What I found totally bizarre is "the friend" who just popped up, dealing out some serious mud balls! Watched him on MSNBC last night and was just stunned! Can't figure him out at all.
Obama Administration Stays Away From Trayvon Martin Case(389 posts)
Posted on March 29, 2012 - 09:20 AM #
KW fyi a 'preponderance' is the evidentiary standard in a CIVIL trial,, 'beyond a reasonable doubt' is the more demanding CRIMINAL standard. Yes i knew about the bar incident, some sort of domestic battery has also been mentioned. Good point about restraint-- albeit i made very similar remarks earlier about Trayvon being the real beneficiary of the 'stand your ground' law, since we know Z was stalking him without authority much less a reasonable belief that Trayvon was involved in criminal activity.Posted on March 29, 2012 - 09:29 AM #
"What I found totally bizarre is "the friend" who just popped up, dealing out some serious mud balls! Watched him on MSNBC last night and was just stunned! Can't figure him out at all."
Can you elucidate? Many of us don't know what you're talking about.Posted on March 29, 2012 - 09:35 AM #
That stripe or stip on the back of his head is NOT male pattern baldness...I have male pattern baldness...and it never has looked like that ...
It looks like a scrape, an abrasion..surface wound..and it must have and reportedly was visible to a number of persons along the way..EMTs Cops in various places..and it would be fully documented in any medical treatments which Zimmerman has already attested to..and that in itself would be very easy to check on and probably already has been.
and yes..I dont know about the *mud slinging* that Missing wrote about either...Posted on March 29, 2012 - 09:57 AM #
"It looks like a scrape, an abrasion..surface wound..and it must have and reportedly was visible to a number of persons along the way..EMTs Cops in various places..and it would be fully documented in any medical treatments which Zimmerman has already attested to..and that in itself would be very easy to check on and probably already has been."
As someone who also has a MPB "blowhole," it looks more to me like a "whorl" of hair, rather than an abrasion, contusion or cut. IMHO, the picture quality is just too poor to be able to tell one way or the other, especially when you blow it up. If you could, please produce said documentation of his injuries. What I find more telling is his general overall appearance. Where are the signs of being in a fight? It looks like they picked him up out of his car or his house. And again, that's only my opinion, and we all know what that's worth.Posted on March 29, 2012 - 10:06 AM #
Well, in this case , it certainly might not be worth much dux....because...HIS HEAD IS SHAVED pretty close...looks a lot like the same haircut as the officer standing next to him doesnt it ? Ya, know those haircuts are pretty stylish on guys under the age of about 35 these days ...
Hard to have whorls of hair when you shave your head !!Posted on March 29, 2012 - 10:13 AM #
He definitely has more hair than the cops, but it is closely-trimmed. You also see one of the cops take a look at the back of Zimmerman's head, as well. It must not have been that serious, though, if no one decided to put a bandage or a dressing on it. None of the cops are showing signs of taking "blood precautions," either. No one is wearing gloves, so no one is worried about blood exposure. Still, I think people are missing the other aspect...Where's the grass and mud from a life-or-death fight?Posted on March 29, 2012 - 10:21 AM #
If he'd shown signs of major struggle, the cops at the scene would probably not have pushed to arrest him (as reported).
Does Z hold a real job? Who does he live with?Posted on March 29, 2012 - 10:34 AM #
Also note what this is classed as on the original Sanford PD report under the "offenses" section (p 7, I believe): "Homicide-Negligent Manslaughter--Unlawful Killing to Prevent an Unlawful Act" SPD originally classed this as a crime, then got called off by higher-ups.Posted on March 29, 2012 - 10:39 AM #
Male Pattern Gun Craziness
Republicans cringe over any story line leading toward this conclusion.Posted on March 29, 2012 - 10:55 AM #
No blood on his shirt or clothes clearly shows that the line on his head is not a gash.
A wound that large on your head would bleed like all get out.
Arrest and indictment are now certain. It's just a waiting game, now.Posted on March 29, 2012 - 12:18 PM #
His occupation is as a Mortgage Financial Counselor...I dont know who he works for...and i can imagine that company is trying hard to keep that information real discreet. Maybe he is self employed.Posted on March 29, 2012 - 12:27 PM #
"Slut" creates MSM firestorm. Tweeting home address to a mob, not so much. New Media forced Spike Lee's hand. Old Media covered it up.Posted on March 29, 2012 - 03:53 PM #
I think it's time for a new dodge on the dodge list.
Incomplete comparison. Leave out some basic thing, then frame the rest as something to be outraged over. False equivalence covers this, but I've seen this specific variation enough times to warrant highlighting it on it's own.
In this case?
Intent. That's the missing link between BS, and something that would otherwise make sense Dodger.Posted on March 29, 2012 - 08:14 PM #
That's why he's DODGEr!Posted on March 29, 2012 - 08:15 PM #
Judge Zimmerman appeared on tv--sort of, hiding like Alfred Hitchcock behind a screen for security, but also to prevent the watcher from judging his veracity--and provided a lurid account of death threats supposedly uttered by Trayvon in the moments before Georgie pulled his gun. The boy demanded to know what he wanted, Georgie meekly replied 'nothing'. oh sure. Fingering the gun under his jacket. Then came the brutal attack from the unarmed smaller kid, Georgie suddenly fighting for lhis life. Even though police backup was moments away.Posted on March 30, 2012 - 11:52 AM #
Evidence contrary to Zimmerman's account continues to mount including a new eyewitness.
The new witness claims he saw the neighbourhood watch captain walking away from the fatal altercation with no blood on him, countering Zimmerman's statement that he sustained a broken nose and bloody injuries to the back of his head.
The new witness recounted his version of events on CNN's Anderson Cooper 360 in a disguised voice.
"I saw two men on the ground, one on top of the other. I felt they were scuffling and I heard gunshots which to me were more like pops," he said. "I don't know if was an echo but it definitely made more than one pop.
"After the larger man got off there was a boy, obviously now dead, on the ground facing down. It was dark. I can't say I watched him get up, but in a couple of seconds or so he was walking towards where I was watching and I could see him a little bit clearer. It was a Hispanic man. He didn't appear hurt or anything else. He just kind of seemed very worried with his hand up to his forehead. I saw no blood."
In combination with the bloodless video released yesterday, I'd say the Judge's hearsay evidence is pretty weak.Posted on March 30, 2012 - 12:15 PM #
Must read article for anyone who has followed this case--The REAL Zimmerman is a domineering guy with an anger problem who has riled many people in his little shangri la. As a real estate guy he must know where the empty shacks are:
Zimmerman "....was fired from a job securing illegal house parties for “being too aggressive,” according to the New York Daily News, which quoted a former colleague of Zimmerman’s. According to the co-worker, Zimmerman worked for two agencies that provided security for house parties from 2001 to 2005.
“Usually he was just a cool guy,” said the former co-worker, who the newspaper didn't name. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When dude snapped, he snapped.” The Daily News said Zimmerman earned $50 to $100 a night for the parties. He was fired for being too aggressive with patrons.
“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”.....Posted on March 31, 2012 - 09:41 AM #
It's looking like the Zimmer is in deep doo doo....Posted on March 31, 2012 - 12:53 PM #
"Zimmerman worked for two agencies that provided security for house parties from 2001 to 2005."
He worked there the entire time, from age 17 to age 21?
Or the two agencies both started and ended their businesses in 2001 and 2005?
If the former, they tolerated his temper problems for a long time.
Has this information including work history been verified, or is it all based on the anonymous source?Posted on March 31, 2012 - 01:15 PM #
"Multiple suspensions paint complicated portrait of Trayvon Martin
BY FRANCES ROBLES
SANFORD, FLA. -- As thousands of people gathered here to demand an arrest in the Trayvon Martin case, a more complicated portrait began to emerge of a teenager whose problems at school ranged from being spotted defacing lockers to getting caught with a marijuana baggie and women's jewelry.
The Miami Gardens teen who has become a national symbol of racial injustice was suspended three times, and had a spotty school record that his family's attorneys say is irrelevant to the facts that led up to his being gunned down on Feb. 26.
In October, a school police investigator said he saw Trayvon on the school surveillance camera in an unauthorized area "hiding and being suspicious." Then he said he saw Trayvon mark up a door with "W.T.F" - an acronym for "what the f---." The officer said he found Trayvon the next day and went through his book bag in search of the graffiti marker.
Instead the officer reported he found women's jewelry and a screwdriver that he described as a "burglary tool," according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald.
Word of the incident came as the family's lawyer acknowledged that the boy was suspended in February for getting caught with an empty bag with traces of marijuana, which he called "irrelevant" and an attempt to demonize a victim.
Trayvon's backpack contained 12 pieces of jewelry, in addition to a watch and a large flathead screwdriver, according to the report, which described silver wedding bands and earrings with diamonds.
Trayvon was asked if the jewelry belonged to his family or a girlfriend.
"Martin replied it's not mine. A friend gave it to me," he responded, according to the report. Trayvon declined to name the friend.
Trayvon was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to the report. School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation.
A lawyer for the dead teen's family acknowledged Trayvon had been suspended for graffiti, but said the family knew nothing about the jewelry and the screwdriver.
"It's completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26," said attorney Benjamin Crump. "They never heard this, and don't believe it's true.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 01:56 PM #
F&B, for being such a pro life guy, I don't see why you are going out of your way to defend someone who killed an unarmed kid.
ZIMMERMAN SHOT TRAYVON DEAD.
I have no problem for the folks that are willing to withhold judgment until more info comes out. For me, I'm 100% certain that Zimmerman should be arressted right now. For those that are defending the killer, I have to ask, is it because of race or politics?
And, do you think OJ is innocent as well?Posted on March 31, 2012 - 02:04 PM #
I wouldn't go by anything from The Huffington Post. This is just part of these type sources trying to capitalize and sensationalize for attention. Uncle Mort get's sucked into these things pretty easily.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 02:07 PM #
I note in the news today that a bunch of black teens in California beat a lone Mexican kid senseless, that in another case some blacks wearing hoodies killed several individuals.
I wondered if there would be any threads started protesting this action. I thought sure a totally unbiased individual such as Vitalolgy would jump in with irate posts about these blacks conduct and what should be done to them, but alas, not a word. Get the picture that emerges?Posted on March 31, 2012 - 02:12 PM #
"F&B, for being such a pro life guy, I don't see why you are going out of your way to defend someone who killed an unarmed kid."
I'm not really "defending" him. I won't swear he's innocent. I just want to know all the facts, and I don't want to be persuaded by those who have an agenda and are spinning it one way or another.
We've been over this before, but 1) There was no way he could know he was unarmed and 2) Trayvon allegedly was going for Zimmerman's gun, so he soon could have been armed.
But I'm perfectly willing to accept the truth if it goes against Zimmerman.
On the other hand, Trayvon Martin was not an innocent 13 year old carrying a bag of candy. He very likely has engaged in criminal activity. No kid goes to school with a bag of valuable jewelry and a screwdriver, unless he's a thief.
And if he was a thief, he very well could have been acting suspiciously that evening and had been casing the neighborhood.
George Zimmerman had the right to be concerned about his neighborhood and to question someone who seemed to be suspicious. After that point, we don't know yet exactly what happened, and can only speculate.
"I have no problem for the folks that are willing to withhold judgment until more info comes out. For me, I'm 100% certain that Zimmerman should be arressted right now. For those that are defending the killer, I have to ask, is it because of race or politics?
And, do you think OJ is innocent as well?"
I think some of the push-back on this is because of all the insinuations about race. Note that some in the media called Zimmerman a "white" Hispanic. I've never heard that one. Why emphasize "white"? To gin up racial tensions? (Besides, he doesn't look white).
A special prosecutor is working on this so I'm willing to wait and see, and if she determines there is evidence for arrest and trial, I'm ok with that. I just want justice.
I thought OJ was guilty from day one, but not because of his race or the race of his victims. I never thought of him as being a "black man" but a "rich man" who had enough money to beat the system. But his defense "dealt the race card from the bottom of the deck," and got him off on that basis, even going so far as to redecorate OJ's home with pictures of black leaders, to unfairly influence the jury.
OJ should have been judged according to the facts and not according to racial prejudice or racial preference, and that should be the case with Zimmerman.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 02:33 PM #
Deane, spare me! Do you really expect any reasonable person to comment on every stupid crime that happens every day?
The reason this case has been sensationalized is NOT because a black kid was killed by a white hispanic.
IT'S BECAUSE THERE HAS NOT BEEN AN ARREST!
A 911 call telling him to not pursue, and then someone gets killed after that? Zimmerman started it. The shoot first law does not protect people that are armed with a gun, start a fight, and then kill that person because you felt threatened.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 03:25 PM #
There goes Deano, gotta change the subject and get back to his evil minorities script.and didn't read far enough to find out the Zimmerman source was really the NY Daily News. just lazy. Republicans care about protecting cops and gun owners and proppity owners and whites from blame esp where minorities are the victims. And a white gun owner in a gated community watch? Not surprising their attraction for fascism. Arranging and doing security for those illegal parties--what are they about unless lots of illegal drugs, minors drinking? Makes me wonder what else George arranged.
This really became a national story because of the CONTROVERSIAL STAND YOUR GROUND law, that supposedly shelded the perp from arrest despite the racial overtones.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 03:51 PM #
The gun owner is not "white." He's Hispanic.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 04:07 PM #
As I think I said earlier in the thread, the level of police corruption in Florida is quite high.
There may be three crimes here.
Manslaughter, racial harassment, and an attempted police coverup.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 04:16 PM #
>>>"IT'S BECAUSE THERE HAS NOT BEEN AN ARREST!"<<<
There are no grounds for an arrest at this point. Evidence may be forthcoming from a grand jury that there will be grounds for an arrest for something, but for now you vigilantes with the herd mentalities are going ballistic over hear-say, rumors and sensationalist news reports.
You're all as close to acting like an old fashion lynch mob as I've seen recently. Liberals can be a sickening bunch.
I stand by my original post.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 05:15 PM #
Nice spin, Deane. If there is anything close to vigilantism in this case, it belongs to the perpetrator of the crime, not those calling for justice.
It's odd that you consistently try to portray reality as a right winged fantasy where justice is only for white folks.
Pathetic on your part if I might say.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 05:21 PM #
Why are they calling a grand jury? Why not just phone up you liberal dudes from 4000 miles away and ask what the verdict should be?Posted on March 31, 2012 - 05:25 PM #
Most decent people see there is enough evidence for an arrest. that's what the police thought that night until someone up top decided to change the decision possibly because they're getting favorable consideration.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 05:33 PM #
You haven't seen anything. You've heard news reports.
Most decent people prefer a grand jury to vigilantes.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 05:36 PM #
I've heard the 911 calls that's all I need to hear.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 05:42 PM #
That figures.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 05:44 PM #
The 911 calls are an indisputable fact. He admitted to chasing Trayvon and was told not to continue to pursue. Zimmerman was the aggressor. Whatever happened after that is completely on Zimmerman.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 05:48 PM #
Seems to me there is no need for a trial here. Just send Vitalogy down with his rope.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 05:51 PM #
"Sir, we don't need you to do that."
There isn't anything that kid was doing that would require such a response. Now, if there was somebody in danger, some exigent circumstances kind of thing, I would be inclined to believe differently, but that is not the case.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 06:43 PM #
Stop yer whining and play the defense attorney Deane. Try thinking for yourself instead of assuming some crooked DAs who hang out with retired judges at the golf course in Florida will get it right. Some day it will dawn on you, this is a forum not a jury room.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 06:43 PM #
"Lynch Mob?" Check out some of the on-line commentary on The Blaze and other RWNJ websites. There are a lot of really scary people out that that seem to think that Trayvon Martin got what was coming to him.Posted on March 31, 2012 - 11:05 PM #
Horrible screams heard on cellphone are from dying Trayvon, say experts, not Zimmerman as he claims:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/31/trayvon-martin-shooting-911-call-screams_n_1394224.htmlPosted on April 1, 2012 - 04:36 AM #
No need for a trial, we can just read the true facts in the Huffington Post. Of course their passing a 3 or 4 year old photo off as if it were current doesn't hurt their credibility at all does it. I certainly don't see any wounds in the photo. Must be proof.Posted on April 1, 2012 - 04:44 AM #
Deane has no sources and no ideas. But no liberal ideas or sources have any value to him. He spouts the usual kneejerk script every time, without ever seeming to know more about this topic. Frankly Deane, you're a bore.Posted on April 1, 2012 - 05:09 AM #
I don't have any sources and neither do you. The difference is that I realize that and you don't. Listening to a 911 tape over the internet is hardly trial level research.
Zimmerman could easily be chargeable with multiple crimes, but you don't know that until all of the evidence is presented to a jury.Posted on April 1, 2012 - 05:39 AM #
Dig dig dig. A decent hole you got Deane. As holes go.
Meanwhile, from a good overview in Counterpunch, Alexander Cockburn: "Mary Cutcher was in her kitchen making coffee that night with her roommate, Selma Mora Lamilla. The window was open, she said. “We heard a whining. Not like a crying, boohoo, but like a whining, someone in distress, and then the gunshot,” she tells Anderson Cooper on CNN’s 360.
They looked out the window but saw nothing. It was dark.
They ran out the sliding glass door, and within seconds, they saw Zimmerman.
“Zimmerman was standing over the body with — basically straddling the body with his hands on Trayvon’s back,” Cutcher said. “And it didn’t seem to me that he was trying to help him in any way. I didn’t hear any struggle prior to the gunshot. And I feel like it was Trayvon Martin that was crying out, because the minute that the gunshot went off, the whining stopped.”
The two women said they could not see whether Zimmerman was bruised or hurt. It was too dark.
“Selma asked him three times, ‘what’s going on over there?’ ” Cutcher said. “He looks back and doesn’t say anything. She asks him again, “Everything OK? What’s going on?’ Same thing: looked at us, looked back. Finally, the third time, he said, ‘just call the police.’ ”
The women, one white and one Latina, tell Anderson Cooper flatly they don’t believe Zimmerman’s story of how Martin had suddenly attacked him, punched him in the face, broke his nose — and that when Zimmerman –larger than Martin – feels he’s being overpowered he pulls out the gun and shoots Martin through the chest. (Later Zimmerman declined medical attention.)...Posted on April 1, 2012 - 07:17 AM #
Than there's Zimmerman's neighbor's observations:
"The neighbor is talking for the first time about what he saw on George Zimmerman's face less than 24-hours after Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin.
"I saw George. He was banged up. His head had two big bandages, that weren't flat, had a bump on them," the neighbor, who did not want to be identified, said.
He described where the injuries were.
"I seen him have a big bandage on his nose and his nose swollen. On the side, where his eyes were at, it was swollen," he said.
He points out exactly where on a picture.
"I seen the bandage right here, and this side of his nose and this side of his nose was swollen."
Uncle Mort, you can post all of the nonsense you want to, but until the complete investigation, with sworn testimony, is presented to the grand jury, when everything has been presented in a coherent manner, we don't know the appropriate outcome and what indictments might be forthcoming.
All of this drivel "he's guilty, I saw the evidence on television, hang the son-of-a-bitch" is just more liberal crap, as usual.Posted on April 1, 2012 - 07:27 AM #
This is just part of these type sources trying to capitalize and sensationalize for attention. Uncle Mort get's sucked into these things pretty easily.
And you get sucked into the extreme right wing vacuum that is YOUR source. Deane, your the worst hypocrite on this board hands down and that says a lot since UF&UB lies through his teeth a lot....
Just sayin....Posted on April 1, 2012 - 10:24 AM #
Deane said>>>All of this drivel "he's guilty, I saw the evidence on television, hang the son-of-a-bitch" is just more liberal crap, as usual.
I guess experts don't matter to the extreme righties.... Deane knows this since he doesn't live in a fact based world.Posted on April 1, 2012 - 10:26 AM #
Here's a classic example of how you guys are getting sucked into believing whatever you want to believe.
The difference between the media edited version of what was said and what is alleged to be the actual transcript caste a significantly different mind set.
There's a huge difference between Zimmerman voluntarily saying "he looks black" and the dispatcher asking is he black, white or Hispanic and Zimmerman responding in answer to the 911 dispatcher's question "he looks black".
You guys can carry this nonsense along just as far as you want to but my position remains unchanged that until it's all sorted out by experts with all of the information and presented under oath, you're just flailing in the wind.
Vitalogy has the audacity to post that the 911 calls don't lie, but then we learn that NBC is now conducting an internal investigation as to how they got on the air as a lie. Just proves my point. You liberals are full of crap and hear what you want to hear and believe what you want to believe, then claim it as fact.Posted on April 1, 2012 - 11:04 AM #
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