Laden in early May. Forty-six percent, however, disapprove of Obama.
    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/obama-back-poll-puts-him-ahead-romney-gingrich-163137829.html

    Posted on February 6, 2012 - 09:48 AM #
  37. NoParty

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    There are some things that must be law but they need to cut way back on their intrusions into our lives.

    I keep saying that about the Religious RIGHT in America.

    Posted on February 6, 2012 - 10:58 AM #
  38. Notalent

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    Here is what Al Qaeda think of Obama: Quote from Abu Zubaydah al Lubnani, a Lebanese al Qaeda operative:

    "Everyone knows that the war is about to end with a great defeat to NATO; the black slave [Note: Referring to US President Barack Obama] announced their intention to completely withdraw from Afghanistan in 2014-1435," he said. "These planes [the drones] were introduced into duty actually in the war against the mujahideen in the past two years, and before that, during eight years, the mujahideen were able, praise be to Allah, to harm the Americans badly. They took the bait and lost the war, and now they are in the overtime and the time is in our favor, praise be to Allah..."

    Just so you know, they don't buy the Obama spin machine on the battlefield. No wonder losing the war is scheduled for 2014 after the election.

    Read more: http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2012/02/al_qaeda_still_stand.php#ixzz1lpLInehR

    Posted on February 8, 2012 - 02:21 PM #
  39. Uncle Mort

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    What it is, you're buying into the Al Qaeda spin machine. You're quoting an internal pep memo from a low level op like it's real news. It's propaganda at best and you pass the crap around to put lipstick on the war pig and piss on the prez who had to clean up after the bush bungle.

    Posted on February 8, 2012 - 05:12 PM #
  40. Notalent

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    Perception is reality Mort. Especially to religious fanatic barbarians with modern toys of war.

    I'm not saying I'm buying into it at all. Just saying how they view Obama and how walking away from Afghanistan looks to them.

    If we are going to play on the world stage then we must go there prepared to win, not cower and run. Even if there is a contingent at home that is "tired" of it.

    Leaving al Qaeda functioning in any manner is the bungle.

    I totally get that you are anti war, but what is done is done.

    Our president willingly makes us look weak in the eyes of people with hate and vengence on their minds. not so good.

    If he left them all dead like he did Osama, then thats another story.

    But no, he has to appease you instead.

    Posted on February 8, 2012 - 05:53 PM #
  41. Uncle Mort

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    Someone had to pull the plug on this costly and futile military misadventure, built on nigerian yellowcake lies. So let what's done, get done with and stop yer bitching. i've talked to returning GIs who agree. No foreign power has ever 'won' Afghanistan.Read The Great Game by Peter Hopkind and get over your imperial delusions.

    Posted on February 8, 2012 - 06:14 PM #
  42. Brianl

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    How exactly do we walk away from Afghanistan looking like the good guys, the victors here? We don't.

    Just like Iraq, we went into Afghanistan with no end game in sight. The intent was to get Osama bin Laden - that is done. Now what? We have set up a very unpopular government in Afghanistan that will most likely fall as soon as we leave.

    Posted on February 8, 2012 - 06:22 PM #
  43. NoParty

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    The Radical Right forgets that Afghanistan was about Osama DEAD OR ALIVE! We're going to smoke them out of their holes! I guess NOtalent and the rest of the CONs forget to easily.

    Osama is dead!

    GAME OVER!

    Posted on February 8, 2012 - 07:26 PM #
  44. missing_kskd

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    Posts: 14,645

    *THEY* (religious zealots) are not who we need to worry about impressing. (the management of impressions, not seeking approval or validation, to be clear)

    It's everybody else. Those people are GONE. They have drank the kool-aid, much like cult members are lost without severe, invasive, expensive and time consuming intervention / deprogramming.

    On their scale, not gonna happen. Lost.

    So then, this is about the rest of the world, and more importantly, that we unify on how we deal with terror. Bush had quite likely the perfect opportunity to unify the globe, instead entering a war of choice based on lies for profit. Not cool.

    The work Obama is doing right now is good work. It won't impress the zealots. It may well enrage them to some degree. They are, after all, bullies.

    How do we deal with bullies? It sure as hell isn't coddling them. We don't give up who we are out of some fear of a bully. What we do is we marshal our forces, allies, and potent others to deal with the bully, and if we have to face them personally, we give the best we've got, knowing we've got friends.

    Obama is a bridge builder, unifier, a symbol for the free world and all that it really means. He's doing good work, and of all the things I am frustrated over, I find myself very strained to deal with authoritarian types who some how think mere matters of protocol or brute force will resolve what we face in terror.

    If it were true, Bush would have seen much greater success. He didn't see that success, but Obama is. That's all I need to see.

    Posted on February 8, 2012 - 08:33 PM #
  45. missing_kskd

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    Posts: 14,645

    Of course they are going to marginalize Obama. Using dimunutive language like "slave" serves only to rally the faithful. It does nothing to the rest of the world, but reinforce the need for unity and clear resolve to manage those asses, ideally reducing their numbers and strength to the maximum extent possible.

    It won't be possible to eliminate them. Ideas do not die with men. Sadly, that's how we roll. But it is entirely possible to raise the cost of terror and reduce the reward to the point where it's not really worth it in the vast majority of cases, leaving us with whackos who would act ANYWAY.

    Denying this is FEAR based thinking, and brain stem level, "fight or flight" style thinking isn't going to cut it long term. Might feel good though, but it won't really be potent, nor will it get us to a much better state in the world.

    Posted on February 8, 2012 - 08:36 PM #
  46. NoParty

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    FEAR based thinking

    What the Radical Extreme Right runs on.... And sticky grape kool-aid.

    Posted on February 8, 2012 - 08:55 PM #

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