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AHCA to increase claims costs by.....

(48 posts)

  1. NoParty

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    32% and counting. Looks like the insurance companies are still going to make a killing!

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/26/study-health-care-overhaul-to-increase-claims-costs-by-32-percent/

    Posted on March 26, 2013 - 09:07 PM #
  2. missing_kskd

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    Yes, there are not adequate cost controls in the bill. The exchanges remain to be seen. That movement is next year.

    Private insurers have been operating on about a 30 percent margin. The ACA mandated they cut costs and keep it to 20. Since that time, they have worked to get more things classified as care costs, have introduced lots of new fees, etc...

    If we want to cut the cost of access to health care, we are going to have to nut up and either regulate the private insurers, or relegate them to selling value added plans instead of primary care plans.

    This won't be an easy transition. They will make it as painful as possible because they are taking a ton of money off the top, mind you only providing access, not adding any real value. That's a sure thing, nice gig and it runs in conflict with our national goal of affordable health care.

    Secondly, we've not yet addressed the cost of care DELIVERY. That is allowing things like Medicare being able to bulk buy and bargain for low rates, where right now they must buy at retail, which costs us a lot. Health care DELIVERY is filled with these kind of things and we must deal with them, or pay a ton of money.

    Our care costs are twice that of the second most expensive system in the world, France. Our outcomes are worse, we don't insure everybody and the average citizen faces costs and risk that are many times that of a citizen in most other developed nations.

    Did you know we wrote universal care into the Iraqi constitution? Yes, they will build out a nationalized system that will perform on par with many, yet we can't get that here.

    The ACA is a good start on an ugly problem. Much more remains to be done. Remember that. A lot of people are going to try and use the cost as a reason to not do it, leaving us without primary coverage for all Americans and at a disadvantage globally --a disadvantage that will keep us from real economic recovery and a sustainable economic future.

    ...unless we start accepting that people are going to die early, suffer and be bankrupt because we think that's more humane and cost effective for profit solution. Somebody somewhere will take your premium dollars, if you can even pay them at $10 / hour, keep them, deny you all the care they can, keep the rest and live well and with coverage on par with most of the rest of the world who doesn't do that to their own people.

    Posted on March 26, 2013 - 09:28 PM #
  3. Skybill9

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    "...there are not adequate cost controls in the bill."

    There nothing adequate in the bill.

    Posted on March 30, 2013 - 04:08 PM #
  4. missing_kskd

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    Sure there is! You just don't want to think about it much. I hear that's chronic out there and is there any wonder things don't get better?

    None man. Think about that some.

    Posted on March 30, 2013 - 05:15 PM #
  5. Andrew

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    Skybill: There nothing adequate in the bill.

    So you like it that the insurance companies can deny you coverage due to a pre-existing condition?

    You like it that people can go bankrupt from medical bills - EVEN IF THEY ARE INSURED?

    The Affordable Care Act prevented those things. Most people agree with those parts of the bill, even if you happen prefer things the way they were (double digit increases in insurance premiums with no changes in benefits etc.)

    Posted on March 30, 2013 - 06:24 PM #
  6. One major point is...the President has been lying about this to the American public for the last 4 1/2 years ..until now..until the last several months..touting decreases and savings..and it isnt true..never was..also never was endorsed by the CBO for pete's sake..all smoke and mirrors to promote what we now have and will be 'getting'..like it or not..

    NO such thing as a free lunch fellow babies...and most us of knew it ..I knew it..but of course the candy assed politicians ( the majority Democrats) ..most of them..including Lord Obama sugar coat it all and make it all swallow better...'lets first pass the bill , so we can see whats in it"...mentality.....welcome to the new pablam fed American Citizenry..

    This matrix of private insurers and mandated Health insurance via Pooling isnt going to work right...Canada only made it work by instituting single payer AND optional private coverage. And of course we know the definition of what " work " is...as in...denial of many proceedures..to the point of many of their citizens " heading south "..for Medicine that they cant get in a timely fashion in Canada.

    Posted on March 30, 2013 - 06:49 PM #
  7. NoParty

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    Skybill ignorantly said>>>
    There nothing adequate in the bill.

    Well, just like a CONer you haven't read the bill.

    ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK!

    Thanks for being a narrow minded CONer!

    Posted on March 30, 2013 - 06:55 PM #
  8. missing_kskd

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    You go and ask Canadians whether or not they would trade their coverage for what we get here.

    Nobody lied to anybody. At the time the legislation was produced, the various POSSIBLE options were scored and debated and passed.

    Mind you POSSIBLE options. Doing the right thing WAS NOT POSSIBLE due to dysfunction in Congress. That condition is now worse, MAKING LESS POSSIBLE.

    Between then and now, we have obtained more info, and private insurers have worked hard to avoid actually saving us money too. Don't forget that. They do their best, meeting Wall Street market growth expectations by DENYING CARE WHILE KEEPING THE MONEY.

    If you are pissed about the state of this bill, go look hard at Congress, then go look hard at yourself. What is worth what?

    Lots of Americans need to ask that question. Right now, wedge issues are very expensive. I've been writing it for years.

    This is why those issues are expensive. Nuttery isn't cheap kids.

    Posted on March 30, 2013 - 08:22 PM #
  9. Andrew

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    kennewickman: One major point is...the President has been lying about this to the American public for the last 4 1/2 years

    Or, you are buying into right-wing spin and hearing what you want to hear, not what Obama has really been saying.

    I haven't heard Obama lie about the Affordable Care Act. Ever. If you have a specific example, an in-context quote, not a paraphrase that distorts what he really said, let's hear it.

    Posted on March 30, 2013 - 08:53 PM #
  10. Obama was touting 2500 savings per family ( in 2008, 2009, 2010, and in part of 2011 ) ...its now up to approxamately 3000 per family *increased *costs per year..it has gone the wrong way...oh gee we should have known!

    All BS smoke and mirrors..as far as costs are concerned to say nothing of service issues, availablity etc . This is similar to the Barnum and Bailey circus...but it was fun while we all watching the show ( fun for those who believed Obama and the Dems) ...but now its time to pay the price " and see whats in the bill" so to speak which in essence is...how much do the most of us really have to pay and pay and pay for everyone to have coverage...which in the end or at least at this point doesnt look like everyone will have coverage due to a number or factors that may be difficult to work out in a timely manner..

    You know, I dont mind in theory whereby everyone , whoever they are, any citizen in America can get some basic health coverage...But I resent being told about all the savings per family per year leading up to now, when it is apparent , now, 5 years later that its all BS...It reminds me of going on to a car lot and listening to a bill of goods and then getting down to the brass of it inside the salesmanager's rubber room and really finding out how much you have to pay for that car..etc ..you get the picture..

    From Day one, I never believed all that crap about 'savings'..and Obama said it..I have seen the clips..after clip ..after clip...all BS...our own CBO says it aint true and they having saying it for some time now...go ahead and blame the Insurance companies..but WHO EVER thought they wouldnt do the things they are doing to complicate it all..after all the whole goddamned country is very much about LAWYERS isnt it ? And Health Insurance is about lawyers too and manipulation of the system to benifit their universe..and MONEY and ...its FU@KD' up..the whole system is..I know it and so does anyone else with a half a brain...or the desire to really think it through..and not just take the Kool-Aid..Idealistic *Yes we Can* attitude..and just eat out of the dog dish...'Oh we are going to save all kinds of money doing this"....You bet...

    Why dont they sell it for what it was ..." Suck it up, pay the piper because those of us who pay...will now be paying for those who dont" ..end of story...

    They didnt sell it like that..because it would have never got thru Congress even in the form it finally did, thats why..pure and simple..

    Posted on March 30, 2013 - 09:35 PM #
  11. Andrew

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    kennewickman: Obama was touting 2500 savings per family ( in 2008, 2009, 2010, and in part of 2011 ) ...its now up to approxamately 3000 per family *increased *costs per year..it has gone the wrong way...oh gee we should have known!

    I'll ask again: give us a SPECIFIC QUOTE, not a paraphrase, if you want to accuse Obama of LYING. Otherwise, please stop making things up.

    Posted on March 30, 2013 - 09:53 PM #
  12. duxrule

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    "Obama was touting 2500 savings per family ( in 2008, 2009, 2010, and in part of 2011 ) ...its now up to approxamately 3000 per family *increased *costs per year..it has gone the wrong way...oh gee we should have known!"

    Ask the insurance companies who are running these increases exactly why they are necessary. It's taking advantage of the ACA, not because of requirements in the bill. IOW, the "Free Market" decides to screw over the citizen once again.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 08:06 AM #
  13. Can anyone point to any evidence it's not an overall disaster?

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 08:59 AM #
  14. missing_kskd

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    I will save $2500 easily this year. Thanks Obama!

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:19 AM #
  15. stevethedj

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    Yes, 25 years ago my wife had a large kidney stone. From time of her being in huge pain to treatment it was 24 hours. My wife went to urgent care march 1, 2013. with the same problem. With all the refferals, paperwork and tests and BACKLOG of people needing to see the doctor. My wife just saw the uroligist last thursday. She now has a april 30 appt for treatment with the blaster michine. They hope to get her in sooner. I asked her urilogist why the delay, after telling him about how quick she was treated 25 years ago. He told me. "welcome to Obama care". Now spin that liberals I NEVER voted for Obama or wanted Obama care. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:24 AM #
  16. Andrew

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    Deane: Can anyone point to any evidence it's not an overall disaster?

    Can you point to any evidence that the next Republican president won't be a complete disaster? Care to try to explain why things that haven't happened yet aren't failures?

    Maybe you can ask again 4-5 years after the Affordable Care Act has completely taken effect?

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:26 AM #
  17. stevethedj

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    Liberals, Just keep adding lawers to your tin foil hat. And keep repeating, Obama,Obama, hes our savior.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:29 AM #
  18. Andrew

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    Steve, I hope your wife feels better soon, but anyone who thinks that the delay in seeing a specialist for treatment is due to Obamacare is an idiot. Seriously. These are private insurance companies, not government-run health care agencies. (Though if your wife was on Medicare she'd probably get in sooner would be my guess. Or if she lived in France, under their health care system, she'd likely see the specialist within the week.)

    Blame your insurance company or your health care provider, not Obama.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:31 AM #
  19. stevethedj

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    Well the doctor said"welcome to Obama care" Iwould think he would know.Andrew, thank you for your concern, its been bad.We work all our life and have ins. and watch the free riders get better service.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:34 AM #
  20. Andrew

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    Right, I'm sure one doctor's opinion is all that matters to you, Steve? Just because he happens to agree with you?

    Anecdotal evidence means nothing. I can give you lots of counter-examples to show you how f-ed up the private insurance system was before Obama was even elected. Here's just one: I have one family member who had lung cancer. First doctor said it was terminal - nothing could be done, no point in going to treatment. Family member wanted a second opinion. Insurance company took THREE MONTHS to authorize it! The second doctor had a different opinion and recommended treatment, but by then it was too late. This was 2003. Do you blame Obama for that, too?

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:43 AM #
  21. NoParty

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    StevetheDA said>>>
    Liberals, Just keep adding lawers to your tin foil hat. And keep repeating, Obama,Obama, hes our savior.

    And YOU CONs did the same with Reagan and DUHbya! So what's wrong with the Libs doing the same for Obummer? You extreme right wing fascists are all the same....

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:47 AM #
  22. stevethedj

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    No, the system is broken and getting worse. I hope you sued the first doctor, and sorry for your loss.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:50 AM #
  23. stevethedj

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    If you have followed my posts over the years, you would know I hated little Bush. NP.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:51 AM #
  24. NoParty

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    No, the system is broken and getting worse.

    Thank the PRIVATE insurance companies for that! They've been fucking YOU and hundreds of millions of Americas for 40+ years!

    You CONs are amazing. You'll WASTE TRILLIONS upon TRILLIONS on a worthless war and praise your God and Savior DUHbya but yet won't help out your fellow man. How Christian of you. The Party of God.... LOL!

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:57 AM #
  25. NoParty

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    If you have followed my posts over the years, you would know I hated little Bush. NP.

    If you followed some of the people on here you'll would KNOW that Obummer isn't a savior that's just your party's horseshit rhetoric! Stop believing it!

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:59 AM #
  26. So this :

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/health-premiums-3-065-obama-224300715.html

    This is what I am talking about..my health is good BTW and my son's ( who is now coming up on 25 and I pay for his insurance)..static on the proceedures, tests etc. Two visits to the doc for routine monitoring all in 2012 and so far in 13, thank you very much..and Im not complaining..ok that said...

    My premiums have risen..like most everyone else's..BUT they are going to go a lot higher and I probably wont use it beyond what I already have atleast in the shorter term ( Hopefully)..Follow the *money* promises made by the President and followers...follow the money...smoke and mirrors he sadi for years on this..and only recently has he *stopped*...We even heard this during the last Campaign in 2012..I did..I heard him say it more than once on Campaign stops...in the clips...Barnum and Bailey circus...Jokin' Joe down at Friendly Cheverolet...no different..

    And this is all about monitary issues rather than service...the service issues are yet to come !!We havent got there yet...

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 09:59 AM #
  27. NoParty

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    My premiums have gone up 43% in the last 6 years Kennman and that's insurance through a PRIVATE insurer. It went from FREE (payed for by the business 100%) up until 2009 to $160 a paycheck. THAT'S NO AHCA!!!!

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 10:03 AM #
  28. Andrew

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    Steve: No, the system is broken and getting worse.

    And Republicans want to do NOTHING to fix it, Steve. Their only ideas are to help the health care corporations be more profitable. (Limit monetary damages aka "tort reform" and allow health care to be sold across state lines - that is, the states with the crummiest regulations would attract all the insurance companies.)

    The Affordable Care Act is far from perfect. No one ever claimed it was the holy grail that would magically fix the health care system. But it does a lot of good things. Our health care system will be much better for millions of Americans as a result.

    Here's another anecdote (since you like them): my cousin doesn't have insurance, has a chronic medical condition, and keeps going to the emergency room as his primary care facility. He's even been admitted to the hospital a few times. Of course, he can't afford to pay the huge bills, so the hospital keeps writing them off.

    GUESS WHO COVERS THE COST OF PEOPLE LIKE MY COUSIN, Steve? WE (the people who have insurnace) DO!!!

    My cousin needs a Colonoscopy, probably this year, but he probably can't afford it. Next year, he'll have to get insurance due to the Mandate in Obamacare - either he'll get subsidies or be covered by expanded Medicaid or he'll have to buy it - and he can't be denied coverage due to his pre-existing condition anymore. And he'll be able to get a Colonoscopy for free. It's not "free" to the health care system - but it's CHEAPER for the health care system than writing off emergency room visits and hospital stays for patients who put off treatment!!!!

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 10:04 AM #
  29. NoParty

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    it's CHEAPER for the health care system than writing off emergency room visits and hospital stays for patients who put off treatment!!!!

    AND WON'T PAY ANYWAY!!!!!!!! 1 out of 12 at St. V's and Tuailty in Hillsburito is 1 in 9.... I hate to see numbers at the BIG Hospitals in Portland like OHSU and Providence over off of I-84... WOW!

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 10:10 AM #
  30. Vitalogy

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    My insurance seems to work just fine.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 11:06 AM #
  31. I didnt say it was ACHA...its REALITY ..for all of us still not on Medicare/Medicaid..but our Lord High "Campaigner in Chief" has been going around for years now telling any and all that healthcare costs will go down for families by 2500 dollars a year..when they are going to 3000 dollars a year in the RED..thats a net gain of 5500 dollars..How did this brilliant Professor ever get through with Math 101..or maybe he just listened to his peers in the law Professor Intelligencia...

    read the article..

    " I have a real good bridge over the East River that I can sell you for a hell of a deal"...

    And I dont have any problem with using my insurance either..its just that the Premiums are going up and up..and will go up a helluva lot more..we never had total pay , gratis, healthcare in my system ...was always some to pay for most of us..except some of the single employee only folks..no Spouse or dependants...and im in a Wa State Public School Employee Pool...sooo..

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 12:39 PM #
  32. Andrew

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    kennewickman: I didnt say it was ACHA...its REALITY ..for all of us still not on Medicare/Medicaid..but our Lord High "Campaigner in Chief" has been going around for years now telling any and all that healthcare costs will go down for families by 2500 dollars a year.

    FOR THE THIRD TIME - WHERE/WHEN DID HE SAY THIS????

    Please put up or shut up. Be specific - give us an exact, cited quote, not your right-wing biased paraphrase of what you wanted to hear.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 12:49 PM #
  33. Ok, look at the video clips of him here..

    http://www.redstate.com/2012/09/25/obamacare-promised-2500-decrease-in-cost-for-families-ends-up-as-3000-increase/'

    Dont lecture me about put up or shut for the 3rd post in a row ...you could have just as easily have found these clips somewhere of your choosing..you just like to make controversy and trouble when someone like me isnt just some Obamatron like the majority of those who like to comment in this forum seem to be..

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 12:52 PM #
  34. @Vitalogy = "My insurance seems to work just fine."

    Judging from your posts, everything about you seems to work fine...except your brain.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 01:06 PM #
  35. Skybill9

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    "Well, just like a CONer you haven't read the bill."

    Have you? I doubt it since there are probably no pictures in it.

    99.99% of the politicians haven't read it including the blowhard pelosi.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 01:10 PM #
  36. Skybill9

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    +5000 Deane!

    But what else would you expect but blind folowing from the LIEberals?

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 01:12 PM #
  37. And another thing..listen to those clips...he says PREMIUMS..a 2500 reduction in PREMIUMS..not unfunded ER visits TRIXTER..PREMIUMS ..that is what many or most of us PAY every month..PREMIUMS...not some other nebulous thing..and listen in several of these clips the roaring adulation of the crowd..GEEZUS its like Nuremburg 1938 all over again..

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 01:15 PM #
  38. Andy_brown

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    Health care spending is still going up, but the rate at which it grows year to year has actually been declining for about a decade now.

    This is truly a sea change. Look at Medicare: over the last 43 years, costs per beneficiary grew 2.7 percent faster than the overall economy. That’s why Medicare spending rose from $7.7 billion in 1970 (or 0.7 percent of gross domestic product) to $551 billion in 2012 (almost 4 percent of G.D.P.). But this trend has finally reversed; over the last three years, Medicare costs per person have grown 1.3 percent slower than growth in the overall economy. In January, a Department of Health and Human Services report showed that Medicare spending per beneficiary grew just 0.4 percent in 2012. And last week, the Congressional Budget Office lowered its 10-year Medicare spending projection by $137 billion, because “health care spending has grown much more slowly” than “historical rates would have indicated.”

    This slowdown is not limited to Medicare, nor is it simply the result of belt-tightening in the wake of the Great Recession. Since 2004 — nearly four years before the economic downturn — the rate of health care inflation per person has been just 0.8 percent higher than the growth of the G.D.P. Between 1965 and 1993, for comparison, it was 3.2 percent higher.

    So if the growth of spending is decelerating, why are premiums increasing? First, the big increases were in relatively small parts of the market, among individual and small-business policies. Second, like everyone else in the health care industry, insurance companies are uncertain about the future, particularly about what will happen to their margins when the new exchanges open in October. The natural response to uncertainty is caution, and for insurance companies, the cautious approach is to increase revenue and profits as much as possible in the short term in case Obamacare lowers them in the long term.

    But once the exchanges begin to facilitate competition, this fear should dissipate and premiums should come down.

    Regardless, the good news on health care costs shouldn’t make us complacent. Despite the slowdown, total Medicare spending is still rising, because more and more baby boomers are becoming eligible for the program every day. The number of beneficiaries is projected to grow 3 percent each year. As a result, total Medicare expenditures are projected to rise to over 4 percent of the G.D.P. by 2023 and to 6.7 percent by 2037. This is a looming threat to the nation’s long-term fiscal stability.

    So what more can be done? Here is another piece of good news: there are many common sense reforms that should appeal to both Democrats and Republicans.

    One example is competitive bidding. Historically, the government has effectively set prices through Medicare for wheelchairs, hospital beds and other medical equipment. But a demonstration project begun in 2011 introduced competitive bidding in roughly 100 metropolitan areas to see if market forces could bring down prices. The results have been dramatic. Prices for oxygen equipment went down 41 percent; wheelchairs, 36 percent; hospital beds, 44 percent; and the cost of diabetic testing equipment, like glucose strips, dropped by a whopping 72 percent. And research has shown no adverse effects on beneficiaries.

    The Affordable Care Act will expand competitive bidding for these items to the rest of the country in 2016. But why wait? We should roll it out nationwide next year. And it shouldn’t just be for medical equipment. In his last budget, President George W. Bush recommended expanding competitive bidding for blood tests and other lab procedures. It could also work for X-rays, CT scans, pacemakers — for all medical commodities. This would drive health care spending growth closer to the increase in G.D.P.

    The moderating of health care spending is fantastic news. But now we just have to work harder. If we can push the rate of growth even lower, we will come close to solving our nation’s long-term financial problems.

    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/health-cares-good-news/

    Isn't alway like the right wingers to try and make things look worse than they really are.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 01:25 PM #
  39. Andrew

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    kennewickman, I assumed you were talking about the Affordable Care Act. I've never heard anyone claim it would reduce typical insurance premiums. Those quotes are from the 2008 campaign and refer to Obama's proposed health care plan, which is far from the ACA. Perhaps if Obama's actual plan had been passed and not one that looks more like Hillary's or like the Heritage Foundation's, we'd have had more premium reductions. We'll never know.

    I don't know what Obama meant specifically in 2008 when using the $2500 figure (he didn't say "everyone" and he said "up to $2500), but one study shows that's pretty close to accurate for some people:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/03/12/early-signs-that-obamacare-is-on-the-right-track-to-reduce-costs/

    The study involved uninsured people like my cousin:

    When measuring the change in health care costs for those participants who increased their visits to a primary care physician during the three year period while decreasing the number of visits to the emergency room, the study reveals that, on average, the total annual health care costs per enrollee fell from $8,899 in year one, to a startling $4,569 in year three—an almost 50 percent decline in the cost of health care per individual.

    Sounds like more than $2500 per person to me - but average it out and maybe it's less. Still - a SIGNIFICANT reduction in costs, for people who need the savings. Health care costs ARE going to decline for a lot of Americans under Obamacare, for tens of millions of Americans who were making too much to qualify for Medicaid but could not get or afford insurance. And the millions of insured people who were going bankrupt before Obamacare

    If those people are going to the emergency room less, that's less for the insured people like you and me to have to pick up when the hospitals write it off. Of course, we'll have to wait a few years until the Affordable Care Act has gone fully into effect to see how it's really doing.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 02:08 PM #
  40. Oh wait..ah..Andrew...he said this ALSO on 2012 campaign...YES he DID !! And he only did this when he was confronted over and over about on the trail..so he just went back on his former stump speach with the same numbers oh yes Last FALL..This wasnt just in 2008..those clips are from all years between 2008 to 2012...only NOW has his administration admitted ( about 2 weeks ago) that their numbers are WRONG..for EVERY SINGLE FAMILY IN AMERICA is what he was selling..

    Now, as you say...yes..it will be a SAVINGS for those ONLY who dont have any insurance right now..clever how that works isnt it ?? Clever how that morphs into ...a minority of households..about...20% too 25%..

    Why didnt they just tell us the truth in the first place? Because..even back in 09' when both houses of Congress were controlled by the Dems, they could not have sold it to America if " Oh ah...80 % of households will have 50% increases or greater in PREMIUMS..while 20% of households will realize savings in some form for having Healthcare..

    Fast Eddieism...Hucksterism...Idealism..no problem, the end justifies the means..no different than Nixon..W..or anyother huckster President you might want to use an example ...

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 02:31 PM #
  41. Andrew

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    kennewickman: Oh wait..ah..Andrew...he said this ALSO on 2012 campaign...YES he DID !! And he only did this when he was confronted over and over about on the trail..so he just went back on his former stump speach with the same numbers oh yes Last FALL..This wasnt just in 2008..those clips are from all years between 2008 to 2012..

    Which clips are you talking about? The RedState link you provided above (published 9/25/2012) shows only clips from 2008 and 2007.

    When did Obama make the same $2500 per year claim about the Affordable Care Act? Again - please be specific.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 02:47 PM #
  42. He never refuted it until two weeks ago..certainly never until he got re-elected ..smoke and mirrors..

    They shyed away from Obamacare in the 2012 election...for good reason..

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 03:09 PM #
  43. Andrew

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    So you admit that Obama never claimed the Affordable Care Act would save everyone $2500 on their health insurance costs?

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 04:12 PM #
  44. @ Andy Brown : And isnt it true the way guys like you try to come in with their numbers manipulations to try and justify some Idealogical and theoretical support for a new Healthcare system that really is all about subsidizing those who can produce enough income to support the system from paying taxes and or premium subsidy to carry those who do not or will not...its thats simple..call if for what it is instead of relying on charlatan community organizers to call it otherwise and to sell it as being othewise..

    smoke and mirrors...three ringed circus...

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 04:14 PM #
  45. @ Andrew : What differnce does it make ? They didnt back off on those claims..not until several weeks ago..conveniently enough..I am still looking for a clip in the 2012 concerning this...in any event it was a sham bullshit idiotic claim perpetrated by law professors..his peers..in acadamia...pure bullshit! ...and typical of those who dont live in reality and understand our Capitalist system like it or not...and much of it I have problems with myself..but it pisses me off those who would fire bomb an entire system just to..enable a politcal point...

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 04:20 PM #
  46. Andrew

    vacuum tube
    Posts: 5,080

    Er, it was a 2008 campaign promise you seem to have trouble with (or, really - you just hate Obama and were looking for any excuse to criticize him?). Campaign promises are just that: promises, not "lies" if broken. If you want to start a thread about broken campaign promises, I'll start by reminding you how Reagan promised in 1980 to triple the national debt in eight years...er, I mean, balance the budget in his first term. Or remind you how Reagan in 1980 promised to trade weapons to the Ayatollah for hostages...er, I mean, how he promised never to negotiate with terrorists.

    But it's still not clear Obama "broke" a 2008 campaign promise. We did not get his proposed health care plan - we got one with ideas from Hillary and the Heritage Foundation, so it could surmount a 60 vote filbuster in the Senate (Democrats never had more than 58 Democratic votes in 2009-2010 and then only briefly). The Affordable Care Act still hasn't been fully implemented. We don't know how it's going to affect costs. All I know is: my health care premiums were going up by double digits before Obama took office, and no Republican candidate had any intention of dealing with health care. Obamacare was a step in the right direction.

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 04:31 PM #
  47. NoParty

    vacuum tube
    Posts: 11,719

    Deane said while in his bunker>>>
    Judging from your posts, everything about you seems to work fine...except your brain.

    Coming from Deane that's fucking hilarious! And to have Skybill + that is a laugh riot!

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 05:21 PM #
  48. NoParty

    vacuum tube
    Posts: 11,719

    "Well, just like a CONer you haven't read the bill."

    Have you? I doubt it since there are probably no pictures in it.

    99.99% of the politicians haven't read it including the blowhard pelosi.

    Well I'm on page 66 Sky. Maybe you should try read once an a while for a change. Even if it had pictures you couldn't enjoy them much hard to see with your head up your butt isn't it????

    Posted on March 31, 2013 - 05:24 PM #

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