feedback.pdxradio.com » Portland Radio

First Portable HD Radio

(28 posts)

  1. jr_tech

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    Well, it looks as if Best Buy house brand (Insignia) has beat the Zune to the portable HD marketplace...

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10284790-1.html

    Those low power HD chips took a long time...Is anybody still interested?

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 10:10 AM #
  2. missing_kskd

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    And it's $50!

    I'm thinking I might want one. First unit in a while that actually got me thinking about that. Having a portable is a nice alternative to streaming.

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 10:15 AM #
  3. DarkStar

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    Unfortunately the radio just supports FM... I was really looking forward to a nice portable HD radio that supported FM & AM...

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 12:01 PM #
  4. Alfredo_T

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    Wow! There is no AM band reception at all on this radio--not even analog AM. On top of that, the battery is not intended to be user-replaceable. If there were an AM/FM unit that ran on standard sized cells (such as AAA) in this price range, I might be tempted.

    EDIT-ADD: There was one very insightful comment posted to the review linked at the beginning of this page (scroll down a bit to see it). That comment was to the effect that 20-30 years ago, equipment reviews like those found in _Stereo_Review_, _Audio_, or similar publications always included some specifications based on test measurements conducted by the reviewers. Thus, one could shop around for the most sensitive tuner, the amplifier with the lowest distortion, the turntable with the least wow & flutter, etc. Laboratory tests seem to not be a part of contemporary reviews, with performance being rated in subjective terms (i.e. "audio quality is good but not great").

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 01:01 PM #
  5. jr_tech

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    I thought that it was interesting that former poster on this site "Pocket Radio" is still plugging his HD radio is a Farce web site using yet another handle, on that same comment section. The man just does not give up, and to some extent may be correct about AM HD.

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 01:47 PM #
  6. Alfredo_T

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    I had glossed over "Pocket Radio's" comments. I looked again and found them. What in the world does he mean when he says, "but that Siport chip is for music playback-mode only, not live HD Radio reception!"

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 02:18 PM #
  7. jr_tech

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    Hard to tell... He might be trying to say that the advertised battery life was not measured when the chip was used in HD radio mode:

    http://www.siport.com/

    But it is not clear to me that this chip is anything but a receiver... wonder if it can do DTV audio?

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 02:26 PM #
  8. Alfredo_T

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    From my reading of what is on the SiPort page, this device is a HD radio demodulator IC that has a built-in VHF front-end for FM broadcast and weather band reception. It also supports HD broadcasts on the AM band with the addition of an external front-end. Unfortunately, SiPort appears to be one of those companies that only does business with OEMs that agree to their terms (including signing non-disclosure agreements to receive data sheets and other technical documents). Hobbyists need not apply here!

    (Silicon Labs is another maker of all-in-one radio receiver chips with similar policies regarding their data sheets.)

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 03:55 PM #
  9. missing_kskd

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    I think pocket is spot on with AM HD.

    IMHO, it's still born, and I've totally detailed why. However, that time has passed and now it's all about how to leverage the HD in ways that make sense.

    Most all of those options I see having a lot of value apply to the FM band, meaning I actually wouldn't miss the AM band on this radio at all!

    If I want good AM, there are radios for that and that's just how it is. A digital one just isn't gonna be one of them. Not for technical reasons, but for business ones. The value add is on FM.

    What gets me about pocket is his absolutely BAD advocacy. Ugh...

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 03:59 PM #
  10. Alfredo_T

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    I have become very leery of the marketing-heavy approach that SiPort, Silicon Labs, etc. take toward these "product briefs" that are posted on their websites. Although SiPort says that their IC will receive AM with the addition of an "external tuner," they provide no details about what is needed.

    I think that it is possible that Insignia considered putting AM on this radio, but the complexity of the additional AM tuner circuitry was too high for an entry level device like this. Or, it is possible that they built prototypes with AM tuners built-in, but in field testing, they found that receiving AM stations in HD was not reliable (AM HD seems to require a fairly high signal-to-noise ratio in order for the radio to stay in HD mode). I think that the more likely reason is the former, which is largely a business decision. In my opinion, a FM-only portable seems like an incomplete product, so I will certainly refrain from buying until somebody develops a competing AM/FM model. When that happens, I will certainly try before I buy.

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 04:13 PM #
  11. jr_tech

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    Since they made some compromises to achieve a small form factor (no battery door, use of higher energy density Li battery), perhaps they simply decided that there was not a compelling reason to allocate the space necessary for a decent AM loopstick antenna, in order to provide reception of a band that few would miss.

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 04:37 PM #
  12. Alfredo_T

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    That is probably an even better explanation, as it seems that they were trying to design a device that people could use in the same settings as Apple's famous MP3 players (the Insignia even comes with an armband, just like that Apple media player).

    I just had a reality check looking at some other reviews of this radio. These reviews are pretty savage: most of them immediately shoot the radio down as being a product that has no market. One says, "unless you are a big radio fan," don't waste your time and money on this. Other points made in these reviews are that this radio is an unnecessary product because many phone handsets already feature FM reception and that virtually nobody is going to care about HD Radio until it becomes a standard feature in MP3 players. Yet another review says that this device will "be at the bottom of a drawer before you know it." Ouch!

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 05:01 PM #
  13. jr_tech

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    "HD Radio has always appealed to me, but I’m thinking the opportunity for it is passing. I realize not everyone wants to carry a phone or a digital audio player with pre-loaded music, but there are so many other options today: Slacker, Pandora, and even satellite radio. More vehicles are getting configured with easy-to-use auxiliary jacks, USB ports and Bluetooth, too. Is it too late for HD Radio to become a major player?"

    http://jkontherun.com/2009/07/13/portable-hd-radio/

    Perhaps the time has passed

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 05:18 PM #
  14. Alfredo_T

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    At least at the current time, you can't take Slacker, Pandora, or satellite radio out on a walk. I'm starting to think that this product might serve a niche market (like those people who are fans of their local NPR affiliates and the extra subchannels offered there). Perhaps some of these reviews are a bit too savage.

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 05:26 PM #
  15. jr_tech

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    "At least at the current time, you can't take Slacker, Pandora, or satellite radio out on a walk"

    iPhone and many other 3G devices?

    Posted on July 15, 2009 - 05:37 PM #
  16. jr_tech

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  17. Notalent

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    one could use this device to plug into the aux input of the in dash stereo that many newer cars have. This way one would not have to purchase and install an in dash car tuner...

    many new cars have the integrated stereo system so the in dash replacement is no longer an option so this would be good for that use.

    Then you could have OPB Music in your car... At least when their stream is actually up.

    Posted on July 16, 2009 - 10:26 AM #
  18. Alfredo_T

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    Doh! I have just shown my ignorance in not knowing that it is practical to use 3G devices to access streaming services like Pandora. Some of the reviews linked in this thread contain comparisons between the reliability of HD Radio reception on this portable versus using 3G devices to receive Internet streams. Moreover, I have lost sight of how intense the competition is between these different delivery technologies. I deserve a thousand lashes with a wet noodle.

    Posted on July 16, 2009 - 10:41 AM #
  19. jr_tech

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    whap! whap! ok, thats enough, the noodle broke

    Actually, I think that the 3G would run into serious problems if everybody turned off their car radios tomorrow and tried to stream... I am not sure that the internet or the 3G providers could handle the load

    I am sorta "old technology" myself on this front... my "mobile streamer" consists of a Cricket dongle plugged into a small laptop which provides audio to my car radio through one of those old CASSETTE adapter attachments. I am not likely to buy a newer car to get an input jack.

    Posted on July 16, 2009 - 11:34 AM #
  20. missing_kskd

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    I used to do Pandora all the time!

    Just record it in nice 1 hour chunks, then carry it. Most portable media players today are large enough to not even worry about transcoding it.

    The whole "live" element doesn't get any play for me with Pandora. There is no mind on the other end. Just rules. Good rules, but rules. That means there is no advantage to streaming it in the moment, other than if you are where you can stream it, that happens easily.

    Queue up a few hours and consume them when there is no stream option. All works the same, and you can rewind!

    Posted on July 16, 2009 - 07:52 PM #
  21. Alfredo_T

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    Oh, what the hell! Maybe I'll bring up pandora but transmit the audio on AM to add some familiar "vintage-ness" to the whole equation.

    Actually, the last time that I listened to Pandora was over a year ago. I was working late into the night in the office of a non-profit. Suddenly, the Pandora music stopped playing, and the computer displayed a message that said something like, "Please create a free user profile to continue using Pandora." At that point, I got cold feet at the prospect of being asked for contact information in order to use something that is supposedly free.

    Posted on July 16, 2009 - 11:06 PM #
  22. I went to Best Buy, and picked up the Insignia portable HD Radio. In Salem, it easily locked on to all of the Portland HD stations. For only $49.99, this palm-sized tuner is remarkable! Yesterday morning, I received 94.7 KNRK (analog) in Eugene!

    Posted on August 1, 2009 - 03:49 AM #
  23. missing_kskd

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    Nice!!!

    Alfredo, I think that's actually pretty funny. Let me know when you've got it on air, and I'll do a drive by for the warm fuzzy!

    KPAN -- Playing the best of what somebody else wants to hear most.

    Posted on August 1, 2009 - 10:30 AM #
  24. jr_tech

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    the_radio_guy said:

    "this palm-sized tuner is remarkable!"

    Great! I think that the lesson that the designers have learned is that HD receivers need to have VERY good performance specs in order to perform adequately on the weaker HD signals.

    An example of this is the tiny $100 Sony XDR-F1HD tuner, which has replaced several much more expensive FM tuners that I used for FM DXing. Some comments about the XDR-F1HD on this DXers site (under DX MACHINES! on the left hand side):

    http://fmdx.usclargo.com/

    Right now my favorite portable for FM DX is an Eton E5, which is superb... It will be interesting to compare to the Best Buy Insignia HD portable.

    I called Best Buy the day I made the original post, and they were not in stock at that time, did you have any problem finding one?

    Posted on August 1, 2009 - 11:03 AM #
  25. >>"Yesterday morning, I received 94.7 KNRK (analog) in Eugene!"

    Must have been unusually good tropo conditions. I have just barely picked up 94.7 and 93.1 a couple of times with my Sony XDR-F1HD, but not very listenable.

    I took my HD tuner on a trip to the Bay Area last week and I was underwhelmed with the HD performance when using rabbit ears.

    My first Bay Area vantage point was Danville (Contra Costa County) where most San Francisco stations and a few from Sacramento provide decent analog reception. I could only get reliable HD on two or three SF stations, and semi-reliable reception on a couple of others. One Sacramento station was reliable and two others were HD most of the time. Some SF stations were rock solid analog, but with no sign whatsoever of HD. I suspect those are stations with on-channel boosters covering Contra Costa Co that have not been upgraded to pass digital.

    My results in Fremont (east Bay) were substantially better with most SF and San Jose stations that are class B (50kw) being reliable or mostly in HD. Class A and lower powered non-comms were unreliable to non-existent in HD even though they are supposedly 60dBu or better over Fremont.

    At both locations the slightest multipath would kill the HD, which seems to defeat one of the purposes of HD. The "HD Radio" system just doesn't appear very robust to me.

    Posted on August 1, 2009 - 12:54 PM #
  26. "Sangean Cancels Production Plans for DT600-HD"

    "Sangean now says it’s not planning to introduce an HD Radio portable that was to have included analog AM in the U.S. this year. Responding to a question from Radio World, a Sangean spokesman said the company decided not to go ahead with production of the DT-600 HD; he could not say why. The spokesman also said Amazon is not accepting pre-orders for the unit, as we had reported. Sangean had not answered Radio World's query at the time that story was published. IBiquity had a prototype of the unit in its booth at CES and also at the spring NAB Show."

    http://www.radioworld.com/article.aspx?articleId=104210&mnu_id=14

    These portables must be selling like hotcakes - LOL! The spokesman from Sangean probably signed iBiquity's nondisclosure agreement not to say anything negative about HD Radio.

    Posted on October 5, 2010 - 05:04 PM #
  27. semoochie

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    This is not a story about HD Radio. It's about AM radio! They probably weren't satisfied with reception that they were getting with too small an antenna.

    Posted on October 5, 2010 - 09:06 PM #
  28. scowl

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    Another thing to remember is that AM HD Radio does not provide anything more than digital versions of the same programming as AM analog radio. There hasn't been a lot of demand for new analog AM receivers so it's not surprising that the demand for AM HD Radio receivers have been low as well.

    Posted on October 9, 2010 - 05:58 AM #

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