» Politics and other things

Divided and angry

(17 posts)
  • Started 1 year ago by Andy_brown
  • Latest reply from Andy_brown

  1. Andy_brown

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    because they clearly have their heads up their ass for so long they get high on the smell and can't do without it.

    Republican Party seems as divided, angry as ever

    The Republican Party seems as divided and angry as ever.
    Infighting has penetrated the highest levels of the House GOP leadership. Long-standing geographic tensions have increased, pitting endangered Northeastern Republicans against their colleagues from other parts of the country. Enraged tea party leaders are threatening to knock off dozens of Republicans who supported a measure that raised taxes on the nation's highest earners.
    "People are mad as hell. I'm right there with them," Amy Kremer, chairman of the Tea Party Express, said late last week, declaring that she has "no confidence" in the party her members typically support. Her remarks came after GOP lawmakers agreed to higher taxes but no broad spending cuts as part of a deal to avert the "fiscal cliff."
    "Anybody that voted 'yes' in the House should be concerned" about primary challenges in 2014, she said.
    At the same time, one of the GOP's most popular voices, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, blasted his party's "toxic internal politics" after House Republicans initially declined to approve disaster relief for victims of Superstorm Sandy. He said it was "disgusting to watch" their actions and he faulted the GOP's most powerful elected official, House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio.
    The GOP's internal struggles to figure out what it wants to be were painfully exposed after Mitt Romney's loss to President Barack Obama on Nov. 6, but they have exploded in recent days. The fallout could extend well beyond the party's ability to win policy battles on Capitol Hill. It could hamper Republicans as they examine how to regroup and attract new voters after a disheartening election season.
    To a greater degree than the Democrats, the Republican Party has struggled with internal divisions for the past few years. But these latest clashes have seemed especially public and vicious.
    "It's disappointing to see infighting in the party," said Ryan Williams, a Republican operative and former Romney aide. "It doesn't make us look like we're in a position to challenge the president and hold him accountable to the promises he made."
    What's largely causing the dissension? A lack of a clear GOP leader with a single vision for the party.
    Republicans haven't had a consistent standard-bearer since President George W. Bush left office in 2008 with the nation on the edge of a financial collapse. His departure, along with widespread economic concerns, gave rise to a tea party movement that infused the GOP's conservative base with energy. The tea party is credited with broad Republican gains in the 2010 congressional elections, but it's also blamed for the rising tension between the pragmatic and ideological wings of the party — discord that festers still.
    It was much the same for Democrats in the late 1980s before Bill Clinton emerged to win the White House and shift his party to the political center.
    2012 presidential nominee Romney never fully captured the hearts of his party's most passionate voters. But his tenure atop the party was short-lived; since Election Day, he's disappeared from the political world.
    Those Republican leaders who remain engaged — Christie, Boehner, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus — are showing little sign of coming together.
    Those on the GOP's deep bench of potential 2016 presidential contenders, including Florida Sen. Marco Rubio, Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan, and Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, have begun staking out their own, sometimes conflicting ideas for the party.
    Over the short term at least, the party's divisions probably will continue to be exposed.
    Obama has outlined a second-term agenda focused on immigration and gun control; those are issues that would test Republican solidarity even in good times. Deep splits already exist between Republican pragmatists and the conservative base, who oppose any restrictions on guns or allowances for illegal immigrants.
    It's unclear whether Obama can exploit the GOP fissures or whether the Republican dysfunction will hamper him. With Boehner unable to control his fractured caucus, the White House is left wondering how to deal with the House on any divisive issue.
    Fiscal issues aren't going away, with lawmakers were agree on a broad deficit-reduction package. The federal government reached its borrowing limit last week, so Congress has about two months or three months to raise the debt ceiling or risk a default on federal debt. Massive defense and domestic spending cuts are set to take effect in late February. By late March, the current spending plan will end, raising the possibility of a government shutdown.
    Frustrated conservative activists and GOP insiders hope that the continued focus on fiscal matters will help unite the factions as the party pushes for deep spending cuts. That fight also may highlight Democratic divisions because the party's liberal wing vehemently opposes any changes to Social Security or Medicare
    "Whenever you lose the White House, the party's going to have ups and downs," said Republican strategist Ron Kaufman. "My guess is when the spending issues come up again, the Democrats' warts will start to show as well."
    The GOP's fissures go beyond positions on issues. They also are geographical.
    Once a strong voice in the party, moderate Republicans across the Northeast are nearly extinct. Many of those who remain were frustrated in recent days when Boehner temporarily blocked a vote on a disaster relief bill.
    Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., said campaign donors in the Northeast who give the GOP after the slight "should have their head examined."
    Boehner, who just won a second term as speaker, quickly scheduled a vote on a narrower measure for Friday after the new Congress convened, and it rushed out a $9.7 billion measure to help pay flood insurance claims.
    Weary Republican strategists are trying to be hopeful about the GOP's path ahead, and liken the current situation to party's struggles after Obama's 2008 election. At the time, some pundits questioned the viability of the Republican Party. But it came roaring back two years later, thanks largely to the tea party.
    "If we have learned anything from the fiscal cliff fiasco, conservatives discovered we need to stand firm, and stand together, on our principles from beginning to end," said Republican strategist Alice Stewart. "It's frustrating to see the GOP drop the ball and turn a position of true compromise into total surrender. The Democrats succeeded in their strategy of divide and conquer."

    Well, this couldn't happen to a more deserving group of fascists. You reap what you sow, so they say.

    Posted on January 5, 2013 - 03:02 PM #
  2. Andy, you changed the headline. You conveniently left out the word "seems". Would that make you a troll? And, we know who added the editorial tag.

    Posted on January 5, 2013 - 03:05 PM #
  3. Andy_brown

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    New York Republican Rep. Peter King went to war with his Republican colleagues on Wednesday after leaders spiked a Hurricane Sandy relief bill, calling on New Yorkers to stop all donations to GOP House members.

    “These Republicans have no problem finding New York when they’re out raising millions of dollars,” King said on Fox News. “They’re in New York all the time filling their pockets with money from New Yorkers. I’m saying right now, anyone from New York or New Jersey who contributes one penny to congressional Republicans is out of their minds. Because what they did last night was put a knife in the back of New Yorkers and New Jerseyans. It was an absolute disgrace.”

    Posted on January 5, 2013 - 03:44 PM #
  4. Andy, you keep leaving things out. You left out why the bill was "spiked". It was so loaded with unrelated "pork" that the bulk of the money went to other things.

    Posted on January 5, 2013 - 03:54 PM #
  5. edust1958

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    Is there is any real difference between "Divided and Angry" and "Seems Divided and Angry"?

    For most people (unfortunately) perception is reality... so whether or not the state of the internal politics of Republic Party is really in disarray or only appears or "seems" to be in disarray, the interpretation for most people is the same -- the Republic Party is internally in disarray.

    I think the best thing would be for the Republican Party to split along its deep ideological lines -- perhaps if there was a resulting party with a strong fiscal conservative views but libertarian social views, their candidate (if they weren't totally loony) would get my vote.

    Posted on January 5, 2013 - 03:57 PM #
  6. Andy_brown

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    Not only are the string pullers in the GOP at war with each other, they are causing a huge schism in their base, separating T party assholes from just the normal run of the mill ignorant conservatives as well as the almost sane moderates. Like I said, couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of cretins.

    GOP's obstructionism is suicide strategy

    A suicide bomber walks into a bar. He shouts at the bartender, "Gimme the money, or I blow this place to bits!" The worried bartender hands him a wad of cash, and the bomber departs.
    The next day, the suicide bomber returns to the same bar. He shouts at the bartender, "Gimme the money, or I blow this place to bits!"
    "Are you nuts?" answers the bartender. "If I give you money every day, I'll go out of business. Plus, you're scaring away the customers."
    "I tell you what," replies the bomber, "Gimme the money, and I won't come back until the day after tomorrow."

    Welcome to the art of negotiation, Republican style. Since the election of 2010, the United States has narrowly averted three Republican-built suicide bombs: one government shutdown, one debt default and one fiscal cliff. We have two more scheduled for February: across-the-board spending cuts and another debt ceiling expiration.
    The Republicans' suicide strategy is a relatively new addition to American politics. Newt Gingrich pioneered the first government shutdown in 1995. It was so disastrous that no one tried it again for 16 years. In the meantime, Republicans pursued a more traditional method known as the democratic process. They campaigned for election and took control of the White House, Senate and House of Representatives. From 2001 to 2006, the dominant Republicans passed plenty of conservative legislation. (They did not, however, reduce spending or balance the budget.)
    Borger: Fiscal cliff was bound to collapse
    When their golden era came to an end, many Republicans refused to accept that the popular will had turned against them and resorted to obstructionist tactics. In the Senate, they have filibustered 391 Democratic bills in the past six years, culminating last month in Minority Leader Mitch McConnell's historic filibuster of his own bill. The Democrats are no strangers to the filibuster, of course, but they managed only 201 in their six years of minority status.

    Yet the Senate is a model of effective government compared with the House, now the only Republican-dominated branch of the federal government. Frustrated by their inability to get conservative legislation past the Democratic-controlled Senate and White House, congressional Republicans have revived the "suicide bomb."
    The key to the suicide bomb strategy is to convince people that members of the conservative wing of the Republican Party are crazy enough to wreck the economy if they don't get their way. Democratic leaders seem to believe them. Like the hapless bartender, they keep tossing the Republicans wads of cash -- spending cuts and tax breaks -- in order to spare the country from a debt default, shutdown or recession.

    But this bomber will not be satisfied by a few payoffs. The Republicans continue to use every opportunity to extract concessions by threatening to wreck the economy ... again. When Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner proposed a permanent debt ceiling extension during the last round of negotiations, McConnell reportedly laughed in his face. The suicide bomb has become the Republicans' most effective weapon. Why would they give that up?
    President Obama was slow to see the pattern, but after three nail-biting suicide negotiations in two years, he seems to have finally realized that he cannot continue to encourage the bomb threats with concessions. As attention turned to the next debt ceiling battle, he declared, "While I will negotiate over many things, I will not have another debate with this Congress over whether or not they should pay the bills that they've already racked up through the laws that they passed."
    Hopefully, he will maintain this resolve. The endless threats not only enable Republicans to subvert the democratic process, they hurt the country. Even if the Republicans never actually fulfill their ultimatums, the anxiety provoked by such threats damages the economy by creating uncertain business conditions. To extend the metaphor: The suicide bomber is scaring away the customers.
    So what will happen when Obama finally says enough is enough? Is the country destined to go BOOM?
    Avlon: Chris Christie drops bomb on GOP leaders
    Fortunately not. The joke has a hidden punchline. It turns out that the suicide bomber is a part-owner of the bar. The folks who will lose the most if the bomb goes off are the investors, bankers and businesspeople who still retain large stakes in the Republican Party. When the Republicans threatened to let the government default in 2011, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and other industry advocates objected with growing concern. If the Democrats refuse to negotiate this time around, industry advocates will not sit idly while the party they finance deliberately ruins their businesses.
    But what if the conservative Republicans are really that crazy? What if they are so committed to their agenda and dismissive of their constituents that they will allow unemployment to rise, interest rates to skyrocket, government services to disappear, seniors to lose their Social Security checks and other catastrophic consequences of debt defaults and government shutdowns?
    If that is the case, however unlikely, than we will only have to survive until the next election, at which point the Republicans will discover that suicide bombings produce only one guaranteed casualty: the bomber himself.

    Posted on January 5, 2013 - 03:58 PM #
  7. Andrew

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    Divided or not, how does this matter in 2014? Republicans didn't lose many seats in 2012 even in a year with high turn-out via Obama, after two years of Republican obstructionism. Aren't Congressional districts so rigged now in Republican favor that their antics don't much matter?

    Posted on January 5, 2013 - 04:13 PM #
  8. Andy_brown

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    "how does this matter in 2014?"

    Fixing the gerrymandering will take time, as it did take time to get to that situation in the first place. Historically, that has happened back and forth depending who is in power in state legislatures.

    Federally speaking, it matters a lot. Without a common "platform" to which pursue, the House majority will end up frequently finding itself at odds with each other more so than with the opposite party. Some, to what extent is uncertain, of the legislation that's going to go through will pattern itself after the vote on the taxes (fiscal cliff) where stuff passes with D and some moderate R votes. Not everything. It will be interesting to see how the debt ceiling standoff plays out, but with a divided majority in the House, it's unlikely they will get what they want and again be forced to compromise or risk their chances in 2014. Sure, in some states the T party is entrenched, but their ranks have been thinned as a result of their own behavior and for them to threaten other Republicans with their re-election promise to compete and sweep them out is largely rhetoric, since they are no longer the sweethearts of the party but rather the obstacle to getting something done. Plus, with heavier taxes on the wealthy the T Party is in trouble, since the wealthy are their biggest financial backers. There is talk that these wealthy PACs are going to dump the T Party and start courting the Ron Paul Millenials in an attempt to give the GOP a complete makeover. They sure need one, that is a fact.

    Posted on January 5, 2013 - 04:50 PM #
  9. NoParty

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    I wonder if Deane has been taking his Metamucil lately?

    Posted on January 6, 2013 - 12:27 PM #
  10. Andy_brown

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    Deane: "you changed the headline . . . Would that make you a troll?"

    The bOregonian ran the very same AP story this morning, page 1, and they changed the headline, too.

    So, I guess they are a "troll" as well.

    Really, Deane, is that the best defense of the GOP you can offer up? Accuse everyone else of trolling?

    Puh-leeeeeze. Maybe you do need a bit of a laxative.

    Posted on January 6, 2013 - 12:33 PM #
  11. john72ss

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    theres no doubt the republicans are angry, they had a good chance to defeate obama,(and should have) but blew it when they chose the wrong candidate. so who would be surprised they are fighting within more now than ever. ive said for years, america needs a third party, maybe the time is finally coming?

    Posted on January 6, 2013 - 12:35 PM #
  12. "Really, Deane, is that the best defense of the GOP you can offer up?"

    Defending the GOP is not my job.

    Posted on January 6, 2013 - 12:40 PM #
  13. Brianl

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    "Defending the GOP is not my job."

    Maybe not, but you sure do it an awful lot.

    Posted on January 6, 2013 - 02:46 PM #
  14. edselehr

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    I think that everything the Republicans planned to do after the 2012 election hinged on putting Romney in office. Absent that lynchpin occurrence, the 2013 conservative playbook doesn't work, and they quite literally are lost in the woods.

    Posted on January 6, 2013 - 04:10 PM #
  15. motozak3

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    From the title, I thought this was going to be a thread about this forum....

    Posted on January 6, 2013 - 10:31 PM #
  16. NoParty

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    "Really, Deane, is that the best defense of the GOP you can offer up?"

    Defending the GOP is not my job.


    Your kidding right??????????

    Posted on January 7, 2013 - 12:01 AM #
  17. Andy_brown

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    "From the title, I thought this was going to be a thread about this forum...."

    There is some truth to that postulate.

    But I believe that would be only a reflection of the larger divide in Washington, D.C.

    Posted on January 7, 2013 - 12:28 AM #

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