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KEX on 102.3

(78 posts)
  • Started 3 years ago by field_strength
  • Latest reply from Craig_Adams

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  1. Just noticed.

    Posted on March 30, 2011 - 04:42 PM #
  2. jr_tech

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    99 watts on Mt. Scott is not exactly melting my antenna* out here in the sticks (Hillsboro)... I think KXL won the first round

    *KEHK (Brownsville) is stronger at my location.

    Posted on March 30, 2011 - 05:10 PM #
  3. It's probably a knee-jerk reaction to KXL's move. Some presence on FM is better than none.

    Posted on March 30, 2011 - 05:23 PM #
  4. jr_tech

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    I suspect that even this will be helpful to downtown listeners. To my (tin) ear it sounds like they need to tweek the processing a bit to take advantage of the FM signal.

    Posted on March 30, 2011 - 05:37 PM #
  5. The 102.3 KEX translator was in the works, before anyone knew that KXL was moving to FM. Now they just need to move it to Skyline.

    Posted on March 30, 2011 - 07:35 PM #
  6. jr_tech

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    "Now they just need to move it to Skyline"

    And crank up the power about 1000 X !

    Posted on March 30, 2011 - 08:17 PM #
  7. Alfredo_T

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    If the main goal of the 102.3 translator is to allow KEX to be heard by people in steel-reinforced buildings, wouldn't it make sense to locate the transmitter on a downtown Portland rooftop, instead? Downtown, there is a high concentration of people who live and work in buildings that attenuate AM broadcast band signals. Near Mt. Scott, the 1190 kHz is pretty strong, and there aren't that many big office or apartment buildings.

    Posted on March 30, 2011 - 09:26 PM #
  8. Skyline would be the ideal location for 102.3. Of course, no matter where they stick it, Eugene's KEHK will interfere with the translator, south of Wilsonville.

    Posted on March 30, 2011 - 11:36 PM #
  9. semoochie

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    Perhaps, the plan is to cover the shaded area east of Mt Scott, so it will already be there when they put in an FM.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 12:46 AM #
  10. K272EL FCC File, 34 watts:
    http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?list=0&facid=149924

    View coverage map on recnet. ERP 99 watts:
    http://cdbs.recnet.net:8080/fmq.php?call=K272EL

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 12:56 AM #
  11. semoochie

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    They're operating with the construction permit, which is 99 watts.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 01:03 AM #
  12. Maybe it's just my radio/antenna, but 102.3 KEX seems to be coming in and dropping out. From a faint translator-ish signal to a booming full-power.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 01:07 AM #
  13. For prospective, it should be noted for future readers on this thread, KEX began its FM simulcast March 30th, just 15 days after KXL, which happened on March 15th.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 01:23 AM #
  14. Shaded area east of Mt Scott?

    I didn't think the shading was that much of an issue out there.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 02:47 AM #
  15. semoochie

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    Mt. Scott is as tall as the west hills. There are areas blocked by the mountain, that could be helped by a low power transmitter situated on it.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 03:21 AM #
  16. Pat

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    Posts: 393

    "Skyline would be the ideal location for 102.3. Of course,"...

    Not Necessarily, I worked for nearly 20 years at a location in downtown Portland and I found that stations coming from Skyline or Sylvan are much harder to receive than those stations coming from Stonehenge or Mt. Scott.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 05:50 AM #
  17. Notalent

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    The possibility exists that Alpha caught wind of KEX planning this and killed KUFO to simulcast KXL as a pre-emptive move.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 08:11 AM #
  18. fm_dxer

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    Hopefully the move accelerates the AM IBUZ turn off.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 09:20 AM #
  19. Rumors of AM radio's demise due to higher and higher noise levels have been tossed around for years, but the day a powerhouse like KEX needs a peanut whistle FM translator to fill in coverage is the day we can safely say "AM radio is dead."

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 09:22 AM #
  20. motozak3

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    Are they running a stereo pilot/subcarrier?

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 11:43 AM #
  21. Alfredo_T

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    No-102.3 is monophonic.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 11:52 AM #
  22. semoochie

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    KSL has been running a simulcast for years but continues to run in HD on AM.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 12:24 PM #
  23. Pat

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    Posts: 393

    In San Francisco, KCBS AM and FM (KFRC-FM) are both HD (or IBOC). 106.9 HD-2 is Oldies, while HD-1 is KCBS.
    I think KEX had/has the right idea, but they need a signal like 93.5 or 94.3 which both reach down into Salem and in Polk and Yamhill Counties. The station that is really loosing out here is KPAM, which is the station that could really use a boost via FM.

    Not only does music sound much better on FM, we seem to have discovered that talk sounds better as well. KXTG started something with Sports, at least in Oregon, as you can go all the way from Portland through Northern California now and hear sports stations on FM. Heck, even KZEL is now carrying the Oregon Ducks games (while still on KUGN).

    I think the time is ripe for the FCC to expand the FM band either up or down (or both) to add more frequencies and put a ban on any more AM stations. What say you??

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 01:55 PM #
  24. Bigpuppy

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    Scott posits above that AM is dead. Boy, in this market, it seems like a landslide going on. My own AM use consists of seeking out the hourly net newscasts, because they're oddly better than NPR's hourlies, with more immediacy and more action, and the traffic's better. I've been checking out 101.1 for that purpose, though there's something off about the mix, lots of jumpy little elements that work better on AM. Now I'll have to go find 102.3. And since Sunny won't be around for my Vickie Carr fix, why would I bother with AM at all?

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 02:29 PM #
  25. Alfredo_T

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    I hope that there are AM stations on the air 'till the day that I die--that's what I say!

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 04:00 PM #
  26. ...why would I bother with AM at all?
    1450 KBPS, outside the hours of "Kid Rhythm Radio."
    Or 94-7 HD2 on 910 AM. Realize neither are the same format as Sunny 1550, but they're definitely worth a listen.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 08:10 PM #
  27. I can't hear KEX-FM where I live at all! I'm up against the West Hills on the Beaverton side so the signal goes right over me! Went into Beaverton. It's fuzzy but good enough the listen. Heard it out to Bethany but by then it's getting bad with fade outs.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 08:31 PM #
  28. jimbo

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    Works fine in Gresham. There are dead spots/nulls at night on 1190AM FM102.3 works just fine. I can hear it in my office with 5 RF noisy computers running.

    I think KEX/1190 HD sounds better than the FM, though. At least in the car.

    Posted on March 31, 2011 - 11:58 PM #
  29. Alfredo_T

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    The 102.3 translator has a stronger signal out at my house in Hillsboro than KQSO-LP 102.9. However, 102.3 suffers more multipath problems than KQSO in the car.

    Posted on April 1, 2011 - 12:31 AM #
  30. semoochie

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    I meant to mention this but don't think I have. They're promoting the FM translator on KEX, the website AND their sister stations! I thought any reference would be limited to casual mentions for people in downtown office buildings but that's not the case. "I worked for nearly 20 years at a location in downtown Portland and I found that stations coming from Skyline or Sylvan are much harder to receive than those stations coming from Stonehenge or Mt. Scott." Was that before or after they started using "beam tilt"?

    Posted on April 3, 2011 - 04:15 PM #
  31. This from All Access:

    ----------------------------------------KEX Adds FM Translator Simulcast----------------------------------------

    In response to crosstown ALPHA BROADCASTING Talk KXL-A/PORTLAND adding an FM simulcast on the former KUFO, CLEAR CHANNEL Talk KEX-A/PORTLAND has added an FM translator simulcast on K272EL at 102.3 FM. The move puts KEX, at least within the coverage of the 99-watt translator, next to KXL (at 101.9) on the FM dial.

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 07:12 AM #
  32. next to KXL (at 101.9)
    I think they mean 101.1?! I'm glad I don't have a heart condition when I read that the first time.

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 08:14 AM #
  33. Pat

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    Posts: 393

    All Access never seems to get things right. A couple of weeks ago they had KOPB-AM 1600 as a Portland station.
    Also, the FM translator for KEX has been in the works for months, maybe even a year by now. It is not something they just threw up there because of KXL.

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 10:28 AM #
  34. JBM

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    So, if KEX is limited to 99 watts on a construction permit, what will the power output be once it's fully operational?

    Last night I tuned in on the way home from the airport on 205, and the signal wasn't bad. At home in Tualatin, I had to play with the FM whip antenna on my Sony ICF-2010 to get a decent signal. KXL 101.1 comes in just fine without horsing around with the antenna, so if they do boost the output at some point the 102.3 signal should be just fine.

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 11:09 AM #
  35. jr_tech

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    99 Watts... it *is* fully operational! KEX... the BIG one!
    The CP was to take K272EL from 34 Watts to 99 Watts.

    For FM, try something more modern than a 2010... I love mine for MW and SW, but the FM band performance has been surpassed by many more modern receivers, such as the Eton E-5/Grundig G-5, Tecsun PL-600, Kaito KA-2100 (also sold as C.Crane SW), Kaito 1103 (an ergonomic nightmare but great radio and cheap).

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 11:32 AM #
  36. Andy_brown

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    As far as moving 102.3 to the West hills and/or filing for more than 99 watts, I would like to show
    some of the considerations:

    First, they are only allowed to operate inside the KINK 60 dBu contour by waiver.

    http://tinyurl.com/3bck3uj

    Of course, Alpha could allow themselves to be potentially interfered upon by one of
    their own stations, (see http://tinyurl.com/3o38bls ) but there is also an IF conflict
    with KOPB at 91.5 MHz. (10.8 MHz. separation) that is already less than it should be
    if they were to go from 99 watts to 100 watts or more.

    74.1204
    (g) An application for an FM translator or an FM booster station that is 53 or 54 channels removed from an FM radio broadcast station will not be accepted for filing if it fails to meet the required separation distances set out in §73.207 of this chapter. For purposes of determining compliance with §73.207 of this chapter, translator stations will be treated as Class A stations and booster stations will be treated the same as their FM radio broadcast station equivalents. FM radio broadcast station equivalents will be determined in accordance with §§73.210 and 73.211 of this chapter, based on the booster station's ERP and HAAT. Provided, however, that FM translator stations and booster stations operating with less than 100 watts ERP will be treated as class D stations and will not be subject to intermediate frequency separation requirements.

    http://tinyurl.com/3dxl24n For 100 watts or more, a translator is considered a class A.
    The minimum separation to KOPB C0 should be 25 km and is only 18. So going more
    than 99 watts would subject them to above. As a Class D at 99 watts they are not subject
    to the IF spacing rule. You can see the chart at 73.207 doesn't include Class D's.

    http://tinyurl.com/42vroph

    So if they were willing to accept interference from the translator upon KINK AND
    were willing to deal with complaints from KOPB for putting a 99 W Class D so close
    to their main service transmitting antenna, so far I can't find any other rules in the way.
    However, I haven't done an exhaustive search, so there might be some other reasons.

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 12:43 PM #
  37. semoochie

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    If they were a Class A, they'd have to be a fourth adjacency. That pretty well kills it!

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 12:53 PM #
  38. Pat

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    Posts: 393

    Clear channel would be better off if they blew up Z100 (yes, I know their supposedly #2)and put KEX-FM right next to KXL-FM.

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 01:31 PM #
  39. semoochie

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    Posts: 4,794

    That would be a great idea if the station name hadn't been completely connected to its dial position for 27 years! I'd say moving it is totally out of the question!

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 02:09 PM #
  40. jr_tech

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    Posts: 3,996

    I assume that Clear Channel owns the max number of stations that they are permitted in the area... so they can't purchase one of the possible move-ins?

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 03:06 PM #
  41. Yes, Clear Channel is at their ownership cap for FMs in this market.

    "Of course, Alpha could allow themselves to be potentially interfered upon by one of their own stations"

    Wrong...KEX is a Clear Channel station, not Alpha. So Alpha would likely object to a 102.3 move to the West Hills because of potential interference to KINK. They would have to get in line with KOPB to file the complaint.

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 04:14 PM #
  42. jr_tech

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    Wouldn't there be less potential for interference if 102.3 co-located with KINK & KOPB at the Skyline site?

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 04:28 PM #
  43. Andy_brown

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    Posts: 6,091

    Probably not. It's two different problems so I'm thinking it's more of a multiplicative effect as opposed to an additive one. I've only done about a dozen interference studies, so I'm thinking that moving closer to the West Hills brings the area of potential interference right along with it. Where one of the issues might improve, the other might degrade. ACI or IF IMD ? Take your pick.

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 05:00 PM #
  44. Thanks for the links Craig, but this whole 102.3 stinks.

    Since May, 2010 WAY-FM out of Colorado filed for the construction permit that will expire in 2014. It wasn't until 2/19/11 that KEX official agreed to broadcast on the "Construction" license.

    If this was going to be Clear Channel all along, then is WAY-FM just a shill for Clear Channel.

    Deceit in the licensing industry continues.

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 06:20 PM #
  45. semoochie

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    NO, WAY-FM is a huge, national Christian broadcaster!

    Posted on April 4, 2011 - 10:42 PM #
  46. 93.5, 102.3, and 104.5 are now at 99 watts. Could someone explain why 95.9 and 107.1 are still at 19 and 28 watts?

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 12:24 AM #
  47. jr_tech

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    There are different power rules for "booster" transmitters used to "fill in" within the main stations protected contour and "translator" transmitters that rebroadcast more distant stations. 93.5 102.3 and 104.5 are clearly "booster" transmitters.

    95.9 is clearly being used as a translator.

    107.1 is more complicated, but was originally licensed as a translator for 103.7 (Albany?). Right now it *is* being used as a "booster" for KMHD HD-2, but that could change after KZME is completed, since the protected contour of KZME barely reaches Gresham.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:47 AM #
  48. semoochie

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    A "booster" retransmits on the same frequency as the main signal and its coverage area is entirely enclosed within the main station's 60dbu contour.

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 10:59 AM #
  49. missing_kskd

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    Seconding Alfredo's post.

    I have a great AM experience every day!

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 11:00 AM #
  50. jr_tech

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    "A "booster" retransmits on the same frequency as the main signal and its coverage area is entirely enclosed within the main station's 60dbu contour. "

    OOPS! so is just "fill in" the proper term for off frequency or different mode (am vs fm) transmitters within the protected contour of the main station?

    Posted on April 5, 2011 - 11:07 AM #

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