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Socialized Medicine Director Dies Waiting For Operation

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  1. HD

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    In the U.K., a former National Health Service (NHS) director died while waiting for medical care — at her own hospital. The Daily Mail reports:

    Margaret Hutchon, a former mayor, had been waiting since last June for a follow-up stomach operation at Broomfield Hospital in Chelmsford, Essex.

    But her appointments to go under the knife were cancelled four times and she barely regained consciousness after finally having surgery.

    http://visiontoamerica.org/story/-socialized-medicine-director-dies-waiting-for-operation.html

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 04:40 PM #
  2. duxrule

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    Meanwhile, the private health insurance death panels in the U. S. continue their march:

    Cancer Patients Often Stranded in Health Insurance Nightmares

    THURSDAY, Feb. 5 (HealthDay News) -- Last summer, Keith Blessington had just been told that he was eligible for private health insurance to replace his government-funded COBRA coverage when it ran out.
    Click here to find out more!

    Then, the 55-year-old New Hampshire resident was diagnosed with late-stage stomach cancer, and everything changed.

    Although the COBRA coverage paid for most of the cost of his initial surgery, by the time he got out of the hospital having had half his stomach and eight cancerous lymph nodes removed, Blessington found himself ineligible for virtually any private health insurance, because his cancer was now a daunting preexisting condition.

    Blessington is still one of the lucky ones, because he managed to secure insurance through New Hampshire's high-risk insurance pool. However, the coverage is costly, $1,120 a month to be exact.

    Just to survive while he was unable to work, Blessington borrowed $40,000 on his credit card and cashed out his 401K retirement plan.

    "I have enough money for another month or so to live on. My savings are gone," Blessington, a freelance accountant, said recently.

    http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/cancer/articles/2009/02/05/cancer-patients-often-stranded-in-health

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 06:09 PM #
  3. Vitalogy

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    If she was uninsured, she'd be dead anyway. What's your point?

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 06:14 PM #
  4. I love the skull and cross bones with Obamacare underneath at the article Herb. The problem is that Obamacare is not socialized medicine, not even close. Do you ever want to stop making a fool of yourself?

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 06:45 PM #
  5. HD

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    The left's gullibility is astounding.

    Who said socialism occurs in one step?

    Besides, if it's so great, why are so many opposed to it and opting out?

    And if it's so popular, why hire hundreds more IRS agents to enforce it?

    Anyone who wants the government involved with health care should have it.

    Just don't force it on the majority who don't want it.

    Otherwise, you're anti-choice.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 08:41 PM #
  6. lol Speaking of being gullible, please show where IRS will be hired to enforce, herb??? You are sadly misinformed.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 08:56 PM #
  7. Vitalogy

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    If there's one part of government that needs to hire, it's the IRS. If we cut the fraud down by just 10%, we'd have a surplus.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 09:00 PM #
  8. HD

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    Posts: 1,589

  9. Again, Herb, you know what you're talking about? Clownhall and the
    American Stinker,you must be kidding. They will keep you stupid.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/mar/29/mark-kirk/kirk-says-health-care-bill-will-lead-irs-hire-more/

    edit add: http://factcheck.org/2011/02/irs-and-the-health-care-law-part-ii/

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 09:40 PM #
  10. HD

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    Never trust someone who defends killing the unborn moments before birth. That shows how low the current administration is willing to stoop. Lying is actually a step up for this poseur in chief.

    In addition to adding IRS agents, many parts of obamacare don't kick in for a few more years. They had to do that to avoid an even greater backlash and an even faster repeal than is likely to occur.

    How ironic that the left screams ad nauseum 'Keep your laws out of my uterus.' Yet these very same people are so willing to subjugate their entire body to the government. The same government that can't balance a budget, or effectively run postal and train systems. Talk about gullible.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:02 PM #
  11. NoParty

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    Millions die in the united states waiting for care. So what's your point?

    Herb YOU and MILLIONS upon MILLIONS pay for all those people to go to the emergency room every year because they don't have insurance. How are you going to stop that?

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:04 PM #
  12. edselehr

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    "How ironic that the left screams ad nauseum 'Keep your laws out of my uterus. Yet these very same people are so willing to subjugate their entire body to the government. "

    ???

    "subjugate their entire body"??

    You *have* to elaborate on that statement.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:05 PM #
  13. NoParty

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    Herb would you please STFU about abortion. It's old and stale and every GD MFing posts of yours turns into the GD subject!
    I can't trust ANYONE that doesn't allow ANYONE to choose what they do to themselves.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:06 PM #
  14. NoParty

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    I can't trust ANYONE that doesn't allow ANYONE to choose what they do to themselves.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:08 PM #
  15. NoParty

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    I can't trust ANYONE that doesn't allow ANYONE to choose what they do to themselves.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:08 PM #
  16. NoParty

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    I can't trust ANYONE that doesn't allow ANYONE to choose what they do to themselves.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:09 PM #
  17. NoParty

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    I can't trust ANYONE that doesn't allow ANYONE to choose what they do to themselves.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:10 PM #
  18. HD

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    'You *have* to elaborate on that statement.'

    Socialized medicine is hardly a panacea. In fact, by removing choice from the patient, socialized medicine is often a significant step backward. And reducing incentive from the most capable providers is rarely a good idea.

    By granting the government a massive hand in one's health, you are trusting it with your entire body and your life.

    '...Surgeons say patients in some parts of England have spent months waiting in pain because of delayed operations or new restrictions on who qualifies for treatment.

    In several areas routine surgery was put on hold for months, while in many others new [pain and disability] thresholds for hip and knee replacements have been introduced.'

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12964360

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:18 PM #
  19. missing_kskd

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    How many people can pay non-socialized prices?? Having the best available means nothing, if there isn't any money to pay for it.

    On the other hand, with the nationalized, regulated, socialized systems, just about all the people get the care they need, and they don't lose homes (like I did), etc...

    I've a friend in UK. Part of the problem there is Austerity cuts. The system ran just fine before conservatives caused financial problems, very similar to those seen here in the US, with both nations buying into the service economy, free market, cheap labor policy.

    In our system, costs are rising, with people tipping over for lack of resources and preventative care access. In theirs people are waiting and such.

    Here, lose everything, maybe live, and there you go. There? Wait, maybe live, keep your stuff, and there you go.

    Both issues caused by poorly valued labor impacting the respective systems.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:21 PM #
  20. The affordable Care Act is NOT SOCIALIZED MEDICINE, get that through your THICK SKULL, Herb. It's about insurance - that's all.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:27 PM #
  21. NoParty

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    I can't trust ANYONE that doesn't allow ANYONE to choose what they do to themselves.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:27 PM #
  22. Vitalogy

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    If you're against socialized medical care, then I suggest you not use Medicare, which I'm sure you're using. While you're at it, be a man and forgo your Social Security too. Hypocrite.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:30 PM #
  23. NoParty

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    Herb probably uses up his Medicare benis 3 days into each month.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:31 PM #
  24. missing_kskd

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    Oh, I think it's likely he would vote it away for us, you know, to teach us a lesson?

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:31 PM #
  25. NoParty

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    Damn CONers!

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:33 PM #
  26. "If you're against socialized medical care, then I suggest you not use Medicare, which I'm sure you're using. While you're at it, be a man and forgo your Social Security too. Hypocrite. "

    Medicare isn't socialize medicine either. It's a single payer system. The Dept. of Veteran Affairs is true socialized medicine - they provide doctors, nurses, facilities.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:47 PM #
  27. Andrew

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    I don't know anyone who is advocating for Socialized Medicine in the United States. I'd much prefer the French system to Socialized Medicine. The French insure EVERYONE for half as much per capita as we do. In France, you can see any doctor you want, you can get an appointment generally within about a week, the PRICES are listed on a chart in the office when you go in, the maximum out of pocket per visit that you must pay (until reimbursed) is about $100, and the insurance companies *MUST* pay your claim, by law, within about a week!

    By contrast, Socialized Medicine has a lot of problems. I wouldn't want it in the United States. But in an ideal world, I'd like to see single payer here.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 11:26 PM #
  28. missing_kskd

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    Seconded. The French system is really quite good. I don't want socialized care either.

    I do want well distributed costs and risks, which the French system does.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 11:29 PM #
  29. I'm very close to at least being on the fence about socialized medicine.

    But then there will always be those damn CONers who get ill on purpose just to exploit the system!

    But I could be persuaded on this one.

    I've seen how devastating an illness can be financially, but in our case, though our insurance had a high deductible, at least a huge chunk was covered. The bigger problem was loss of income since I needed to stay home, and not travel, but I don't know if any medical plan could have helped in my situation.

    I wonder how much illness could be prevented with exercise and a proper diet. I see 400 pound women riding their carts in Wal-Mart, and they must have some serious health issues, probably are taking insulin, probably can't work and are getting some assistance both for income and medical--and much of it could have been prevented.

    I wonder if incentives could be built into the system, so those who do their best to avoid costly care are somehow rewarded.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 11:35 PM #
  30. Andrew

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    Why would you want socialized medicine? It's not rated pretty highly worldwide, which is why so few countries use it. Britain and who else? In the US, the Veterans Administration is our version of socialized medicine. I'd prefer something like Medicare for All (which is much easier said than done, though.)

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 11:38 PM #
  31. I'm using the wrong term, I think.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 11:41 PM #
  32. missing_kskd

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    That's easy to do.

    There is access to care and then there is delivery of care. Our Health Care Reform worked on the problem of access to care costs. I'm particularly sensitive to these because there is a conflict of interest between paying out for care and profit. Most nations have solved that by either socializing the access problem, or using a hybrid (france), or through serious regulation, like a utility, or bank used to have here, for a reasonable and consistent, though not sexy profit. (Sweden, I think)

    The French system is attractive to me because the basic care, "mutuele" (SP?) is inexpensive and the default. That will get you though, with few frills, but nobody is losing homes, etc... Add on coverage, or "value added" coverage is available through private insurers, where they don't have to deal with the conflict of interest, instead providing a nice value for dollar coverage, that covers co-pay and supply bills not covered in the base system, and with lots of riders that address different coverage needs and choices. If you want to be pampered when sick, you can get that! Or, if you want to keep it strictly business, you can get that too.

    It's a very nice hybrid, and the beauty of that is the massive load on access costs and risks is well distributed nationally, no conflict of interest there, costs low. From there, private companies can sell add ons, in what is a nice market place. Seems more American than what we have right now, frankly.

    BTW: Here, private insurers operate on very thick operating costs, some up to 30 percent of every dollar. We get nothing for that, other than them bearing some risk, but there is the conflict and no real competition, because we tie it to employment and such.

    Then there is the delivery of care. As Andrew mentioned, our VA is that kind of system. I don't think it's desirable for most of the reasons given, though I would take it, if forced, instead of the mess we have now, because I would still have the work product of my 20's and 30's today.

    Anyway, again there are variations, ranging from all private, to hybrids, to socialized, each with trade-offs.

    If anything, we really should consider a hybrid here, just for cost and preventative reasons, with private care, specializing on top of that.

    Of all the things discussed, I too prefer Medicare for all, just because it's a huge savings on access costs. (25 percent by most metrics I've seen) There would have to be some adjustments in how it pays and why it pays, but honestly, those are great discussions to be having.

    After learning how people in nations with good, functional systems experience lower overall personal cost and risk, it's a no-brainer for me. Those are direct conversations with people in France, UK, Germany, BTW. I know them well from one of my electronics hobbies.

    If we decoupled it from employment, we would seriously improve how competitive small business is. In the small business I work in, health care costs for good coverage, comparable to what we see in other nations, low deductible, most things paid, low out of pocket, etc... it is the single highest cost growth center in the company, costing us about a full time position, we all work some extra, on salary, to fill that gap today.

    Increases have been double digit each year for many years now...

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 11:57 PM #
  33. Andrew

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    Yes, Herb in particular has no clue what "socialized medicine" is and loves to talk it down as if anyone on the left even wants "socialized medicine." I don't know anyone who does.

    "Socialized medicine" means the government owns the hospitals. The doctors are independent contractors (or something like that) to the government. The system has some benefits (chiefly, that medical care costs NOTHING when you need it - not directly, anyway) but has many drawbacks. It doesn't cover everything and non-urgent care may require long waits.

    Posted on April 6, 2011 - 12:06 AM #
  34. missing_kskd

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    Thanks for clarifying that.

    One other downside to that, IMHO, is it would take a rather aggressive government to match the benefits of innovation we have here, and that other nations take good advantage of in either their private or hybrid model systems.

    Posted on April 6, 2011 - 12:11 AM #
  35. missing_kskd

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    Once we've got some handle on access costs, which we don't yet, IMHO. We can then start seriously talking about how to get the most out of the care dollars.

    Lots of good things to be done there, and with access made sane, or ideally nationalized, we could very easily allow a market approach to take those dollars and put them to work for us.

    In such a scenario, the emphasis would be on innovation and efficiency / quality, which would be very, very good for us as people.

    Posted on April 6, 2011 - 12:13 AM #

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