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KRKO Radio Towers toppled near Everett

(52 posts)
  • Started 5 years ago by Broadway
  • Latest reply from Skybill9

  1. Broadway

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    Posts: 2,595

    This is sad...these guys have been fighting for an upgrade for years and now this...

    http://www.kirotv.com/news/20723839/detail.html

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 09:48 AM #
  2. jr_tech

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    Posts: 4,042

    Ouch!
    What are these nut cases thinking.

    I heard this morning that the "station fire" in LA has been determined to be arson... These people will be facing murder charges, due to the unfortunate deaths of the two firemen.

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 10:48 AM #
  3. TALPDX

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    Seattle media is reporting that ELF left a sign at the site claiming responsibility.

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 12:17 PM #
  4. Alfredo_T

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    Posts: 5,210

    I saw a picture of the sign, but the story that went along with it said that authorities had not yet confirmed whether the perpetrators were associated with the ELF or whether the sign was intended to fool investigators. Has more information surfaced to confirm the authenticity of the sign?

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 12:27 PM #
  5. TALPDX

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    Posts: 420

    ELF has a history in the Puget Sound region (Woodinville Street of Dreams Fire, UW Fire). I’m not sure though it’s been confirmed that ELF is the true culprit of the tower takedown.

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 12:36 PM #
  6. Yes, ELF has taken responsibility, both through spokespeople and on their website.

    KOMO has the best photos I found.

    ELF's objection to the towers, by the way, is that AM radio causes cancer.

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 01:46 PM #
  7. Alfredo_T

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    Posts: 5,210

    The most beneficial act that these ELF people could perform on behalf of the planet would be to die. (Was that hate speech?)

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 01:54 PM #
  8. KE7JFF

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    Posts: 112

    Anyone else find it weird that Goat Mountain's 6 GHz microwave link used by Fischer and Meridith got vandalized as well?

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 05:36 PM #
  9. "...Fischer and Meridith..."

    AKA Fisher and Meredith.

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 07:57 PM #
  10. KE7JFF

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    Posts: 112

    Hey, I rarely need to spell those two companies names

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 08:10 PM #
  11. Notalent

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    Posts: 2,399

    BTW their whole basis of AM causing cancer is based on the study of a 5,000,000 watt MW station in Italy and residents who lived within the near field of that tower having a higher than average level of lukemia.

    That issue is far from being bonafide.

    Obviously nothing emitting from KRKO would ever come close to that level of RF exposure.

    Not even close.

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 08:20 PM #
  12. Alfredo_T

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    Posts: 5,210

    Damn! Even I wouldn't want to live in the near-field of a 5 megawatt AM broadcast transmitter (or even a 50-500kW one for that matter). Proper shielding and grounding to get almost anything electronic to work properly would be a nightmare, and my radio listening would be seriously hampered.

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 09:17 PM #
  13. There are a lot of neighbors sitting in the main lobe of a 50 KW in Boise. 1 to 30 VOLTS field strength. They don't seem to have any problems.

    The station was there first. And none seem to be DXers.

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 10:28 PM #
  14. Alfredo_T

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    Posts: 5,210

    Years ago, I was looking at a table of the OSHA permitted levels of RF exposure. On the AM broadcast band, the maximum allowable field strength was 625 volts/meter. I was left wondering where one would have to go to find a field strength that high!

    Posted on September 4, 2009 - 10:49 PM #
  15. hwidsten

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    Posts: 349

    The old KING-AM, KIRO-AM & KOMO-AM....all 50 KW AMs are all within about a mile of each other on Vashon Island, just off Seattle. Even in that environment the combined field strength was never measured that high.

    When Jim Kime and I first went to KING-AM, it had been operating on a "post card" from the FCC for almost 10 years due to problems with the 3 tower directional array. Most of the problem had to do with the interaction of the three stations mentioned above due to their close proximity to each others transmitter sites. It took almost another year, but the KING problem was resolved with help from KIRO engineers.

    These nutballs who took down the KRKO towers need to be in jail, and the sooner the better. The owners of KRKO have jumped through every regulatory hoop...national, local and environmental. They have done so with class and grace in the face of un-educated and misinformed people whose behavior has been demonstrated by this action. What do they have to do?....put 24 hour guards on their transmitter site?

    Posted on September 5, 2009 - 09:09 AM #
  16. Alfredo_T

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    Posts: 5,210

    Shortly after writing my previous post, I thought of one place where one could be exposed to low frequency fields (<1 MHz) in excess of 625V/m: while standing next to a Tesla coil. A fluorescent tube held in one's hand will glow under these circumstances. However, the exposure time is short because Tesla coils are generally used for demonstration purposes.

    Posted on September 5, 2009 - 11:10 AM #
  17. Since when did those nut-jobs in the ELF start caring about "property values"(in one statatement issued by the ELF). And from their "press office" you get this gem "...and that the signals have been interfering with home phone and intercom lines."

    Oooooo, that's enough reason to do what they did, not.

    Wasn't too long ago they were burning down new houses.

    Anyone used the RICO Act on them yet?

    Just found this about another tower toppled on the East Coast the same day!
    http://www.mcall.com/news/all-a8_5tower.7011612sep05,0,7619214.story

    Posted on September 5, 2009 - 11:32 AM #
  18. semoochie

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    Posts: 4,887

    I believe there are now 8 50kw stations on Vashon Island and they're still well within the limits!

    Posted on September 5, 2009 - 11:47 AM #
  19. ELF TAKES DOWN RADIO TOWER.

    A spokesman for the Keebler Elf Association of Bakers says that this move was necessary since the radio tower was interferring with phone and fax communications which happered their ability to fill cookie orders. Station owners have asked County for permission to cut down hollow tree housing bakery operations citing the tree as a bug infested rotting hazard that could injure someone should it fall during bad weather.

    Hearing set for October 1st.

    Posted on September 6, 2009 - 10:40 AM #
  20. Isn't this a federal crime? Once the FBI gets a hold of these idiots there will be room for them in prison.

    In the meantime, bump up the power a tad and see if you find them still in the seat of their D-5 Cat at dawn. Saves manhunt hours.

    Posted on September 7, 2009 - 09:14 PM #
  21. skeptical

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    Posts: 5,912

    Sorry, no room in federal prisons. All the vacant spaces are set aside for Bush administration employees.

    Posted on September 7, 2009 - 09:25 PM #
  22. RobP

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    Posts: 491

    Hmmm...I thought this was the RADIO board, not the politics forum. Guess we should wander over there if we want to discuss radio...

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 08:30 AM #
  23. "Hmmm...I thought this was the RADIO board, not the politics forum."

    The lower IQ folks sometimes wonder off the reservation.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 08:49 AM #
  24. Andy_brown

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    Posts: 6,440

    wander, not wonder.

    And all these years I thought Elf was a Blues-rock band founded in 1967 by singer and bassist Ronnie James Dio.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 10:59 AM #
  25. "wander, not wonder."

    I can actually type faster than I can think.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 12:16 PM #
  26. Alfredo_T

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    Posts: 5,210

    The first thing I think when I see the letters ELF is Extremely Low Frequency, referring to the range of frequencies from 3 to 30 Hz. This designator was commonly misused to refer to communications systems used to send messages to submerged submarines. These systems operated in the SLF frequency range; the US Navy ran a station that transmitted on 76 Hz, while the Soviet Union had an 82 Hz transmitter.

    Rather than using radio towers, these systems had multiple ground systems, spaced tens of miles apart (the US system had the ground systems spaced 32 miles apart and arranged in a configuration roughly resembling the letter "X"). These sites were built in locations with relatively poor ground conductivity, so that most of the current between the ground systems would be forced to flow deep into the earth. The result was a small one-turn loop antenna that very inefficiently radiated the signal. The effective radiated power of these systems was on the order of a few watts, with a driving power on the order of a megawatt.

    At the time that these systems were in operation, some people living near them had concerns about their environmental impact. Had the ELF been around when these systems were being built, I'm sure that they would have been in a tizzy over the "environmental damage."

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 12:41 PM #
  27. Andy_brown

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    Posts: 6,440

    Whereas there is no harm to the environment from non ionizing radiation, groups of the radical persuasion, extreme left or right, often base their justification in rhetoric and not fact. The government, on the other hand, will change the "facts" to suit their needs.

    For example, before Channels 73 - 82 were handed to land mobile (cell) phones the government changed the frequency of ionization from 1 GHz. to a quite higher cutoff frequency so as to minimize the outcry from conservation groups and the public in general when cell phones began drowning the landscape with .8, .9 and 1.2 GHz radiation. There is little to no proof that constant radiation at these frequencies is not harmful just because a cell phone is very low power. It's cumulative. Cell phones should come with a warning more reflective of the unknown amount of cumulative use that can cause illness. Constantly bombarding your head with microwaves can't be as benign as not bombarding your head with same. Keep your cell phone calls short.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 01:54 PM #
  28. Notalent

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    Posts: 2,399

    Holding a microwave transmitter to the side of your head for hours a day surely would seem to be more "dangerous" than being a few miles from a 50kw AM array.

    If ELF based their actions on science rather than rhetoric they would be downing cell towers rather than AM's.

    If ELF actually were aware of the science... IE power and wavelenth of broadcasts they'd be more interested in FM's and TV's than AM's.

    AM, having the lowest power and longest wavelenth of all broadcast mediums, seems to an illogical target unless of course this is all about the retoric and not the science.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 02:25 PM #
  29. Alfredo_T

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    Posts: 5,210

    On a related subject: was the Portland radio tower arsonist ever caught? This person's crime spree took place roughly in 2004.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 02:38 PM #
  30. Alfredo_T

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    Posts: 5,210

    Since TV/FM towers in many parts of the country today have antennas for several stations, the ELF potentially could have made a bigger impact (both in curtailing the emissions of RF and in impacting more listeners) by knocking down one of those. However, their goals in this attack seem to have been (1) for the vandalism to make headlines and (2) for them to be able to "justify" their actions with the study they cited.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 02:58 PM #
  31. Broadway

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    Posts: 2,595

    >>"justify" their actions
    also the fact that there is a 50kw 1520 AM diplex CP at the same site and KRKO 1360 AM power increase to 50kw from 5kw...was/is going to be RF city.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 03:36 PM #
  32. Notalent

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    Posts: 2,399

    Even with 100kw at the site it will still be miniscule when compared to the actual "study" ELF is citing to justify their actions... A 5,000.000 watt Radio Vatican medium wave site in rural Italy.

    This a matter of uninformed people acting on their lack of technical knowledge.

    Similar in legitamacy to the issue of towers killing migratory birds.

    I have been around towers for the last 30 years and have yet to see dead birds around any tower.

    These people just dont like towers, period. they will use any junk science they can conjur up to support their actions and goals.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 04:15 PM #
  33. Alfredo_T

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    Posts: 5,210

    The answer, of course, is to put up more and more towers! Radio antennas are a sign of intelligent life.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 04:17 PM #
  34. Alfredo_T

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    Posts: 5,210

    By the way, here you can read the abstract to the study: http://www.scribd.com/doc/11581378/Leukemia-From-Vatican-Radio- Note that in this study, no field strength data was available, making it somewhat questionable.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 04:22 PM #
  35. skeptical

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    Posts: 5,912

    Deane sez: "I can actually type faster than I can think."

    And your typing is painfully slow.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 04:22 PM #
  36. skeptical

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    Posts: 5,912

    Rob sez: "Hmmm...I thought this was the RADIO board, not the politics forum. Guess we should wander over there if we want to discuss radio..."

    Knocking down radio towers, isn't that political?

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 04:23 PM #
  37. skeptical

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    Posts: 5,912

    .

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 04:24 PM #
  38. Alfredo_T

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    Posts: 5,210

    If you primarily want to discuss the political tactics of the ELF, there is a thread titled "ELF" on the Politics side of the board.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 04:48 PM #
  39. This from All Access [Sept 8, 2009]

    ---------------------------------------------WAEB Tower Topples, Too----------------------------------------------

    After last week's eco-terror tower toppling at KRKO-A/EVERETT-SEATTLE (NET NEWS 9/4), yet another radio tower came down under suspicious circumstances, this time bringing down one of the towers at CLEAR CHANNEL Talk WAEB-A/ALLENTOWN, PA.

    The 350-foot tower in WHITEHALL, PA fell FRIDAY morning (9/4) after its guy wires were cut. WAEB has a five-tower array and is presently operating with four of the five towers.

    Accident Topples Florida AM Tower

    A third tower toppling this weekend took the tower of J&V COMMUNICATIONS Regional Mexican WTJV-A (FURIA MEXICANA)/DELAND, FL off the air FRIDAY, but the incident appears to have been an accident. The DELAND BEACON reports that a guy wire holding the tower up got snagged by a pickup truck in the high school football stadium parking lot surrounding the tower at about 9:55p ET

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 07:21 PM #
  40. Broadway

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    Posts: 2,595

    >>Radio antennas are a sign of intelligent life.
    don't think there has been anything more wisely said on pdxradio.com

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 10:27 PM #
  41. paulwalker

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    Posts: 4,140

    Yes, nice quote.

    On a side-bar, how about those calls, KRKO. I can't help believe that at some point there was an offer by the RKO chain to get those gems. But there they remain, in little Everett, WA.

    Posted on September 8, 2009 - 10:32 PM #
  42. Paul,

    KRKO gave up those calls and went to KBAE for awhile. Then the owner got put in jail for insurance fraud (stealing his own equipment and then filing an insurance claim). The next owner got the calls back, if my memory serves me correct, from a station in Alaska, for a price.

    Posted on September 9, 2009 - 08:33 AM #
  43. paulwalker

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    Posts: 4,140

    kjunguy, interesting. Thanks for that. Of course, WRKO famous in Boston!

    Posted on September 9, 2009 - 10:05 AM #
  44. semoochie

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    Posts: 4,887

    You would expect KRKO to be in Los Angeles but then, they probably didn't want to give up "KHJ"!

    Posted on September 9, 2009 - 10:33 PM #
  45. Andy_brown

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    Posts: 6,440

    "The 350-foot tower in WHITEHALL, PA fell FRIDAY morning (9/4) after its guy wires were cut. WAEB has a five-tower array and is presently operating with four of the five towers."

    I used to live in Coplay, PA when I worked at WSAN, Allentown and had to drive past the WAEB array (at the time their nighttime only site, now their 24hr site) on the way to WSAN which was in Whitehall, PA, close to the Allentown city line. At that time there was little development in the area, but a quick look at the satellite view on Google maps clearly shows the urban sprawl from Allentown reaching out and beyond.

    Whereas I have no sympathy towards Clear Channel, knocking down towers is a Federal crime and there are going to be some mighty unhappy environmental nutjobs when this recent spate of crimes is prosecuted in the courts.
    Of course, by the time that happens Clear Channel will probably be out of business, parsed out to a bunch of smaller groups whom all think they can make a dead dog do tricks.

    Posted on September 10, 2009 - 01:31 PM #
  46. skeptical

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    Posts: 5,912

    Woof!

    Posted on September 10, 2009 - 02:46 PM #
  47. Chico

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    Posts: 257

    Hello, gang. Brand new poster, but have been lurking here for years. I live about 5 miles south of the towers (and about a mile from where the ELF torched a bunch of new houses a couple years ago) and we have all been hearing lots of scuttlebutt re: the investigation. Take this with a pound of salt, obviously. The main thread seems to be that the ELF guy found this to be a really sweet target, and it has nothing to do with RF or any of that nonsense. It's just that there is record of a 9 year battle and a lot of political back and forth with the 1380/ 1520 project. Nobody is suggesting the homeowner's association funded this guy or anything...it's just that the ELF saw it as a really sweet opportunity to piggyback the political effort for their own agenda. And it doesn't hurt that there are a couple hundred property owners who weren't too sad to see the destruction.

    It's not like anyone called the cops all that quickly. Lots of escape routes. Equipment already on the premises. Crime of opportunity.

    Of course, the rest of the community is now supporting Andy a LOT more than before. Picking on a local owner was really dumb...he's getting more advertising for the next 10 years from this!

    Morons. BTW, the housing project they torched was the most environmentally progressive ever built in WA state. Great target, idiots.

    Posted on September 11, 2009 - 06:09 PM #
  48. jr_tech

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    Posts: 4,042

    KRKO is HD? From Hillsboro, I see a blinking HD indicator on 1380kHz and the call letters have been displayed. No HD lock in, however.

    Posted on September 11, 2009 - 07:26 PM #
  49. This is proof RF is harmful?
    http://www.krud.com/toon156.html

    Sorry about that

    Posted on September 19, 2009 - 08:49 PM #
  50. Andy_brown

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    Posts: 6,440

    RF will make you crazy, not sterile.

    Posted on September 20, 2009 - 10:23 AM #

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