http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35814348/ns/us_news-education/
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 01:43 PM
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School district cancels prom over lesbian
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IMO: we can't legislate "morality." Society has put women and girls on pedestals for beauty for generations, it's inevitable that some women and girls will find other women attractive.
It's a small town in Mississippi, and it's run by an older generation with money. Most of them are more conservative and they don't agree with it[.]
Fly her to and her girlfriend to Portland for something or other here. She'd probably be welcomed by the GLBTQ crowd here (and then some) for who she is with open arms. Just don't tell TriMet.
Interesting that the students they quoted in the article seem to get it more than the school district. One of them even said to just let her wear a tux and be done with it.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 04:41 PM # -
If they just let her and her girlfriend in and don't make a big stink no one hears about it. They added fuel to fire by canceling the prom and now have put the town on the map in a negative light.
There are far more important things to discuss than a prom.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 06:14 PM # -
They added fuel to fire by canceling the prom and now have put the town on the map in a negative light.
I've a hunch if we visit that town, we'd find plenty of negative things high lighted. Too bad bigotry often rubs off on kids so it'll take many more generations before this area gets into the 21st century.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 06:27 PM # -
I wonder how they'd handle the heterosexual kids screwing behind the bleachers.
I think school officials, as a group, are the dumbest individuals around.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 06:40 PM # -
If you had ever worked in a school district , you would probably not make that kind of statement Deane.
I do work for a school district. And you cant believe what the Parents do, to say nothing of the kids !!What the parents do and say in school board meetings Deane.
We dont have problems over here with homosexual behavior at school persay..in that displaying PDA is PDA no matter who does it to whom. PDA=Public Display of Affection ). The kids and the parents are still biased and do discriminate against same sex PDA and or sexual activity. The kids are vocal. The Parents are devious about it. It is a fact everywhere almost. Perhaps an exception would be in San Francisco County and a few other places.
This Lesbian thing at the Prom, the district's solution, is just a little overstated by that school district I think. They might have done this to avoid an ugly incident at the Prom and in most communities this happens because most kids and their parents find homosexuality replusive or unnatural, especially if it is in their own backyard so to speak. Some of the kids are the ones who usually do stupid acts of intolerance toward those who are different in their sexual preferences.
But , because we are the inclusive and permissive society that we are, we must support alternate life style as long as we provide a " level playing field " for all participants.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 06:54 PM # -
I didn't say every school official is dumb, only lots of them. We'll assume you're not one of those. Your posts would indicate you're one of the OK ones.
The better way to handle the lesbian thing would have been to do nothing. Let her come dressed the way she wants. If her peers don't like it, they'll shun her, if they don't care one way or another, it would go just fine. She's got a life time of coping ahead, let it begin at the prom. Because they made a big deal out of it, it's screwed up for everybody involved.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 07:21 PM # -
"U.S. Rep. Jared Polis, D-Colo., said a bill he's introduced in Congress would protect students such as McMillen. Polis said the measure would make it illegal to discriminate against gay and lesbian school students. He said his bill is modeled after similar laws in at least 10 states.
"This situation with the prom is a perfect example of why we need to protect students from discrimination. In this case it's a prom. It other cases, it's getting beaten up or killed," Polis said."
Well, that's a start. Wow, the whole thing has been cancelled because of what should be a no-brainer request. And it doesn't sound like anyone in the town is willing to pony up and host the prom.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 07:23 PM # -
At my daughters high school they have a club for gays and lesbian and transexual students, so its just part of the school community. When the daily email comes out they often have programs like all the other clubs do.
We've lived in this community nearly 22 years and not once have we heard any problems at the high school dealing with this kind of issue. If there have been any incidents they were taken care of properly.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 07:49 PM # -
Chris - we also happen to live in a state and a region that is much more tolerant of the GLBT community, and of minorities in general. This is Mississippi, where a lot of the establishment is still fighting the Civil War in their minds, sadly.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 07:52 PM # -
And because this school district IS in Mississippi, that very fact is likely WHY they canceled the Prom. Too many ' Good Ole Boys" still in Old Miss'... and too many mentalities still attracted to the " white robes and torches" !!
The District didnt want to have some real life version of the movie " Carrie "....
Some yokums dumping Pigs blood on the Lesbian.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 08:02 PM # -
Anyone else here think the school district did this as a way to make a point about being gay? They cancel the whole prom, so everybody suffers. A majority of the student body then blames the gay chick for ruining it for everyone. This reeks of a lesson learned...
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 08:14 PM # -
I really do support that district in this. It is probaby because I work for one and know what turmoil they go through with Parents and the Kids sometimes. Every one is Tort happy when it comes to a percieved deep pocket entity like a school district.
They dont want the liability, period. And they dont have to take it. And if they get successfully sued by SOMEONE, the public-taxpayers ultimately pay the price for the award/judgement. When the ACLU got involved in this , the Prom was all over with. It is all about liability now.
And as usual, it is all about MONEY.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 08:20 PM # -
The school district is flat out wrong. If they had the balls, what they should have done was keep the prom on and ban her. The ultimate goal was to keep two lesbians from attending the prom. Why punish all the other students? Just come forward and tell everyone what you really think, and that is that the school district thinks gays are less than human.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 08:30 PM # -
Oh but Vit that isnt how the world works buddy...you outtah know that !!
You punish EVERYONE when an authority like a school district administration is challenged by another authority, successfully.
Everyone suffers !! Its the American Way ...
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 08:33 PM # -
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Having family members who work for varying school districts I completely understand kennewicks sentiments.
There is a lot to be said about regionalism. I agree it was stupid but politics and biases run deep and the south is sometimes like another country.
Happy to live here.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 10:10 PM # -
The school district is clearly sending the wrong message to the other students. This isn't about money, its about bigotry. I agree, they are asses.
Posted on March 11, 2010 - 10:17 PM # -
This is a bit of a stretch. But we are talking here about punitive measures taken by School Officials so this is my personal story of such a thing.
My Senior class play in 1969 was "Our Town " by Thornton Wilder. I got a small part in it playing Constable Warren. We had evening rehersals and at one of these, about 8 pm I went outside on the sidewalk and smoked a cigarette. I got busted and was expelled from the play. The kids and several teachers thought this was too harsh under the circumstances. However, those of you who live in Vancouver ,Wa might remember that Fort Vancouver High School, the old building , since demolished, that was located at 26th and Main streets, actually burned TWICE the two previous years , 1967, and 68...and from Student smoking carelessness IN THE BUILDING. Well the school district Administration made an example out of the " Kennewickman "....So I was kicked out, period...but my folks were not called nor was I suspended or punished otherwise. I was rather devistated by the attention it endeared as the kids had a hallway protest sit in thing on my behalf...and several of them got KICKED out of school over that...and It was all because of me smoking...well you know at 18 years old, how emotional you can get...so I was all wound up about it for a time and I eventually had to tell my folks what happened...but like many other things that have to do with YOUTH , you eventually get over it all...well so now fast forward 41 years...
Our school district here in Kennewick oftentimes features Adult Staff members in School productions. This year they are doing Our Town ...So I am connected with some of the drama people here and they gave me this Constable Warren part to do...now..So I get to reprise a roll I NEVER GOT TO FINISH 41 years ago...
here is the link :
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2010/03/12/935783/kennewick-high-schools-team-up.html
Posted on March 12, 2010 - 09:56 AM # -
See, what did I say yesterday about this ?
Lawsuits running rampant in all directions.
Enter the Lawyers.............................
Posted on March 12, 2010 - 01:47 PM # -
Good, they deserve to be sued.
Posted on March 12, 2010 - 01:57 PM # -
kennewickman,
Your Constable Warren role is interesting, but what I want to know, did you take your boyfriend to the Prom?
Posted on March 12, 2010 - 02:20 PM # -
No, but as I was smoking my cigarette outside there back in 1969 , another student ...was Peeing off the side of the outside stair railing, 3 sheets to the wind drunk as it turned out . The teacher that busted me had to get past him to see me. The teacher didnt kick him out of the play for peeing off the staircase into the stairwell of the boys lockerroom !!! He infact wound up playing the part that I got axed from !!!
He is drunk peeing in public and I am having a smoke out on a concrete sidwalk IN THE RAIN...and I am the one who gets kicked out of the play???
I am traumatized, I want an ACLU lawyer RIGHT NOW.
Posted on March 12, 2010 - 02:34 PM # -
Posted on March 12, 2010 - 02:41 PM #
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Kennewickman, I rest my case with your last post.
Posted on March 12, 2010 - 03:56 PM # -
I can see your point Deane...however, this school was built in 1911 and added to in 1938. It was a fire trap, essentially. The school had been arsoned TWICE in the previous 1.5 years prior to my expulsion from the Senior Class play in 1969. Infact the last fire had been in a Couch stage prop started after a Senior Class presentation on a Saturday Night in May of 1968. That fire was caused by some kid smoking backstage after the show. It burned thru the roof of the Auditorium and took out much of the stage and some of the seating. The district had no choice but to repair the damage as there was no other building at that time to replace it.
I know what happened now because I have since talked to the 'kid 'who did the peeing ( I am not even going to use his first name here ) ... He told me that he got off the hook because the Principal was looking to make an example of me for smoking on school grounds and that I was in the Play and the year before they had a big fire on stage. So I was the scapegoat. The Drama teacher begged the Administration not to take "Mr Pee boy" out of the Play because she didnt have anyone else to take my part on short notice !!! So it all was a set up..they wanted a scapegoat for the SMOKING and didnt care to hassle the other kid and did want to accomodate the Drama teacher....
I was also a kid who was a Student AV tech and took care of their language lab set up, which was a studio really ...solid state , with reel to reel tape decks , microphones and headsets and an audio console of sorts. So I had a fairly good reputation around the place then..and they didnt persue any other punitive measures. I also talked to my Language Lab advisor who was my German Teacher..and the head of the dept there at that time..I was friends with him until he died in the late 80s..and he essentially told me the same thing later on after I was 'all grown up ''....
I understand it all now, I didnt understand it much back when it happened.
Posted on March 12, 2010 - 05:56 PM # -
That kind of thing sticks with you. I've a few of those from school times myself.
As a little kid, I had ZERO tolerance for the "make an example" deal. Would hit back hard, too hard, and the only thing that saved me is youth. Seriously.
Just so you know, I found out by accident that talking to the school admins later in life completely resolves these things! When I was an elementary school kid, I was absolutely horrible. Didn't take shit either back then. Was the only kid never spanked too. Yes, my town allowed spanking in the school in the 70's, and I found it completely amazing to watch the biggest bully in the school, bend over and just take it. Fuck that! In my mind then, the only ones that could do that, and it was not ok to do that, but who could do that were parents, and when my time was up, I made it clear that was going to be very costly. Got called on it, and I made it costly enough to never get called on it again.
Anyway, that principal and I clashed enough times to warrant some serious intervention, all of which completely failed. One teacher retired after a student march was organized, to the tune of "Problem Child" ACDC, (yeah, a friend and I did that), another tried to have me and a few others moved to a "facility" that didn't happen after my interview with a shrink, who I befriended that day, and at one point the building was without power sometime during my 6th grade year. I sat there and listened to them, finally asking, "you mean you don't have spares for those?", with the head building facilities guy about to just beat the tar out of me right then and there. I had gotten pissed off and just shut down the mains, which they did not have locked, pulled the big fuses (and I mean big ass fuses), tossed them onto the roof, and took a long walk in the field, before being escorted back, for some "hints" as to where they could be found.
Now, just to be fair, those clowns did lock me in the facilities room for isolation, because they didn't have an isolation room, and I read everything in there. Hell, I was in there for two fucking days! They built a special isolation room after that, BTW. Made another mistake with that one. It was sound proofed, so we played D&D, listening to billy squire. They installed the mic next week, so we would sing really goofy songs constantly, until let out, or they turn the mic off, so we could play D&D again...
So, it was ugly. Hard to imagine being any uglier.
Met that principal at a reception about 20 years later! Found out he lost $100 bet that day, as he and the assistant, who got as good as he gave, trying to give me a swat as well, had a bet as to whether or not I would be in jail before 21, or after.
(I've committed no crimes at all, just acted out for a little social justice, in a regressive red neck town as a kid)
We talked for probably an hour, and it was the most interesting conversation either of us had! Amazingly, both of us had some really powerful things to say to one another, and time allowed that to occur.
He's still running schools, admitted to almost leaving the field in his 40's over my grade school years, didn't, and went on to do some great stuff. Good guy, and something I would never have known, had we not met by chance that day.
Posted on March 13, 2010 - 09:55 AM # -
I hope when you pulled those fuses out of the Main , you shut off the panel disconnect first !!! Otherwise you might have had an interesting time discoursing with your " Guardian Angel " about proper electrical safety proceedures..
Brave little shit werent you ?
Posted on March 13, 2010 - 10:31 AM # -
Foolish is the correct word, another couple would be idealistic and naive. Yes, I pulled the disconnect. That was in the book. Safety first! Seriously, I was big on that concept, because of my interest in electronics and mechanical things. Don't want to go getting shocked (one bad shock is enough to teach the lesson), or lose fingers or an eye.
Like most curious kids, I got my safety lesson sticking stuff into the wall plugs. We really should have come up with a better design. After that, it was read the (*&*&^(&^ directions!
Anyway, what you would find is those admins were probably faced with a lose lose dilemma. That's what our conversation revealed, and it was very interesting discussion.
On one hand, you've order to keep, on the other hand, people screw stuff up, and then it's all a matter of deciding where the shit will roll down and what it costs. Quite literally, you were a cheap option, most likely. That's usually the kind of thing that set me off then, but I didn't know it. Really, it was just "unjust" or "not fair", and I just didn't see the value of taking that kind of shit.
I know from those times in my life, that risk reward, or simple cost drives a lot of things. Have used it ever since in business deals, account management, and my own kids (with mixed results, mind you --they can come up with "costs" really easy), none of whom ever pulled what I did.
Another was the power struggle. If an adult enters into one of those with a kid, they flat out lose. Why? The cost is high, and can easily be escalated by the kid, who has little chance for reward, but for gratification. More correct answers are diversion, cooperation, an alliance, covenant, etc... All lower the potential for costs, while putting real rewards for the right behavior on the table for kids.
(and most adults too, but that's more complex)
I was a very angry kid, and that's the last word. Truth is, there were things I wanted to learn, like how stuff works, and a whole bunch of stuff that I considered (and often still do) consider largely useless.
Another thing with kids is "fairness". They seem to zero in on that, and use it to judge the merits of the rules. If a kid "grows up" early, then that idea of fairness presents a problem, because their perspective is enough to deny the usual basic manipulations, mostly because they are seen as such.
The anger for me was contradictory religious dogma, major league father son conflicts, and those plus my interest in technical things all boiled up to a fairly ugly mess, most of which I acted out in school, and it was that shrink near the end, who got that sorted for me, and we became friends. I used to call her regularly, and over that primary school summer, things changed. Moved on to High School, and most of the anger went away, and the world matched where I was at mentally, and I had none of those kinds of issues.
Posted on March 13, 2010 - 10:59 AM # -
The first two post in this thread authored by Deane made perfect sense.
When I was in HS one of the best job performances at our HS was from the principal, he understood the students and went out of his way to spend time getting to know the students and he had an excellent rapport with the parents as well. Unfortunately for the students and school district he didn't play office politics well. He expected alot from his teachers and support staff. When they failed to live up to his expectations he called them on it. Needless to say that the school's staff split and sided with and or against the principal. They took the facts about this principals job performance and stretched them into lies and untruths so far from the truth it looked really bad. The staff who orchestrated this were all ready to retire so they had nothing to loose. In the end it was a witch hunt to get rid of a principal who demanded excellence from his staff so that he would not have to demand it from his students. The students protested in an epic way by walking out of class and caravaning to the district headquarters to protest and complain. In the end though a man's career was ruined. After his termination he was quoted in the newspaper as saying he would be lucky to even be able to be hired as a school bus driver out of state. SAD. This is why for the most part people in education especially administrations as a group of people are the worst in general.
Posted on March 13, 2010 - 11:51 AM # -
And another Ironic thing I find , in my experience relative to this High School Incident with the Fires and my smoking and so forth is that now I work for a school Distict and am responsible for project design, maintainence and testing of fire alarm and security systems in all our of school buildings. I have an electrical license to do so and so forth etc. See where my life went ?
Sometimes I believe strongly in the concept of KARMA. And this is one of those times.
Posted on March 13, 2010 - 12:35 PM # -
Yeah, I believe in KARMA too. For me, there are two kinds:
1. The KARMA bucket kind. If your KARMA bucket isn't filled with mostly good KARMA, well... bad things are gonna happen. The last few years have challenged this, but I think I can consider grade school fully called in, meaning, I've got few worries going forward. We shall see.
2. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it, and the "some things happen for a reason" kind. Like you, I've had some minor league events, people and places tweak me at the time, only to rise in prominence later on.
Thanks for the conversation. Your post today triggered a bunch of interesting and fun thoughts.
BTW: If I were one of those kids, you can bet I would have made that decision EXTREMELY costly, and that's probably all I'll say on the matter.
Posted on March 13, 2010 - 06:15 PM # -
Republican neo-CONs have F'd up America over the last 40+ years. I wanna sue the GOP for $800 sextillion dollars! They might settle since sex is in the first part of the monetary value of the suit.... They don't this to turn into another sex scandal. The GOP can't handle many more of those...
Posted on March 14, 2010 - 01:07 PM # -
Something else that's important is... how does the girl feel about all this?! I doubt anyone here has done any research beyond reading the initially-linked article, but what are the chances that she is one of the only two openly lesbian girls in her town? (Or, the only one if her girlfriend and/or date doesn't want to be vindicated the same way she is.) How and/or will she receive moral support to continue as a human being? Who, if anyone else, will say they feel the decision is wrong who has the power to empower her as a human (beyond monetary value in the form of a lawsuit, if she so chooses), the same way other humans are empowered?
Posted on March 14, 2010 - 03:11 PM # -
Part of the this decision lays in the making an example out of someone motive. Punish all the kids because a (gasp) lesbian wants to attend the prom.
Posted on March 14, 2010 - 06:12 PM #
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