» Politics and other things

New minimum wage in 2013

(33 posts)

  1. itsvern

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    I heard San Francisco is raising the minimum wage to $10.55!
    Oregon's goes up to $8.95. How high can it go?

    Posted on January 1, 2013 - 12:21 AM #
  2. Washington State is going up to $9.19.

    Posted on January 1, 2013 - 12:32 AM #
  3. RadioBuggie

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    Posts: 4,694

    Oregon's is LESS than Washington's?...


    Posted on January 3, 2013 - 09:22 PM #
  4. Naturally, Washington is higher than Oregon, witness the recent election.

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:18 AM #
  5. skeptical

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    Posts: 6,011

    Thanks to people like Skybill, they showed that kicking the government out things that private enterprises can do better, Washingtonians are paying far less for liquor than they did in the past!

    [insert favorite anti-government blowhard comment here]

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:41 AM #
  6. Brianl

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    "Thanks to people like Skybill, they showed that kicking the government out things that private enterprises can do better, Washingtonians are paying far less for liquor than they did in the past!"

    Skep, have you SEEN the taxation on liquor now? It's higher, and worlds more confusing.

    Last summer, mom and I went into the Costco in Spokane so she could get some stuff, including a bottle of Vermouth. It lists the sticker price, which indeed LOOKS lower. But then there's a chart posted about the taxation process. It's like three-pronged - the sales tax, a sin tax based on the value of the alcohol, and a bottle tax (again, based on the value of what you're getting. Couple bucks per, minimum). Total clusterfuck. I am summarizing as I remember it from last summer, but it's convoluted and confusing as all heck.

    Conversely, liquor stores in border towns in Oregon and Idaho are posting record sales. The liquor store in Post Falls, from what my cousin who lives there and knows the proprietor, is the busiest in the state of Idaho now.

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 03:49 AM #
  7. skeptical

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    I don't even drink. Maybe a Hieniken every now and then.

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 04:00 AM #
  8. The query “how high can it go” implies you (Vern) take issue with the decision.

    In your view is $8.95 unreasonable? Why? Detail, please.

    A part time employee working “full time” hours, and by design few employers schedule part time labor more than thirty hours a week, would make an annualized salary of $20,048.

    The minimum wage has generally not even kept up with inflation.

    I have no interest in arguing with the intractable about the issue yet again and will probably not bother to further in this instance, save to note that in my opinion a more equitable balance between the needs of an employee to provide for their family and exist above the poverty level and the needs of an employer to make a reasonable ROI and profit margin can probably be struck without crippling the U.S. economy. The balance is currently, overwhelmingly, ridiculously, not favoring the average worker.

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 08:34 AM #
  9. Read my latest blog on this topic:

    The minimum wage needs to be at the very least $10 dollars per hour nationally, but honestly more like $15/hr... if the lowest paid workers in our nation expect to get pay percentage rate increases as the highest paid "workers" in our nation have gotten the last 40 years. Wealth redistribution?! HA! That's already been going on for 40 years.

    Making the minimum wage = a living wage puts more buying power, more purchasing power in the hands of we the consumers, which will boost the local and national economies. Also it help once again establish a healthy middle class American Dream in our country, and helps curb the out-of-control income inequality and all of the symptoms that comes with inequality.

    Time to wake up people. Time to get active now. What are YOU doing to be constructive and not destructive?

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 11:03 AM #
  10. Jacob, where does that money come from?

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 11:08 AM #
  11. On cue, the intractable.

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 11:44 AM #
  12. edust1958

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    Posts: 1,484

    Deane... the money comes from those who pay for the services... the employer... if the market permits the employer to raise his/her prices, then those prices will go up and the end consumer will pay... if the market is truly competitive, the employer won't be able to pass on those costs and will have to take less CEO salary out of the company...

    SO if your argument is that prices will go up then you are arguing that the market is actually "broken" and the government needs to step in to re-establish a competitive market by actually enforcing anti-collusion and monopoly laws...

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 11:54 AM #
  13. Notalent

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    Posts: 2,412

    Starbucks coffee would be $10 and a beer at your local pub would be $9.

    The value meal items at McDonalds would have to be $4.

    So your $15/hr minimum wage would leave you right where you are in purchasing power.

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 11:56 AM #
  14. Well not so intractable..when you consider inflation...and it happens the minimum wage goes up , then eventually other wages go up..certainly when you profer up something like 15 dollars an hour.

    Now, I make 22.60/hour ...I am a public employee and represented by a union , so now the minum wage goes up to 15 from say union eventually gets a raise for me and my peeps..and certainly should based upon then...lets say I get just half the raise from 9 to 15..which is 3 $ / is that fair..then is that economically responsible w.r.t. our National certainly would be inflationary !

    The only way this wouldnt happen was if NObody but minimum wage earners got the 6/dollar an hour raise. But we all know that would not happen for long..over time suppression would discontinue..

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:04 PM #
  15. edust1958

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    Notalent... are you arguing that the market doesn't work for coffee, beer and fast food? If Starbucks coffee went to $10 a cup, the volume would drop as consumers flood other coffee vendors who manage not to pass on the increased labor cost -- perhaps by substituting capital investment for labor -- or by accepting a lower margin on each cup of coffee.

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:04 PM #
  16. What you may be overlooking is that while an individual employer may absorb the increase for a short time, in the long run everyone raises prices or lower services.

    I was mainly wanting to get Jacob to give us his views. It would help to understand how broad his view is on the subject and how much thinking he has put into it.

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:17 PM #
  17. Notalent

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    Ed, I'm making a bigger point actually but if every minimum wage employer was forced to pay $15/hr either prices would go up or employees would be replaced with vending machines/automation.

    Employers can't and won't take it in the ass in the interest of someone else's Marxist vision of equality. Not for long anyway.

    Once prices go up, the only way the minimum wage earner has available to avoid it being a zero sum is to stop consuming the products he makes or sells. Which would also be counter productive.

    Minimum wage is not now or never has been intended to be a living wage. it is an ENTRY LEVEL wage where skills are developed so one can move on up the income ladder.

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:22 PM #
  18. Yes, I know it sounds crazy... but I'm actually suggesting CEO's - Business Owners - and the wealthy alike get used to ONLY making about 20 to 100 times that of the amount of the lowest paid worker on their staff... Just like in the rest of the developed world that understands the dangers of inequality in society. The fact that currently an average American CEO makes several hundred times that of the lowest paid worker is wrong. The money has to come from some where indeed. I say end the American Billionaire. Once you have $999,999,999.99 you are taxed 100% for the good of our nation. Don't you want to protect our great country? Protect the freedoms we have? Protect our almost 300 years of progress moving forward? Or does the American Empire crumble internally? I know we lose by default if we do nothing and I'm content with losing in the end too, but at least I did my part and contributed to the side worth fighting for...

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:22 PM #
  19. So then CEOs wages would also constitute earnings for people like School District Superintendants...Asst Supers DEPT heads...Principals...Teachers (perhaps)..etc etc to cover the lower wage earners in and out of the system....dont just stop with private sector CEO , COO etc...

    You might be a bit short sighted here..

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:27 PM #
  20. I've been the associate producer and in-studio engineer for Thom Hartmann for four years, I just recently left the program to assist with family in Portland, my home. I operate my own independent nonprofit project called Filter Free Radio, which came as an inspiration from working in higher up levels of corporate media... why does everyone insist on speaking through filters? To maintain status quo, obedience to the corporate state, special interests who pay the way etc... I got tired of the game for "grown ups" really quick and I'm only 24 years old. I don't lean one way or the other, I don't want to be spun one way or the other. I want the truth. The actually honest truth based on informed observation of reality. We are all in this together, and the petty arguing, bs-ing, one-upping, and political discourse fighting means nothing when our country is gone, when we can't breathe the air or drink the water. You can't eat a dollar bill, well I bet you could but there's no nutritional value there and ultimately that diet is unsustainable... Just a couple of many thoughts... and this is ALL I think about... if you care to indulge...

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:29 PM #
  21. Jacob, in case you aren't aware, this is America. We are not a socialist nation. We are a nation of opportunity.

    If you don't like the minimum wage, then get a better job. Get smarter. Be more valuable. Don't expect the government to pass a law to give you more.

    Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your posting what you have. It's a viewpoint, you explain your thoughts well, and I respect that. My view just happens to be different and I express that, sometimes not subtly. It's just a discussion.

    BTW, your site looks interesting, but the gray on black type is all but impossible to read. Not enough contrast between the type and background.

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:30 PM #
  22. Let me also mention that this is merely the beginning of a conversation that I can continue for as long as you'd like...Just because I don't mention one particular piece of the massive puzzle in a post doesn't mean I haven't considered it, I'm simply typing my current thought. Less is more, right? So please don't consider any of these to be short-sighted for I consider myself looking much further ahead than most....

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:32 PM #
  23. OK...

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:32 PM #
  24. missing_kskd

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    Posts: 14,929

    Welcome Jacob. Stick around for a while so you are here when I get back to regular participation!

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:33 PM #
  25. I've been "here" for along time There's even a thread about the show I hosted awhile on KBPS. I've been very busy with life, work, family etc for a few years but it is very nice to be home again... not really nice looking for work again, but join the crowd, right?!

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 12:37 PM #
  26. I am aware this is America. America, a country where it's people are defined by an ideology, not defined by their blood line (unless you want to talk Native Americans, in which I'm 1/16th Cherokee, my great great grandmother was a full blood Cherokee from Franklin, NC and lived in the Smokey Mountains...) We are a nation of different ideologies with common themes, and of course there is always potential for opportunity... but the opportunities come about from the ideology. No two people are the same, think the same, or see the world the same because we are the sum of our experiences. We all experience the world differently, this is why empathy is so important. I think the history is pretty solid on the fact that certain ideologies change as time changes, for example when our nation was founded slavery was a great thing, that ideology has changed. Predetermined ideology therefore is a problem don't you agree? If you can't think practically or objectively because of an ideological label you give yourself, you have already lost the capability of reaching the ultimate solution. Oh and I'm a radio guy, not a computer/internet guy... thanks for checking out my site, I can update it but not change the color haha. I'd love to go back to school for some more history, political, philosophic, computer based education but I cannot afford to participate in the for-profit education system without amassing debt... thank God for public libraries funded by OUR tax dollars... sounds kinda socialist doesn't??? Maybe we should abandon all socialist public libraries, roads, bridges, fire departments, and the like?

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 01:04 PM #
  27. Jacob, you do indeed do some interesting writing.

    BTW, don't lament the lack of learning dollars, too much education is detrimental to your health.

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 01:09 PM #
  28. Yes a formal education is very important...but its balanced with the practical aspect of learning from the school of hard knocks..IMO..

    Back when I was getting an " education " at PSU, Portland , an 'older student"..( age about 32 ).. My major had me taking a lot of hard science..Chemistry, Physics, Biology etc..then balance with a minor in PSYC...but really several courses that ' taught ' me a bunch ( I needed some more credits from this College for graduation) ..which was totally yours truly..was a 300 level course in Ecology !! And the other one was a 300 level course in Evolution !!

    And as it turns out...after all was said and done..what has stuck with me and done me the most relative *good* all these years has been the Physics ( which I had a lot of before PSU) ..the Ecology and the Evolution... and the Psychology, to a lesser degree..

    The Ecology and Evolution has helped me understand my world relative to human/animal existence much better than before I took the courses. It also , believe this or not, resolved some issues I had with *religion*..interestingly *not* away from a religious inclination as one might expect, but TOWARDS an inclination relative to a spiritual belief..It gets deeper ,but I wont belabor the point..we dont have enough bandwidth and my fingers will get tired..

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 01:48 PM #
  29. edust1958

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    Posts: 1,484

    I agree with Missing and Deane.... please stick around for the discussions...

    I tend to agree with you, Jacob, that the dramatic differences between the high earners and the low earners and the "no earners" in the U.S. will likely be the death of this country. Over time the low earners either organize their labor so that they can raise their pay rates or they join the "no earners" and use their 2nd Amendment rights to take what they need by force. The trend towards "right to work" legislation only has the effect of making armed insurrection more likely as people are denied their right to freely assemble and collectively bargain.

    The elite earners in this country, the corporate masters who own the government, should applaud increases in the minimum wage... it helps to keep the masses suppressed... "bread and circuses"... a little more bread keeps them working in their low wage jobs and not out on the street organizing the revolution that this country may be facing...

    Posted on January 4, 2013 - 03:13 PM #
  30. RadioBuggie

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    Posts: 4,694

    This thread should be on CNN!!

    Posted on January 5, 2013 - 01:43 AM #
  31. NoParty

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    Posts: 11,870

    Deane said>>>
    (too much education is detrimental to your health.)

    spoken like a true CON

    Posted on January 5, 2013 - 02:14 PM #
  32. Trixter is up from his nappy poo.

    Posted on January 5, 2013 - 02:44 PM #
  33. NoParty

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    Deane! Your up by 1:44 in the afternoon? Take your Metamucil today?

    Posted on January 6, 2013 - 12:28 PM #

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