I see that 106.7 KLTH and 107.5 KXJM have their HD signals on. And KXJM has an HD2 as well, with what sounds like a soft R&B format.
Posted on June 3, 2010 - 08:27 PM
#
feedback.pdxradio.com
Portland radio, the world & beyond
feedback.pdxradio.com » Portland Radio
HD on 106.7 KLTH and 107.5 KXJM
(95 posts)-
-
Kent: Can you find out when KXJM-HD2 & KLTH-HD1 went on the air? Matt already reported KXJM-HD1 as beginning on June 2nd.
Posted on June 3, 2010 - 08:31 PM # -
Just got off the phone with Clear Channel-Portland Director of Engineering Chris Weiss. KXJM HD1 came on yesterday, and KXJM HD2 and KLTH HD1 came on today. KLTH HD2 should be on tomorrow.
Both HD signals are still in the test mode, waiting for some parts to arrive. KLTH is at less than 1/10th of the power that they will eventually run, and KXJM is at less than a third.
Both stations are running Nautel NV20 transmitters, which are capable of 6 kW of HD, into a separate input of the combined antenna. Clear Channel engineer Shawn Cupples texted that he's "...unbelievably impressed with these Nautel transmitters so far."
Posted on June 3, 2010 - 10:13 PM # -
Great!
I'm feeling good to be on top of this kind of event because as you know after a week or so, personnel forget dates.
Posted on June 3, 2010 - 10:36 PM # -
Now Alpha needs to get HD going.
Posted on June 3, 2010 - 11:26 PM # -
I'm glad to hear that 107.5 HD2 has brought Urban AC back to Portland. Now, I'm hoping that 106.7 HD2 will feature a 60's Oldies format.
Posted on June 4, 2010 - 01:03 AM # -
I also need the corporate names of these new HD format channels.
Posted on June 4, 2010 - 01:50 AM # -
Right now KLTH is giving me the HD light but it's not locking yet.
KXJM sounds great. This is one station I've gotten annoying crunch from their analog signal at work but now I'll listen to it. The R&B format on the HD-2 is fun too.
Posted on June 4, 2010 - 09:59 AM # -
The official name on the KLTH HD2 will be Real Oldies. It should be running before 5pm. We're still working to set up logs for the KXJM HD2. Right now it is just running fill material. KXJM is running at -14db. KLTH is running about -23db. We're still waiting for the higher power RF circulators to arrive. We may take KLTH up to -20db later today, but don't want to push too much into temporary connections.
I'll get updates here when we increase to -14db on KLTH, and hopefully, eventually, -10db on both stations. It will be interesting to see how this antenna system performs compared to the other systems being utilized in the market. So far, KXJM HD coverage is better than our Skyline signals down on Macadam.
Posted on June 4, 2010 - 12:10 PM # -
I can definitely hear the changeover between the IBAC primary and the analogue signals on KXJM--the IBAC version is a bit quieter than the analogue version. (Could this just be a quirk in the decoder [among many others] in my little Insignia rig?) Timing seems to be perfectly in line tho--no stuttering or echo or anything like that.
Right now on the secondary, they are playing Zapp & Roger's "Computer Love". ;o)
Posted on June 4, 2010 - 01:27 PM # -
Thanks Chris!
Posted on June 4, 2010 - 03:40 PM # -
KLTH HD-2 is on the air, everybody!
Or it was for a couple of minutes anyway. Ignore me...
Posted on June 4, 2010 - 04:19 PM # -
Nautel is really taking a leadership role in transmitter design for both AM and FM analog and HD. Although their plant is in Canada, they have a big parts depot in the US and great support.
Posted on June 4, 2010 - 07:04 PM # -
I will be heading to Portland today to listen to the new HD signals. Hopefully, 107.5's analog processing will be cleaned up so it won't sound as squished and distorted as it's been sounding over the past couple of months.
Posted on June 5, 2010 - 12:37 AM # -
From the Today in history:
"and it will be an "older" Oldies format. The stream is already running here in the building, and it looks pretty cool. Wayne's World should be thrilled! If only he had an HD radio, he'd be able to hear both Smooth Jazz, and first decade oldies on HD-2 channels. "I listened to KLTH-HD2 from 9-9:30 this morning. Heard one announcer say "Real Oldies". Most everything I heard was not the first decade oldies (I am assuming that means of R&R). It was pretty much all mid-late 60's with a '70's thrown in.
Doesn't really sound much different than what is on the main channel, although I could be wrong from a 1/2 hour sampling. Just a perception.
Posted on June 5, 2010 - 09:47 AM # -
I can only listen in the car. They identify as 50s & 60s and I only heard one 1970 song after about the third trip. For an example, I heard Gene Pitney followed by the Orlons. I'm hearing things that don't get much play anymore like Sonny & Cher's version of "What Now My Love". They played a Beach Boys jingle into "Do You Wanna Dance?". Give it 3 songs in a row and I think you'll have a different opinion.
Posted on June 6, 2010 - 12:34 AM # -
I listened 9-9:30AM continuously and heard only one that would be 50's and one that would be 70's...the rest were 60's.
I, also, can only listen in car and listened again this evening about 7:45-8PM, driving from Sandy to Gresham. It was different and probably more like what you noticed. Actually, it was a decent mix and I was liking it but it kept cutting out. Right in the middle of good songs. It would be out with no HD signal at times but HD-1 was always on. Perhaps they were doing adjustments or those groups of trees were blocking the signal, I don't know. It was hard to listen. Noticed the same thing during the AM. I'll try in the morning about 8:15 -8:45, again. Driving down 43 from Portland to West Linn.Posted on June 6, 2010 - 01:54 AM # -
chrisweiss June 4th: "KLTH is running about -23db. We're still waiting for the higher power RF circulators to arrive. We may take KLTH up to -20db later today, but don't want to push too much into temporary connections."
Posted on June 6, 2010 - 02:43 AM # -
I'm sure the dead spots were caused by them tweaking the system. I get the same thing. For one thing, when it starts again, the song is in the same place where it dropped out. If it had been a reception problem, I don't think the HD1 would lock either.
Posted on June 6, 2010 - 02:56 AM # -
Yes, I noticed that it usually started at the same spot. When it disappeared, it lost HD lock but going back to HD1, that would be locked. Sometimes, going back to HD2 wouldn't have the lock light at all, sometimes just flashing. I just figured that most was due to tweaking. Sometimes, HD1 would lose lock, also. Usually around a bunch of trees or behind hills (Rocky Butte).
Posted on June 6, 2010 - 04:46 AM # -
I know that "Real Oldies" is on the "iheartradio" iPhone app. Is this the same stream as KLTH-HD2? Is there a similar stream for KXJM-HD2?
Posted on June 6, 2010 - 01:21 PM # -
Losing signal strength behind Rocky Butte is a common problem. Whether or not more power will alleviate that situation is anyone's guess.
Posted on June 6, 2010 - 02:35 PM # -
And I have that problem when going on I-84 between 102nd and appx 122nd with most FM-HD signals. The only place I lose lock on KEX is in Gresham on Hogan and Palmquist area next to the 1230/1010 tower for a couple blocks. Otherwise, they are solid throughout Portland. Of course, they knock out everything when driving past their towers on I-205 on some radios.
No KLTH HD-2 today.Posted on June 6, 2010 - 04:13 PM # -
It's my opinion that these problems will prevent digital radio from taking off. Digital TV has the same problem, even with stationary antennas (in the house). You either have the signal or you don't. I would rather have some snow or white noise and decide I still wish to be tuned in, instead of having the technology decide for me if I can hear the next ten seconds or not.
My father has a top of the line BMW with the latest sattelite radio, and he tends not to tune it in because it is impossible to listen to a signal that cuts completely out when not perfect.
If only the digital tuners had some tolerance for a bit of noise or weak signals like analog tuners. Oh well ...
Posted on June 7, 2010 - 07:39 AM # -
They DO have tolerance, down to the point where the signal starts to break up.
Posted on June 7, 2010 - 10:34 AM # -
When I lived on the outskirts of the Portland area, it used to be very easy to point even an indoor antenna due South and pick up at least KVAL 13 and KOAC 7, if not some of the other Eugene market channels and Salem-area translators.
Posted on June 7, 2010 - 04:51 PM # -
I'd picked up KVAL back in the late 60's before KPTV's 7am sign on and would watch "The Today Show". I remember once or twice getting it almost as clear as a Portland station in full color. Loved watching the show on KVAL because during the period KGW would cut away for local news, KVAL would carry the cast sitting around telling funny inside stories.
Posted on June 7, 2010 - 05:19 PM # -
Yes Semoochie, some tolerance.
The problem is that with digital, you either get a perfect program or NOTHING.
And I would like to decide for myself if the signal is high enough quality to listen to, not rely on the technology to decide for me.
Posted on June 7, 2010 - 08:48 PM # -
You get the signal down to the point where there isn't enough information to construct an image. If it were analog, you would have given up long before that! It seems like the only other thing to do is to have an analog backup and then, you either get into extra bandwidth or end up with IBOC for TV.
Posted on June 7, 2010 - 11:55 PM # -
As I drove through Portland, Monday morning, I noted that 106.7 HD2 was not broadcasting. 100.3 HD1/HD2 was also off the air.
Posted on June 8, 2010 - 02:26 AM # -
radiogeek: My sentiments exactly. I've had to deal with plumbers who felt that way. I have an 85-year-old house with some plumbing fixtures that are so odd that they can't be replaced with a run to the hardware store. The plumber I used to use all the time was the local gold standard. But they didn't understand when I said that I don't have to have things perfect--just make things good enough until I can afford to go all the way. I'm almost 60 years old, and I liked BCB DXing, but even that's hard to do anymore with digital tuners.
Posted on June 8, 2010 - 08:36 AM # -
I've been running with my Insignia portable everywhere and I haven't had any drop outs. I regularly run on the path along I-205 that's directly behind Rocky Butte and KYCH HD-2 hasn't dropped out ever. I've also run along Halsey in the neighborhood with Glendoveer golf course as far east as 148th with no drop outs. I've been very surprised. I'm literally running around trying to find places where the signal should fade but I haven't had any success yet.
If I listen to an analog FM station while running, I always get fuzz and fading in certain spots. With HD stations the reception is so perfectly consistent that I feel like I'm running with an MP3 player on my arm.
Posted on June 8, 2010 - 09:13 AM # -
I have heard the newer chip sets that are in the Zune HD and the Insignia units hold onto the signal a lot better because they were designed for devices that are moving around alot.
Posted on June 8, 2010 - 09:46 AM # -
If anyone has any more suggestions for places to run to with my Insignia, let me know.
I did find that it didn't work very well in the Key Arena in Seattle. I suspect reception in the Rose Garden must be about as bad.
Posted on June 8, 2010 - 10:15 AM # -
Not a place... but how about KNRK or perhaps KQAC on the same run? These stations have the lowest digital power in the area. I still get regular HD dropouts around Hillsboro on KNRK. KQAC is better now.
Posted on June 8, 2010 - 10:25 AM # -
I can't get KQAC or KMHD on my Insignia at work but naturally the Sony F1HD with the cheap wire dipole gets everything. KNRK has not been a problem with either receiver.
I'm concentrating on KYCH around town because they're one of the four highest power digital stations and I'm more interested in what coverage decent power can provide. I'm not so interested in seeing what coverage low power provides. Of course it's going to be less.
Also KYCH's "Funkytown" is more fun to run to than classical or jazz.
Posted on June 8, 2010 - 01:53 PM # -
KKCW-HD2 was also off today.
Posted on June 8, 2010 - 05:43 PM # -
I was at Ft. Stevens yesterday and received an HD signal from KIRO-FM.
Posted on June 8, 2010 - 05:45 PM # -
What's this about KYCH running higher power? KQAC switched to the standard 6db increase albeit at a lower starting point than the higher power stations. KLTH will eventually be the strongest in town, going with a 10db increase as will KXJM but with lower power. I thought I heard something about KFBW. Those are the only ones I've heard anything about.
Posted on June 8, 2010 - 08:04 PM # -
Trivia: The Fort Stevens telegraph station had the calls WUK by June 1913.
Posted on June 8, 2010 - 08:53 PM # -
Now that I've spent some time listening to 107.5 HD2, I can confirm that the format isn't actually Urban AC. I would classify it as Rhythmic Oldies.
I've also noted that some of the songs on Clear Channel's HD2 streams have very poor sound quality. I'm guessing that Matt Jones hasn't been able to find full quality replacements for these.
Posted on June 9, 2010 - 01:41 AM # -
Are there any currents or recurrents?
Posted on June 9, 2010 - 01:47 AM # -
The most recent song I heard while listening to 107.5 HD2, was from 1990.
Posted on June 9, 2010 - 01:49 AM # -
"What's this about KYCH running higher power?"
Did I get the math wrong? KYCH, KGON, KKCW, and KKRZ are all 100kW analog, so their HD transmitters are allowed (before the power increase) to transmit 1kW. Are there HD stations transmitting more power than this?
Posted on June 9, 2010 - 08:44 AM # -
"Now that I've spent some time listening to 107.5 HD2, I can confirm that the format isn't actually Urban AC. I would classify it as Rhythmic Oldies."
I swear I heard a lot of old obscure R&B songs from the 60's and 70's for the first couple of days. Now I'm hearing a mix of soul and dance songs from the 70's and 80's.
This format overlaps "Funkytown" somewhat which has a mix of recent dance hits with popular and forgotten dance songs going back to early (74-75) disco.
Posted on June 9, 2010 - 08:55 AM # -
Digital transmission standards have some well defined minimum signal-to-noise ratio that they need in order to work. That signal-to-noise ratio is defined by both the modulation technique and the amount of data error correction that is used. Radiogeek and semoochie are both right in that the viewer (or listener) is totally unaware of RF noise in the received signal, to a certain point.
My question is, does anyone know of any audio samples or images that compare how analog transmissions standards would hold up at the most extreme noise conditions that their digital counterparts can handle? For example, how much snow does a NTSC picture have when the signal-to-noise ratio is 16dB (the minimum required for reliable ATSC reception)? I am sure that somebody out there must have performed these tests under controlled laboratory conditions.
Posted on June 9, 2010 - 10:53 AM # -
I've never read of any tests under laboratory conditions but around 2003 some people on the AVS Forum were comparing the signal strengths of various digital and analog television signals they were receiving and showed the results. They were using professional equipment to calculate and compare the strength of the signals they were receiving.
One result someone posted showed that the S/N ratio of a 100% reliable ATSC signal (no drop outs) was only able to produce an NTSC picture that was so snowy you couldn't even read the phone number on the bottom of the screen. These were with first or second generation ATSC receivers too.
Posted on June 9, 2010 - 12:54 PM # -
"One result someone posted showed that the S/N ratio of a 100% reliable ATSC signal (no drop outs) was only able to produce an NTSC picture that was so snowy you couldn't even read the phone number on the bottom of the screen. These were with first or second generation ATSC receivers too."
So what went wrong? Before the analog shutdown (from Hillsboro) I was able to consistently pull in a decent picture from KOAC ch 7 Corvallis and a slightly snowy (but watchable) picture from KVAL ch 13 Eugene, using a 10 element high-band Yagi mounted only about 20 ft AGL. After the digital transition and analog shutdown both stations ended up transmitting their digital content on their original channels (7&13). I can't detect these transmissions, even on days when the tropo is favorable (as indicated by enhancement of the FM band signals).
Posted on June 9, 2010 - 01:25 PM # -
Should you be expecting to receive Corvallis and Eugene television stations in Hillsboro?
Some VHF stations had to reduce their power when they switched to ATSC since it doesn't need as much power for equivalent NTSC coverage. Did KOAC and KVAL reduce their power? KOAC is only 18.1 kW and KVAL is only 30.6 kW.
This is also dependent on the receiver. My fourth generation ATSC receiver is a lot more sensitive than my first generation. What receiver are you using?
Posted on June 9, 2010 - 02:53 PM # -
One result someone posted showed that the S/N ratio of a 100% reliable ATSC signal (no drop outs) was only able to produce an NTSC picture that was so snowy you couldn't even read the phone number on the bottom of the screen.
I am a little bit skeptical of these results because 16 dB corresponds to a voltage ratio of about 6.3:1, so the video signal would be a good bit stronger than the noise. However, I would be interested in looking at the screenshots, if they're still available somewhere.
Posted on June 9, 2010 - 03:11 PM #
Reply »
You must log in to post.