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Seeburg 1K Audio Stream Update

(25 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by motozak3
  • Latest reply from westernelectric

  1. motozak3

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    The IP number for the *real* Seeburg 1000 stream (tied to http://seeburg1000.com/; not the other one that tries to pass as "Radio Coast" these days) appears to have changed recently. Now it can now be heard on http://50.23.115.122:8204/ .

    It seems like they do that every year around this time.

    It also sounds like they (at long last) have fixed the grounding loop, since it doesn't have that ever-present loud humming noise in the background. Nice. I think they're processing it differently, too, because it definitely has some "ballsy" dynamics (a very well-defined low end.) That low-level rhythmic "thumping" or "bumping" noise is also gone, so it appears they must have also fixed that faulty idler in the turntable.

    Posted on December 16, 2012 - 12:20 AM #
  2. Thanks for the link, Moto! I like listening to the Seeburg 1000 stream (I actually like the "music" for relaxing), but also, since I am a complete troll, I find much delight in irritating my wife with it!(She is a Portland State graduate with a major in music...a former Opera singer...)

    She absolutely hates music from the 60s-80s...one day I was listening to some flavour of oldies (proably 60's) and her statement to me was:

    "Why do you listen to that oldie-mouldie crap? I want to listen to something more modern!"

    So being the troll that I am, I changed the music to a Baroque piece from centuries past...

    Her response?

    "That's much better!"

    So much for something more modern!!!

    Posted on December 16, 2012 - 08:40 AM #
  3. edust1958

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    Moto... for us clueless, what is this stream and what is its commercial use?

    Posted on December 16, 2012 - 08:44 AM #
  4. I think it is just run by a hobbyist for nostalgic purposes. I saw an old Seeburg machine for sale at an Antique Mall in Lincoln City a couple of years ago, not sure if it had any of the special "Seeburg" 16 2/3 RPM records with it or not.

    Posted on December 16, 2012 - 08:49 AM #
  5. msndrspdx

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    I listen to Radio Coast once in awhile. It's out of Raleigh, NC, and they program their music with the same computer software KISN Goodguy Radio uses, so the sound is usually pretty good. The channel also has a "talking clock" that offers time (set to ET) and temperature (Raleigh's) updates between cuts, usually three or four times an hour. And they play CBS top of the hour news updates as well. No commercials! The guy who runs it found a Seeburg player on E-Bay and got interested enough in it to acquire enough records to create an online radio station out of it, digitizing the music right off the records. Nice stuff, especially late at night...

    Best, Mike

    Posted on December 16, 2012 - 09:02 AM #
  6. Mrs.Merkin

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    Oh Good God! That was beyond horrible! I just heard 'Spinning Wheel' by Blood Sweat & Tears, muzak style with piccolos and violins, dripping with high fructose corn syrup.

    I now want to chew my own ears off.

    Posted on December 16, 2012 - 09:48 AM #
  7. motozak3

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    The present incarnation of Radio Coast is a sacreliege. It was far better when they were still playing the records all the way through *in their entirety* and didn't have the irritating news blocks, weather reports and time announcements. When they took on their present format, it quickly went directly down the toilet. The randomness of it and the constant interruptions completely ruin whatever mood they were trying to invoke.

    I mean, why do you suppose Muzak doesn't do any of those things, but only has continuous music streams? That's why. If you're going to operate a business music service, even a "tribute" to one like the seeburg1000.com stream, it's best to preserve the sanctity of it by leaving things as they are and not adding stuff to it that isn't supposed to be there.

    @edust1958--

    What QPatrickEdwards said.

    Posted on December 16, 2012 - 02:12 PM #
  8. jr_tech

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    The IP number for the *real* Seeburg 1000 stream (tied to http://seeburg1000.com/; not the other one that tries to pass as "Radio Coast" these days) appears to have changed recently. Now it can now be heard on http://50.23.115.122:8204/ .

    So what is the advantage of using the stream link? If I use the Seeburg 1000 site link, I get to see an unusual changer in action, and there is a place to click to listen to the stream. If I click on "stream" link, I see a boring Shoutcast page and have to click on "listen" to hear the stream. By my count, the same number of responses are required to get to hear the same stream.
    I found the Seeburg 1000 site to be pretty interesting, as I have never seen the actual player...very cool! Does the upper part of the spindle actually rotate in the *opposite* direction from the platter? Perhaps this is just an optical illusion due to the video rate?
    I am not ready to "chew my ears off", but this would *not* be my first choice even for background music.

    Posted on December 16, 2012 - 02:20 PM #
  9. Mrs. Merkin said: "Oh Good God! That was beyond horrible! I just heard 'Spinning Wheel' by Blood Sweat & Tears, muzak style with piccolos and violins, dripping with high fructose corn syrup.

    I now want to chew my own ears off."

    I have heard worse...there is a Chinese restaurant that my wife and I frequent that ALWAYS is playing the same Debbie Gibson tape from the 80's. Every time we eat there. Every. Friggin. Time.

    If I didn't have my plate of General Tso's Chicken directly in front of me I would have chewed my own ears off!

    Posted on December 16, 2012 - 02:21 PM #
  10. motozak3

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    @jr_tech--

    Well, obviously the stream link gets you the direct audio stream if you put it into your audio player instead of opening it in the browser (or a big MP3 file if you use it with wget.) The other one goes to the web page promoting the stream. They (wisely) don't use a FLash player on the site, but instead link to a Shoutcast page which eventually gives you the direct stream URL anyways. This just saves everybody a couple steps.

    Yes, the two stacks of records do counter-rotate. See, first the machine plays the underside of the record (side 1), then it drops it down and plays the top side of the record (side 2); consequently, the cartridge has needles on the top and bottom and two sets of pickup coils. There is a set of metal pins in the spindle tube which hold the stack in place, than retract to allow the record to drop. This also explains why the holes in the records have to be cut so large, since part of the player's mechanism is inside the spindle tube.

    Posted on December 16, 2012 - 02:31 PM #
  11. jr_tech

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    My Word! Way more complicated than the RCA 45 spindle!

    "Debbie Gibson tape"

    Now *thats* ear chewin' material!

    Actually found some Seeburg 1000 stuff on the 'Bay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=seebg+1000&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=seeburg+1000&_sacat=0

    Posted on December 16, 2012 - 03:04 PM #
  12. motozak3

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    Funny you should mention the "45 spindle", since the 1000's precursor was a 45-based unit that used the same type of magazine and phonograph unit they were using in their standard jukeboxes at the time, called the "Library Unit". These weren't produced for very long, and the 1000 had a couple big advantages over it. The most obvious ones being that the records have a far longer playback time than a 45 (a single Seeburg 1K disk can hold about the equivalent of two library units, more or less) and the playback units take up far less physical space.

    The records show up on E-Bay at least somewhat irregularly, but they're there. I've also seen them on Amazon a couple times. I have a few myself that I acquired locally, but I need to get a new cartridge for the turntable since my old Shure ended up getting murdered last summer.

    If you're lucky, you might also come across a few of Rowe's "Customusic" records, which run on the same Seeburg equipment. And if you're *really* lucky, you might also come across one of the super-rare S1K disks Muzak put out in the '60s!

    Posted on December 16, 2012 - 03:51 PM #
  13. New S1K stream URL: http://50.7.96.210:8204/

    Posted on October 21, 2013 - 02:42 PM #
  14. Alfredo_T

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    I this stream a Seeburg that is playing continually? How long are these records usable before they wear out to the point of being unlistenable?

    Posted on October 22, 2013 - 05:09 PM #
  15. It was during its first couple years but I don't believe it is any more:

    From my observations it sounds like he's taken all the records and copied them into a computer system or a CD changer and plays them from there. Previously, one would actually hear the mechanical side/disk changeovers on the stream at the beginning and end of each record, but apart from the occasional "cartridge reject" or "needle drop" noise burst that may have been overlooked in the editing process, that's pretty much all gone now. If that's the case it's definitely a smart move, preventing such wear and damage to the records and equipment (replacement parts for those machines can be a real bitch to find today, as are the records themselves.) There's also a "best of Seeburg 1000" thing he does periodically, playing random blocks of around 8-10 selections from various records/libraries throughout the time slot, which can't easily be done (if at all) in real time from an actual S1K machine.

    Offhand, I'd guess an S1K record probably lasts about as long as a regular 33, given proper care.

    Posted on October 22, 2013 - 06:47 PM #
  16. That's awesome! I love it already.

    Posted on October 22, 2013 - 07:17 PM #
  17. Alfredo_T

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    Here is a Seeburg record played on a standard turntable:

    https://www.youtube.com/v/-JMyyWcP_34

    The person who posted this video just carefully centered the record on the platter, though he says that he is thinking of machining a custom adapter to play his Seeburg records. The sound quality is amazingly good, especially given the low speed AND the location of the track being played.

    Posted on October 23, 2013 - 12:16 AM #
  18. missing_kskd

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    Very cool!

    You know, machining an adapter isn't necessary. One could make a three pronged adapter, like a Y shape. Drill a small hole into some sheet type plastic, then cut out the Y. Measure out from the hole center and manually cut to slightly oversize, then sand or shave the plastic off to a precision size.

    Would probably take an hour done right.

    Posted on October 23, 2013 - 09:05 AM #
  19. I just use a 2" mayonnaise jar lid with a 1/4" hole (or whatever the diametre of a 33 spindle is) punched dead-centre. Seems to work well enough.

    The RCA record changer used in the above Youtube post (as well as several others) is definitely NOT the sort of phonograph one would want to use to play an S1K record or any other. The non-counterweighted tonearm with ceramic cartridge (and, more than likely, oversized needle even for a stereo 33) has got to be like a plough running through the grooves.

    It's often said that a 0.5 mil needle is required to play an S1K disk--yes and no. These records do have narrower grooves but this is accomplished by rolling off most of the bass and loudness, resulting in a fairly shallow cut compared to a conventional LP. This is also why the standard-issue disks tend to have a rather "flat" frequency response. In reality, the standard-issue S1K disks are produced similarly to how those awful K-Tel "30 cuts on one stereo LP" or old-time radio "single" mono LPs with a full 1/2 hour episode on each side, were made in later years. Thus, a S1K record can still be played with a standard counterweighted magnetic 0.7 mil LP needle, with perhaps a slightly lighter tracking force, and sound fine. Of course, any record can benefit from the greater compliance and tracking of a 0.5 mil needle, especially stereo LPs.

    In the early '60s Seeburg did experiment with a primarily jazz-driven "extended range" format called "Encore", if I recall correctly, which had a deeper cut but a significantly shorter playing time as a result. The Rowe jukebox company (a major competitor to Seeburg) did the same thing with their compatible "Customusic" records. I don't know what sort of cut Muzak used during their brief S1K phase, but I imagine it wasn't too different from the regular Seeburg disks because of the very tight timing requirements they had at the time. 45 minutes (three 15-minute Muzak blocks in their "Stimulus Progression" format) fit nicely on one record side using the shallow "Seeburg cut".

    But don't bother asking me what I had for dinner last night.

    Posted on October 23, 2013 - 11:03 AM #
  20. Alfredo_T

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    I wonder, were I ever to come across one of these records, would it be OK to play with my Shibata stylus, which uses a tracking force of about 1.25 grams? The only problem is that my turntable does not have a 16 2/3 RPM speed.

    Posted on October 23, 2013 - 02:54 PM #
  21. You might. If you only have a two-speed phonograph you *could* transfer it to the computer at 33.3 RPM and drop the speed by exactly one-half in Audacity. The sound quality may be somewhat more distorted than if played at the correct 16.6 RPM (depending how well your magnetic cartridge handles very high audio frequencies) but it'd be better than nothing.

    I've done it that way using a junky two-speed JVC belt drive table with P-mount Audio Technica 1001 cartridge, anyways (tracking force permanently set at 1.25g.) It's defitely not a Stanton, but as far as I can tell, the records are still perfectly playable.

    How big is your Shibata needle, 0.7 mil?

    Posted on October 23, 2013 - 03:09 PM #
  22. Alfredo_T

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    Posts: 5,163

    The stylus that I am using is an Audio Technica AT-12S. This was meant to be a universal stylus capable of playing quadraphonic records as well as stereo and mono records. I haven't been able to find the tip size, but I am guessing that it is 0.7 mil. The contact area, however, is very long and skinny to avoid damaging the high frequency features of quadraphonic record grooves (the cartridge that this plugs into is rated to 45 kHz).

    Here are some pictures I took when the stylus first arrived:

    http://www.386server.info/~alfredo/Record_pictures/NewStylus_Front.jpg
    http://www.386server.info/~alfredo/Record_pictures/NewStylus_L.jpg
    http://www.386server.info/~alfredo/Record_pictures/NewStylus_R.jpg
    http://www.386server.info/~alfredo/Record_pictures/NewStylus_Tip.jpg

    I am glad I bought this when I did because the prices have gone up a good bit in just the last 3 years or so.

    Posted on October 23, 2013 - 05:16 PM #
  23. Alfredo_T

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    I found one photo online that I liked so much that I saved it:

    http://www.386server.info/~alfredo/Record_pictures/conical-eliptical-stylus.jpg

    The Shibata is somewhat similar in shape to the elliptical shown in the photo. Looking at that photo, I suspect that the Shibata wouldn't damage the Seeburg record because its contact area would extend over the area where the Seeburg needle (presumably conical) makes contact.

    Here is a diagram showing the contact areas for several different types of styli:

    http://www.groovenorthwest.com/wp-content/uploads/stylic.jpg

    Looking at that diagram, I can see why it would not be correct to call the Shibata stylus a 0.7 mil stylus.

    Now, here is a photo of a record worn out by repeated playing with spherical styli, using excessive tracking force:

    http://www.386server.info/~alfredo/Record_pictures/Blondie-sidewall.jpg

    The contact area of the styli can clearly be seen in the record grooves.

    Posted on October 23, 2013 - 05:52 PM #
  24. You could try it, I guess. (Is your tone arm counterweighted?) I think that generally, if one's table/magnetic cartridge can satisfactorily run mono microgroove LPs without damaging them, one should be able to play a Seeburg disk, since that's basically what they are. Chances are a quad needle and cart like yours might even be easier on the record than the Pickering cartridges and big heavy tonearms Seeburg put in the 1K machines--might even track better.

    If you do get hold of any S1K records (check E-Bay; they show up on there periodically) and can get it to work, be sure to post some cuts from it so we can all hear.

    Posted on October 23, 2013 - 08:15 PM #
  25. Link to the Shoutcast PLS file for the (real) S1K stream: http://yp.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-station.pls?id=150450

    Check it from time to time (about once every few months or so) to be sure you have the latest stream URL.

    Posted on November 18, 2013 - 09:36 PM #

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